Open 719: Stack The Deck! (D4)

[Nauci]

I've also skimmed a couple of games with some of you guys when casing other people, but I've only got solid memories of brass's play style. Espeonage is a dope username though.

[brassherald]

VOTE: Nauci

Serious vote.

Upon what is the serious vote based?

[jmo16mla]

VOTE: Nauci

Serious vote.

Upon what is the serious vote based?

Nervousness in his post. "Hello everyone, never done this before."

VOTE: nauci

[Mathdino]

sure why not

VOTE: Nauci

[brassherald]

VOTE: Nauci

Serious vote.

Upon what is the serious vote based?

Nervousness in his post. "Hello everyone, never done this before."

VOTE: nauci

I guess that's a better case than the RVS, though, I did direct the question at Thor, so maybe he has further reasoning.

I'll look for Thor's response as well.

[Beefster]

VOTE: Espeonage
Because you were scum last time I played with you.

@mod: I'm going to be V/LA until Sunday

Noted.

[Thor665]

VOTE: Nauci

Serious vote.

Upon what is the serious vote based?

Nervousness in his post. "Hello everyone, never done this before."

VOTE: nauci

I guess that's a better case than the RVS, though, I did direct the question at Thor, so maybe he has further reasoning.

I'll look for Thor's response as well.

Functionally they stated it, I would add that the particular "aw shucks, seems strange" comment that triggered me specifically was the note about the Innocent Child.
It's like...yeah, and? Have you ever played with a Cop? What's even the point of the mention?
Just felt highly stilted and felt to me like a scum going 'aw, man, confirmed town to start the game with' rather than a more classical town response of 'yay, IC, pretty powerful town role'.

Why aren't you sheeping me yet?

[Thor665]

I'll add in the tinfoil - Nauci not addressing my naked serious vote with even a brief interrogative strikes me as someone intentionally trying to play cool over trying to assess people's reasoning - which seems more likely to come from scum also. It's even a thinner tell than the core one, but adds to a general sense of value in the wagon to my eyes.

[Mathdino]

Is it bad that I actually think Nauci is town

I'm only on this wagon for the dental benefits

[Thor665]

If you're voting a slot you think is town - yeah, it's inherently and objectively bad unless you're scum.

[jmo16mla]

I'll add in the tinfoil - Nauci not addressing my naked serious vote with even a brief interrogative strikes me as someone intentionally trying to play cool over trying to assess people's reasoning - which seems more likely to come from scum also. It's even a thinner tell than the core one, but adds to a general sense of value in the wagon to my eyes.

Bing bing bing

[Mathdino]

If you're voting a slot you think is town - yeah, it's inherently and objectively bad unless you're scum.

We have many disagreements on a theory level

I could wagon brass if anyone's down for that

[the worst]

VOTE: brassherald

[Mathdino]

Thanks duckling

VOTE: brassherald

[the worst]

Quack quack dino

[the worst]

Are you town?

[Mathdino]

Me? Yeah

You I'm not sure on

Duck
Duck
Duck
Duck
...
Dino!

[Mathdino]

btw if anyone was wondering

really the primary version of this setup that isn't townsided is the one where the mafia literally either pick nothing or pick daytalk (assuming they can actually get something out of it)

when i ran this setup it was lost because people were like "oh yeah that makes sense for there to be 4 PRs seems legit"

even with the benefit of WIFOM (MAYBE SCUM MIXED THINGS UP), this setup becomes breakable with too many power roles

so expect goons and not many PRs

[the worst]

[the worst]

How often does scum just pick nothing or pick only daytalk? I recall someone in the last game was talking about taking the two goon buffs to nullify GC which was interesting. Leaning on better setup specers than me as to whether this would actually work/whether people are likely to come up with it.

Last Stack the Deck Creature/Jay slot would have been a great d1 lynch until that damn claim. IC feels like an exceptionally good roll in this setup.

[Mathdino]

501: Nothing
520: Daytalk + Rolecop
530: Daytalk + JOAT
539: Recruit + Rolecop + JOAT
548: Nothing
557: Rolecop + JOAT
574: Daytalk + Rolecop (I played this!)(I also am one of few people with access to this mafia PT, which has still not been archived after 4 years)
582: Recruit + Rolecop (I won this!)
594: Recruit + Rolecop + JOAT
622: Recruit + Rolecop + JOAT
644: Nothing
651: Recruit + Rolecop + Bulletproof
663: Rolecop
684: Rolecop + JOAT
711: Recruit (I modded this!)

I stand corrected. I do think it's pretty -EV to select Rolecop just to add another TPR that needs to be rolecopped/killed but that might be because I generally think MS PR play is hilariously obvious.

Scum tends to lose the more they pick I think. Not a 100% rule but it's definitely a trend.

Innocent Child is good when played well.

Also this setup is for some reason sometimes run as 12p and sometimes as 13p. Dunno how much that affects the balance.

[Mathdino]

How often does scum just pick nothing or pick only daytalk? I recall someone in the last game was talking about taking the two goon buffs to nullify GC which was interesting. Leaning on better setup specers than me as to whether this would actually work/whether people are likely to come up with it.

Last Stack the Deck Creature/Jay slot would have been a great d1 lynch until that damn claim. IC feels like an exceptionally good roll in this setup.

Doing this either:

- Creates three useful TPRs anyway
or
- Creates four TPRs that aren't Goon Cop

I'm generally of the opinion that the claimspace is more valuable than anything else.

At the very least, given the caliber of the majority of players here, I'd definitely expect a lighter scumteam. Especially after it's pretty much MD consensus that less is more.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Hmmm. If I can't be first why not be the last? Just flip the list and I'd be first still.

so expect goons and not many PRs

Not many or not at all? Please be precise. I hear you have a good track of breaking open setups.

Also

VOTE: Thor

Only player who hasn't confirmed their role via PM (check post #6 before you ask how I know). Too bad we can't win together unless you are also town here.

[HeWhoSwims]

Please do confirm your role with me, Thor.

[Mathdino]

I mean there's at least one additional PR to the inno child anyway.

Only mechanical advice I got is BG optimal play is probably to protect IC. Not because the IC or this specific IC is necessarily the most valuable protection, but because we can take an IC death to then imply there's no Bodyguard (since scum don't have a roleblocker). Plus the only real benefit of BG dying is... self-confirming that there is in fact a BG.