Newbie 1859 (Game Over)

[pinturicchio]

EBWOP I'm trying to read everything

[pinturicchio]

EBWOP 2.0 scumreading her (although I think that was easy to get because of context)

[ruru]

His posts seemed intended to generate confusion and the 2nd post felt like he was intentionally not clarifying. I think that's more scummy than towny especially when we're starting to approach end of day, there were multiple lurkers, and it seems like there's a decent chance we'll be scrambling at the last minute to agree on a day 1 lynch.

I feel like it's not nearly scummy enough to get scum!Drixx lynched regardless, plus since it's an isolated couple posts rather than trolling throughout the thread, he can always say it was a reaction test whether or not that was his motivation. (eth0s also did a reaction test that I scumread while he was posting less; the difference is that his didn't actively generate confusion which makes it not scummy to me in retrospect.) So yes, I think scum!Drixx has something to gain from it, and town has something to gain by Drixx explaining himself, regardless of his alignment.

What reasons would scum!drixx have to be scummy like that? The only reason I can think of is if his scum mate was being strongly scumread at that time and said scum mate had bigger value than Drixx.
In the first part you agree it was scummy enough to warrant a lynch. In the second part you say it wasn't at first but then in last sentence you say he was scummy enough to get lynched. Can you tell me what you were thinking when placing naked vote on Drixx?

I mentioned the day 1 lynch in the first part because I think stalling/spreading confusion so that town has to make a rushed decision on the lynch is a viable strategy for scum, and Drixx's post could have been that, not because Drixx would be the day 1 lynch.

I was thinking that Oxy's plan makes sense, and regardless of his alignment, the plan itself is pro-town for at least 23 hours, so there is no reason not to go along with it.

The play that could have been made, but wasn't, depends on players collectively bluffing without revealing that they are bluffing.

What makes you sure it was not the case? What players could have to be collectively bluffing?

I'm not sure I understand the first question. For the second question, the bluff is that town is willing to carry through with the lynch.

i got bad pings from eth0s reading through the thread, but i'm not sure how much of that i'd actually be able to verbalize outside of just a few notes written down.

Is this before or after he posted the walls?

One thing i definitely will say is that i think you all may be being a bit too conservative with your votes, and this is coming from someone who's been described as only voting people when i'm ready to instantly murder them. especially before assemble granted the extension, deadline might have crept up without any real wagons formed. i don't know if drixx has touched on this yet, but in my opinion it hurts town to have a gamestate like this with so few people voting – there's less information to look back on and analyze later in the game when we have some flips to work with.

I know right! And it's hard to gain information when half the players are AFK... I mean, wow, it sure is unfortunate that town has been so passive!

VOTE: northsidegal

Can you tell me how you went from not really being suspicious of skitter to 558 where you were entertaining the idea of skitter as scum? Can you point to posts where skitter said something that might have prompted this? I'm still not following this. And my instincts are telling me that there was something wrong about the way skitter was scrutinized for her unvote, mainly because I would have done the same thing (unvoted) if I was in her position.

Mm, I don't find the unvote by itself to be too suspicious; it could easily be a disagreement in how to approach the game. I do find the resulting arguments suspicious because I feel like multiple people have explained to her what the purpose of the Drixx wagon was, etc. and she's still saying things along the lines of "oh but what if Oxy was just trying to lynch Drixx" (many of her posts, 463 is one example).

I also didn't like her posts during Oxy vs. SS where she was criticizing me for not taking a strong stance on it even though the evidence was pretty weak on both sides. It felt like she may have wanted one of them to get lynched. So that's also factoring into how I read her later posts. Also I feel like it's important in general that I read her posts critically because nobody else seems to be thinking too much about the universe where she is scum.

@ruru, 694 - I thought you were scumreading cuz you thought I was protecting partner!drixx. Why isn't scum!me an indicator of scum!drixx then? IE are you scumreading me independently of the drixx?

I'm still independently scumleaning you a bit because of the above. skitter+Drixx was a theory based on the idea that scum are more likely to panic about the L-1, but like you pointed out, there's an easier play available to scum!skitter than what happened, so it doesn't seem super likely to me anymore.

[Assemblerotws]

Vote Count 1.11

Not Voting [4]:

northsidegal, skitter30, Scioness Sajj, Oxy

Oxy [2]:

eth0s, Drixx

Scioness Sajj [1]:

pinturicchio

ruru [1]:

ofrhz

northsidegal [1]:

ruru

With

9

alive, it takes

5

to lynch.

Day ends in (expired on 2018-04-05 09:00:00) on

April 5, 2018

.

[Scioness Sajj]

I was thinking that Oxy's plan makes sense, and regardless of his alignment, the plan itself is pro-town for at least 23 hours, so there is no reason not to go along with it.

Didn't you have a townlean on Oxy? Have you considered his plan as being potentially coming from scum?

I'm not sure I understand the first question. For the second question, the bluff is that town is willing to carry through with the lynch.

You've said that my idea of what has happen could be possible but wasn't because for it to work it would need people to bluff.
1. Why are you so sure it was not the case?
2. Theoretically, who would have to be bluffing for my plan to work?
----
Ruru, do you think you have been scummy enough for ofrhz to vote you?

[ruru]

I was thinking that Oxy's plan makes sense, and regardless of his alignment, the plan itself is pro-town for at least 23 hours, so there is no reason not to go along with it.

Didn't you have a townlean on Oxy? Have you considered his plan as being potentially coming from scum?

Yes, but nobody is conftown. I considered both possibilities.

You've said that my idea of what has happen could be possible but wasn't because for it to work it would need people to bluff.

Nono, I meant

my

idea (and I think Oxy's) of the Drixx wagon required people to bluff.

Ruru, do you think you have been scummy enough for ofrhz to vote you?

No, I don't think so

[Scioness Sajj]

This NSG vote is so random.

[Scioness Sajj]

Nono, I meant my idea (and I think Oxy's) of the Drixx wagon required people to bluff.

What actually was your idea? Because you have answered that under a quote of my interpretation and I do't know what one has to do with another?

[northsidegal]

lol, i think almost every time that i say that people should be voting or someone specifically should be voting they do the whole "vote the person asking you to place a vote down" thing.

[northsidegal]

Is this before or after he posted the walls?

it was before, but the walls didn't really do anything to change that.

[Scioness Sajj]

I think there is something as to why ruru votes the way she does, but idk. It's like she has a checklist or something.

[northsidegal]

{nsg}
{ruru, ofhrz, pintu}
{scioness}
{skitter, drixx} ----- null
{oxy, eth0s}

[northsidegal]

scioness, you didn't respond at all to anything i said last page – any thoughts there or nothing to be said?

[Scioness Sajj]

You didn't really say much in those post so not really. I'm not interested in lynching you today and would rather talk when you fully catch up.

[northsidegal]

i mean, i gave my thoughts on the playerlist – you don't have anything to comment on there? no disagreements or questions?

do you think there's something i'm missing by not fully catching up?

[Scioness Sajj]

You gave a readlist with explanation, it is pretty generic and lacks substance. I don't see a reason to engage on your opinions.

I don't know, how to answer second question without sounding mean so let's assume I'm not being mean. I think when you fully catch up you will start playing the game and stop active lurking.

[northsidegal]

what do you expect from me after reading everything that i couldn't say now? sure, i could talk about specific posts and how they influence my reads, but i don't believe there's any specific benefits to doing that over simply using the reads i've formed from what i've read and going from there.

that's an actual question to you, by the way – not simply a rhetorical defense.

[Scioness Sajj]

More than a readlist with a towntell, a ping, townreads just becuase, a tinfoil hat and nulls becuase 'those people can't be trusted'.

[Scioness Sajj]

I think there is something as to why ruru votes the way she does, but idk. It's like she has a checklist or something.

What I mean by this is that she votes (a lurker?) when she is asked to or if somebody votes her. Two of those votes (eth0s and nsg) seem defensive and the one on Drixx, I don't know. I didn't like that wagon at all and I feel like I might be putting too much attention into it. I'm not sure if the votes mean anything, I have to think about it more.

I will be unavailable tomorrow, wednesday and maybe monday. I will try to check from phone but no promises.
Happy holidays, guys!

[ofrhz]

Mm, I don't find the unvote by itself to be too suspicious; it could easily be a disagreement in how to approach the game. I do find the resulting arguments suspicious because I feel like multiple people have explained to her what the purpose of the Drixx wagon was, etc. and she's still saying things along the lines of "oh but what if Oxy was just trying to lynch Drixx" (many of her posts, 463 is one example).

Do you believe skitter when she said she was misunderstanding some posts? I’m referring to 603, 616, 621. The rest of her posts after that seemed to be her explaining what the posts leading up to the wagon looked like to her at the time, especially 677.

I also didn't like her posts during Oxy vs. SS where she was criticizing me for not taking a strong stance on it even though the evidence was pretty weak on both sides.

It felt like she may have wanted one of them to get lynched.

So that's also factoring into how I read her later posts. Also I feel like it's important in general that I read her posts critically because nobody else seems to be thinking too much about the universe where she is scum.

Why did you feel this way? Do you think she pressured anyone else to find at least one of Sajj/Oxy scummy?
I think it’s good that you’re scrutinizing her posts, but I’m not seeing the connection between what you’ve said and scum!skitter. That’s why earlier I said it seemed like you’re trying too hard to scumread skitter. Feel free to correct me if I’m not understanding.

also I’m confused why your vote is on north side gal and not skitter. Is her hypocrisy a scum tell for you?

———

@northsidegal, Im confused why you have eth0s and Oxy in the same tier. Do you think it’s likelly they’re working as a team? or Are they independently scummy and you can’t decide which one is scummier? I think considering eth0s has his vote on Oxy, you’d likely have some opinions about that vote and are either in favor of it or not. And say, for example, you agreed with eth0s’ vote, then shoudnt Oxy be scummier than eth0s in your read list?

———

Also I noticed that the game has been divided over Oxy. Basically the more experience players tend to scum lean Oxy whereas the newer players do not (to my knowledge). I’m wondering if a) there is a knowledge gap that we’re not understanding or b) the more experienced players are more likely to view a “bad play” as scummy whereas us newer players tend to think that his controversial gambits were well intentioned albeit a bit misguided. Thoughts?

[ofrhz]

Also northsidegal, why aren’t you voting?

[northsidegal]

@northsidegal, Im confused why you have eth0s and Oxy in the same tier. Do you think it’s likelly they’re working as a team? or Are they independently scummy and you can’t decide which one is scummier? I think considering eth0s has his vote on Oxy, you’d likely have some opinions about that vote and are either in favor of it or not. And say, for example, you agreed with eth0s’ vote, then shoudnt Oxy be scummier than eth0s in your read list?

The way you should be reading that is just as an ordered list with the towniest at the top and vice versa. it's not necessarily saying that i'm convinced that the people at the bottom are scum, simply that out of the entire playerlist i believe that they're the scummiest. two people occupying the same level is not a comment on them being paired or anything – it's just them occupying the same "level" in terms of my read on them. in the context of the list that i posted that puts oxy as equally scummy in my eyes as eth0s is.

you'll see these kinds of readslist often on site, they're relatively common.

Also northsidegal, why aren’t you voting?

slipped my mind, honestly.

VOTE: oxy

[ruru]

Mm, I don't find the unvote by itself to be too suspicious; it could easily be a disagreement in how to approach the game. I do find the resulting arguments suspicious because I feel like multiple people have explained to her what the purpose of the Drixx wagon was, etc. and she's still saying things along the lines of "oh but what if Oxy was just trying to lynch Drixx" (many of her posts, 463 is one example).

Do you believe skitter when she said she was misunderstanding some posts? I’m referring to 603, 616, 621. The rest of her posts after that seemed to be her explaining what the posts leading up to the wagon looked like to her at the time, especially 677.

I mean, I'm not sure? I don't see it as incredible but I do find it weird. I think it would make more sense if she was reading Oxy's iso when she posted 418 but that isn't what she's saying.

At the same time there isn't anything she said that makes me think "this post is definitely coming from scum". I do think that if Oxy is scum then she's probably town, but I'm currently reading Oxy as tilted town.

I also didn't like her posts during Oxy vs. SS where she was criticizing me for not taking a strong stance on it even though the evidence was pretty weak on both sides.

It felt like she may have wanted one of them to get lynched.

So that's also factoring into how I read her later posts. Also I feel like it's important in general that I read her posts critically because nobody else seems to be thinking too much about the universe where she is scum.

Why did you feel this way? Do you think she pressured anyone else to find at least one of Sajj/Oxy scummy?

I was also thinking of 273, although going back and rereading it maybe she was just questioning Drixx's assumption rather than implying it actually was SvT. Hmm.

I think it’s good that you’re scrutinizing her posts, but I’m not seeing the connection between what you’ve said and scum!skitter. That’s why earlier I said it seemed like you’re trying too hard to scumread skitter. Feel free to correct me if I’m not understanding.

scum!skitter misreps the Drixx wagon as trying to lynch him, and making her look super towny for unvoting while stopping a pro-town play and also throwing a lot of shade on town!Oxy.

also I’m confused why your vote is on north side gal and not skitter. Is her hypocrisy a scum tell for you?

Yes, I think it's a bit in the "wow, that sucks" category and I feel like a town player who believes that something is hurting her win% would be more motivated to understand why things are that way and how to improve the situation.

skitter is V/LA, and I don't feel like voting on her would be that productive right now anyway because she already gave a defense and it doesn't make sense to lynch anyone before hearing more from Drixx/NSG.

Nono, I meant my idea (and I think Oxy's) of the Drixx wagon required people to bluff.

What actually was your idea? Because you have answered that under a quote of my interpretation and I do't know what one has to do with another?

Drixx thinks he might actually get lynched => Drixx produces some better content for us to evaluate and explains his earlier posts

Also northsidegal, why aren’t you voting?

slipped my mind, honestly.

VOTE: oxy

Can you explain your vote?

[Assemblerotws]

Vote Count 1.12

Not Voting [3]:

skitter30, Scioness Sajj, Oxy

Oxy [3]:

eth0s, Drixx, northsidegal [L-2]

Scioness Sajj [1]:

pinturicchio

ruru [1]:

ofrhz

northsidegal [1]:

ruru

With

9

alive, it takes

5

to lynch.

Day ends in (expired on 2018-04-05 09:00:00) on

April 5, 2018

.

Oxy has been prodded.

[Oxy]

Sorry for the multi-post, but someone told me huge walls make people super apathetic.

@Oxy - Can you explain to me how you have a town block you have constantly been referring to since very early in the game and (so far as I've caught up) throughout day one? That strikes me as either a slip or some very irrational overconfidence. I'd appreciate a thorough explanation.

Are you asking me why I read each person in that group as town individually? I've given reasons for each of my reads as I've made them. If you have questions about an individual read, feel free to ask.
Are you asking me why I have so many town reads. The simple answer is because I have read each one of them as town. The longer answer is that I've probably made a mistake somewhere.
Are you asking me why I've been referring to them as a town bloc (or, more accurately, as "my town reads" or "team town")? I find it a convenient way of referring to multiple people, all of whom I read as town.
I'd appreciate a thorough explanation of your question so that I can answer it better. I'd also appreciate thorough explanations for the rest of the questions you have been asked in this thread and have as of yet declined to answer.


Also, in this thread:
Oxy points out that the end of D1 is not so far away and proposes plan to pressure people who haven't posted much.
Oxy gets scum read for his plan, but no other ideas for pressuring inactive players is put forward.
Other people realize that the deadline is now upon us, we're no where close to finding a good lynch, no inactive players have been pressured, and everyone is going to be busy because of the holiday. HELP MOD WE NEED AN EXTENSIONS!!!!
Good job, folks. You've outdone yourselves.