Open 719: Stack The Deck! (D4)

[Mathdino]

Hope you stick around onsite. I've been working at getting better at metadiving lately. Seems to be the Way of the Future lol

Open 711 (Stack the Deck) was one I modded and the worst played in. Potentially good for TW meta but otherwise not that useful.
D1. Town ran up confscum, confscum claimed roleblocker, town ignored the slot and lynched someone else
N1. Mafia AND the vigilante both shot the worst, but the Bodyguard absorbed both kills and fucking died.
D2. Town was like WELL I GUESS TW IS THE TRAITOR and lynched him.
N2. The vigilante shot the guy that the claimed-roleblocker """roleblocked""", hitting town.
D3. 8p MyLo, Goon Cop had no results, and they obviously lost.

Basically a train wreck for town due to lynching solely on mechanics.

If you can figure out how to reliably read MariaR by meta, then respect.

Also I was recently fucked over by scum-TW who successfully played his town meta recently in the Earthbound game, so there's that if you're interested (also has town-Beefster literally gamethrowing in MyLo so yeah).

[Mathdino]

I don't see why we would ever want to not criticize conftown's posting. TIAM was a confirmed mason in that abortion of a game and scum MVPed. I didn't think anyone could be that anti-town, but I should set lower expectations for humanity.

I think IC answering questions directed at other people is very bad practice, correct me if I'm wrong.

oh whoops i mixed up my memory of uglyduck's post, swapped who he was defending and who he was attacking
the point stands though

UglyDuck's post was basically "hey IC, stop discouraging Math". This is designed to indirectly appeal to me and reads incredibly inconfident, like he's also trying to stay in the IC's good graces.

There's a way of critiquing innocent children like "Hey dude your reads are utterly awful" or "Please stop butting into my conversations while I'm trying to get reads", but then there's "Hey let's not discourage potential town here..."

[Nauci]

Wait what

A Bodyguard is a role who can target a player at Night to protect them. However, if the protected player is supposed to be killed, the Bodyguard is killed instead ("taking the bullet" for them, as it were).

Bodyguard only protects from a single kill. If multiple people try to kill the Bodyguard's target, both the Bodyguard and the protected player will die.

The wiki says BG can only absorb one hit, not both?

Oh yeah I remember the gist of that game (well, less the details and more of cracking up as the plot developed). There's a hilarious amount of potential for role bluffing in this setup, so I'd be ultra skeptical of any claims.

I don't usually use meta to convict people. I usually use it to exonerate them. People who are abrasive, quiet, or just plain weird are frequently stupid lynchbait so I do it to inoculate myself from scum being able to push easy targets.

I agree that the "let's not discourage potential town here" bit pinged me. Some combination of "what is this potential town nonsense, everyone is guilty until proven innocent in the court of mafia," and "mafia want town to rabbit hole setups because it's much easier to talk about than actually scum hunt authentically." I don't even dislike with setup talk necessarily, just... pro-setup talk sentiments...

[Mathdino]

The way the role PMs are written for Stack the Deck means that in that niche scenario that's literally never occurred in this setup's history, the BG absorbs all kills.

[MariaR]

At least the IC is a low poster that's good.

[jmo16mla]

trying to think if this says anything about thor's alignment (dependent on mafia flips)

Actually I was trying to think if it meant anything about Wisdom's alignment, since he replaced Dunn who confirmed "too late".

That's WIFOM and why are you considering when someone confirms a scum/town tell?

[jmo16mla]

I'm actually thinking it's a town slot, since decisions were probably made in his absence yet he did confirm in the end. If he was posting in the scum pt either his partners or the mod would have reminded him to send the confirmation pm, but that's all probably outguessing the mod. Same for the mod noting that the new roles will be send after the initial 72 hours "so as not give away alignments". Wisdom would have needed some time to discuss with his partners, bit the "not to give away alignments" suggests it wasn't necessary, so Wisdom probably isn't scum.

Again, WIFOM. Why the fuck is this even a discussion?

LITERALLY anyone can miss a pm. For hello sake, I almost did for the first role pm. Whoops. Guess I'm scum for that. Right? Now don't ever think about discussing that again.

[jmo16mla]

thank jesus fuck I didn't get inno child. Conversation at hand seems meaningless at the moment so let's change it to something I consider meaningful
VOTE: Judge Joseph
This is scum.

Considering this.

But also, could just be town being weird.

[jmo16mla]

thank jesus fuck I didn't get inno child. Conversation at hand seems meaningless at the moment so let's change it to something I consider meaningful
VOTE: Judge Joseph
This is scum.

I thought we agreed we're not bussing!

VOTE: MariaR

We are out of RVS and you throw out an "RVS OMGUS" vote?

[the worst]

I like Nauci

[the worst]

How are you reading JJD jmo?

[jmo16mla]

I mean there's at least one additional PR to the inno child anyway.

Only mechanical advice I got is BG optimal play is probably to protect IC. Not because the IC or this specific IC is necessarily the most valuable protection, but because we can take an IC death to then imply there's no Bodyguard (since scum don't have a roleblocker). Plus the only real benefit of BG dying is... self-confirming that there is in fact a BG.

I feel like you're getting enirely too involved in the setup...

Is it not good to be involved in the set up? Don't think we want to discourage potential town from reading through and making solve attempts...

Also i forgot jmo was the IC
But with that in mind, this is probably our second scum
Would wagon as well
V WKy post

We aren't trying to SOLVE the setup. I've gone through this in my head even before drawing IC and it still wouldn't rrally be beneficial. It all goes back to WIFOM that players can hide behind while posting to look town.

[jmo16mla]

How are you reading JJD jmo?

Reading up. May or may not get to this.

[the worst]

Awrighty just wondering whether you have an **angle** or just throwing some comments around

[jmo16mla]

VOTE: Nauci

Serious vote.

Upon what is the serious vote based?

Nervousness in his post. "Hello everyone, never done this before."

VOTE: nauci

Oh god I'm already so many pages beyond and I barely skimmed page 1

But isn't it bad for the IC to be answering questions directed at unsorted slots

The only way slots get sorted is to die. So yeah, I'm goig to input and talk about as much as I can.

As an IC, what do you propose I do?

[the worst]

You do you bro I was just asking

I like comparing IC/my reads vs others' so sry if I'm a bit pushy

[jmo16mla]

At least the IC is a low poster that's good.

Depends on how I'm feeling.

[Mathdino]

At least the IC is a low poster that's good.

you spoke too soon

jmo chill

[Mathdino]

As an IC, what do you propose I do?

Used my IC status in this setup to justify literally not posting (I'd get lynched otherwise), shitposted a bit, poked a few players, then nailed the entire scumteam in EoD post.

IC is in a very unique position.

You can be active, but

don't show your hand as IC until you're ready to murder people

.

[jmo16mla]

Awrighty just wondering whether you have an **angle** or just throwing some comments around

Don't be so applogetic, or I'll think you're scum. Lol

So, I like to catch up and post on individual posts that I agree or disagree with. I've never been great at making cases, just breaking down the game and getting better with reads as the game goes on and I see patterns/changes in play.

[jmo16mla]

As an IC, what do you propose I do?

Used my IC status in this setup to justify literally not posting (I'd get lynched otherwise), shitposted a bit, poked a few players, then nailed the entire scumteam in EoD post.

IC is in a very unique position.

You can be active, but

don't show your hand as IC until you're ready to murder people

.

Ah, right. I'll work on that.

[Mathdino]

Awrighty just wondering whether you have an **angle** or just throwing some comments around

Don't be so applogetic, or I'll think you're scum. Lol

So, I like to catch up and post on individual posts that I agree or disagree with. I've never been great at making cases, just breaking down the game and getting better with reads as the game goes on and I see patterns/changes in play.

okay see this is a very very bad post

- if TW is scum, he's literally going to stop being so apologetic thanks to you showing your hand

- if you continually tell scum what posts you disagree with, they'll modify their play to get townread by you

[the worst]

Sorry for being apologetic. I'll try and work on that. please dont hate me

[Wisdom]

as an ic you have the unique advantage of being able to pressure people without them being able to discredit your motivations

[Nauci]

VOTE: Nauci

Serious vote.

Upon what is the serious vote based?

Nervousness in his post. "Hello everyone, never done this before."

VOTE: nauci

Oh god I'm already so many pages beyond and I barely skimmed page 1

But isn't it bad for the IC to be answering questions directed at unsorted slots

The only way slots get sorted is to die. So yeah, I'm goig to input and talk about as much as I can.

As an IC, what do you propose I do?

IC is the time that you can and should deviate from all previous posting strategies or tendencies.

You don't have to post anything which we would normally extract from people to sort your slot. No read lists, opinions, hot takes, theories, or hypotheticals. Just interrogate, instigate, and be extremely precise about what you want to influence, since you'll have more influence than anyone else for now. We only have to debate about how right or wrong you are, not your motivations.

As an IC, what do you propose I do?

Used my IC status in this setup to justify literally not posting (I'd get lynched otherwise), shitposted a bit, poked a few players, then nailed the entire scumteam in EoD post.

IC is in a very unique position.

You can be active, but

don't show your hand as IC until you're ready to murder people

.

as an ic you have the unique advantage of being able to pressure people without them being able to discredit your motivations

^What they said.

Awrighty just wondering whether you have an **angle** or just throwing some comments around

Don't be so applogetic, or I'll think you're scum. Lol

So, I like to catch up and post on individual posts that I agree or disagree with. I've never been great at making cases, just breaking down the game and getting better with reads as the game goes on and I see patterns/changes in play.

Pls don't publish How To Win Mafia and Influence ICs and delete the manuscript, kthxbai.