Newbie 1859 (Game Over)

[ofrhz]

@Drixx,Oxy - yeah I meant "Sajj put the 'I think' there intentionally so she could back out"

still mulling math's post over. I really feel like skitter is town, so what information would we get from her lynch? very little. I really don't know enough about the game to know if the rest of what math said makes sense lol...

[pinturicchio]

1. I only replace into townslots when I have the option. I almost replaced into NSG's slot when callit flaked out, but I wasn't scumreading enough people at that point in the game to say "well I guess callit is town by PoE".

Dino, I was going to address this the first time you said it, but now that you said it again... Do you have any example (I mean another game) where you said this (that you only replace into townslots) but you actually were scum?

[Oxy]

oh wtf this is literally the first time all game that Sajj has responded to someone suspecting her with something other than super defensiveness. meaning? not sure. but, like, big big change?

[Mathdino]

If I get to a point where skitter30 is damnably town, then yeah I'll admit that lynching her would be bad. But she's not getting NK'd before D3, and that's the point I was trying to make. We're taking her to endgame or we're lynching her today IMO.

[Scioness Sajj]

I have literally wanted to 1 v 1 Oxy so idk what you are taking about

[Scioness Sajj]

I have also called you out when you had that silly slips on me.

[Mathdino]

1. I only replace into townslots when I have the option. I almost replaced into NSG's slot when callit flaked out, but I wasn't scumreading enough people at that point in the game to say "well I guess callit is town by PoE".

Dino, I was going to address this the first time you said it, but now that you said it again... Do you have any example (I mean another game) where you said this (that you only replace into townslots) but you actually were scum?

Nope. I said this in:

Aeronaut's Chill Mafia
fferyllt's Newbie 1841
fferyllt's Newbie 1856

I was right all 3 times, and I'm on record in the MD for basically saying "Man I wish I could play more newbie games so I can teach by example and draw more newbies but I really don't wanna roll scum, and idk how to teach as scum".

Note that I say voluntarily. I made a deal with NSG once where we would cross replace into each other's games if necessary, and I had to take a slot in her game that I honestly thought was a scumslot (it lurked literally all game) in 8p MyLo. I wouldn't have replaced into that if I hadn't made that agreement.

[Oxy]

like between that and the whole "even im a better lynch than skitter" it's almost like she's actually trying to put votes on herself instead of skitter? or maybe this is a drixx/sajj team thing? Or maybe she just figured out that being super defensive isn't really pro-town?

I've been town reading her a while now, and I don't think this changes that but I don't want to lose this in case it becomes relevant in later days.

[Scioness Sajj]

Oh my god

[Oxy]

like 954 and 955 are what I'm used to seeing from skitter. Challenging someone to vote them is not. Through every other push on her, she has pushed back on the person scum reading her quickly and intensely, with the apparent goal of convincing that person that they shouldn't be scum reading her.

[Oxy]

from Sajj**

[Mathdino]

Going off the previous point, I've played opposite eth0s's alignment 3 times now (I admit I was wrong when he was scum), and I did a metadive of his scumgames and recent towngames to confirm my tells on him. If it helps anyone, I can go over that. It won't really be alignment-indicative for my portion of the slot, because the very fact that I'm here means I strongly believed him to be town.

So in that sense, I suppose Drixx is justified in 1v1ing my slot.

But I'm not flipping myself just to flip off the IC.

tl;dr: The percentage chance I'm town is the percentage chance that I'm right on townreading eth0s after digging into his ISO and his meta.

[Scioness Sajj]

Let me know when you will figure out how to make your upcoming vote on me lamist enough, Oxy.

[Oxy]

okay, will do!

[Drixx]

Drixx - you have not really posted that much compared to other people. You have been scumread by almost everybody.

If you think that's a slip you know what to do.

Kind of making my point for me. If it's so likely that I'm scum, why would you suggest I'm a low info lynch? A scum flip is what we're after. If that doesn't happen, then we start to consider the info gained.

And contrary to what dino has said ... slips like that can and do happen. All the time. Even the best players sometimes make super obvious slips. I could belabor the argument by linking to it over and over again, but I'm not sure a pissing match is really useful. We're already on the edge with mathdino having a personal go at me the person.

[Mathdino]

Do me a favor and tie your ego to me flipping scum please. Just something like "We'll see who is good/bad at mafia when you flip scum" will suffice.

Do me a favor and tie your ego to me flipping scum please. Just something like "We'll see who is good/bad at mafia when you flip scum" will suffice.

Do me a favor and tie your ego to me flipping scum please. Just something like "We'll see who is good/bad at mafia when you flip scum" will suffice.

Do me a favor and tie your ego to me flipping scum please. Just something like "We'll see who is good/bad at mafia when you flip scum" will suffice.

Do me a favor and tie your ego to me flipping scum please. Just something like "We'll see who is good/bad at mafia when you flip scum" will suffice.

[pinturicchio]

@Dino I'm townreading you because of you because of your posts, but you saying that you only replace on townslots is making me paranoic; at some point you will have to lie about that, right? Because you saying that everytime you replace in on a townslot... Wouldn't that become a trust tell? Help me about this point.

Also, you said you wouldn't read the entire game because is full of walls. How did you townread eth0s before replacing in if you didn't read the thread?

[Drixx]

@mathdino - I don't want to 1v1 you. I just want you to take a position. You keep making posts where you build a logical progression that

should

end with you pushing me as scum, but you hold back and when I say something you make a point about not having actually said you scum read me. You seem to have a great deal of confidence in your abilities, and if that confidence is warranted, then great. But ... it's easy to go "I'm right all the time" when your positions are essentially "X could be scum or could be town" and you sit on the fence.

[Drixx]

Do me a favor and tie your ego to me flipping scum please. Just something like "We'll see who is good/bad at mafia when you flip scum" will suffice.

Do me a favor and tie your ego to me flipping scum please. Just something like "We'll see who is good/bad at mafia when you flip scum" will suffice.

Do me a favor and tie your ego to me flipping scum please. Just something like "We'll see who is good/bad at mafia when you flip scum" will suffice.

Do me a favor and tie your ego to me flipping scum please. Just something like "We'll see who is good/bad at mafia when you flip scum" will suffice.

Do me a favor and tie your ego to me flipping scum please. Just something like "We'll see who is good/bad at mafia when you flip scum" will suffice.

Clearly you haven't played with me before. If you have a moment you should check out the hydra I frequently play in: Reasonably Rational. Check the signature.

I earnestly apologize if you felt that was a personal attack, but from where I'm sitting (literally), there's a wide gulf between being asked to put your money where your mouth is and calling someone a "shit {anything}"

[Mathdino]

[sarcasm]#teachingmoment:
There's a handy feature next to every post number called "ISO" which is short for "isolation", allowing users to view only that user's posts![/sarcasm]

It's not a trust tell because I could always just be fucking wrong. Obviously if I hard-townread a slot, replaced in, and saw it was actually scum, I would have to make the same argument. I don't want to be put in that position because that ruins my ability to say "I only replace into townslots".

I also can't say that if I replace into slots that haven't posted, or if I replace by request or as a favour to the mod.

Basically, I'm always going to be honest about my read on the slot I'm in. At that point it's up to how right my reads are. And when I'm townreading a player as new as ethos after digging into his ISO and meta, I'm almost always right.

That said, I haven't done the same for other players:
- Oxy has no meta, I'm just townreading him straight up (and knowing my own alignment helps get more reads)
- skitter30 meta is something I'm currently working on
- I'm familiar with NSG meta
- You and Scioness I've only seen in one game as scum.
etc

[Mathdino]

@mathdino - I don't want to 1v1 you. I just want you to take a position. You keep making posts where you build a logical progression that

should

end with you pushing me as scum, but you hold back and when I say something you make a point about not having actually said you scum read me. You seem to have a great deal of confidence in your abilities, and if that confidence is warranted, then great. But ... it's easy to go "I'm right all the time" when your positions are essentially "X could be scum or could be town" and you sit on the fence.

i'm wrestling with the incredibly sad possibility that it might actually be mathematically better to just no lynch

plus while i project confidence purposefully

that does not make me confident enough to come into the thread, not having read it, with a day before the deadline, and telling everyone OKAY HERES WHATS UP WE'RE LYNCHING THE IC

my confidence in my abilities is really only when i'm confident, if that makes sense
i'm most confident about my read on NSG and mayyyyyyybe oxy
ruru is getting to that point

everything else is kinda take it or leave it

[Scioness Sajj]

Never said it's likely for you to be town or scum You were vote on for vague posts and inactivity. If you flip green there wouldn't be much to go off if you flip red that's good but I have seen nothing in game that made me think you are more likely either way.

You know, apparently I have already slipped three times in this game. What do you make of that?

[Scioness Sajj]

I have no clue what makes you think ruru is towny.

Like her no response to ofrhz vote is basically a scum claim for me.

[Oxy]

I really don't want to no lynch. Like, I understand your point about the maths and the setup, but let's come up with a good lynch. How can I help us get to a good lynch? (this question is open to any who want to answer it)

@sajj
How in the world could you construe that as a scum claim?

[Mathdino]

@Scioness: It's a good thing you quoted that so I can try to get a read on it