Newbie 1859 (Game Over)

[skitter30]

Really? I didn't read it that way. Like that question doesn't really have PR overtones to me tbh.

[ofrhz]

Hmm ok that’s how I initially interpreted it and why I didn’t answer it. I don’t really know what she wanted with her question now, so I’ll just wait for her to clarify if she feels like it’s important.

[ofrhz]

@ruru- I don’t know if it’s just me but that thinking emoji is BIG.

[ruru]

It was looking like you or him. If you're town, you don't know he's town, so obviously you prefer he gets lynched. If you're scum, you know he's town, so obviously you prefer he gets lynched.

Right, so I obviously didn't want to get lynched, but I feel like you aren't actually trying to figure out which of the two scenarios you outlined was happening. Like I feel like you're looking for scum on the wagon and like you scumread me, but you aren't trying to figure out the motivation of my vote.

If I think it's NAI, why would I analyze it?

Given the fact that the start of 1178 is clearly talking about my analysis of the gamestate in 1003 and your vote on me just before deadline, I assumed that the parenthesis at the end of 1178 was also talking about your vote on me just before deadline. Since that's apparently not what you meant, what were you referring to in the parenthesis at the end of 1178?

I am going to quote everything here for context because originally you implied I'm trying to lynch AFKs:

(Also I was trying to do other things with my vote. There's no point in trying to lynch the person I find scummiest when we have like 3 AFKs.)

Um, the point of the game is to lynch the person you find scummiest, not the 3 afks?

??????????

I wanted to get the AFKs to talk before lynching anyone how do you STILL not understand this if you're town

Like the deadline was rapidly approaching. There was a wagon on me. You've been scumreading me for like a week and half. I basically told people to vote me. And you're not voting me cuz you want to vote an afk just before deadline when there's a wagon on like your biggest scumread.

When did I do this?? I was having some doubts about SS but I voted on you. Your posts are making less and less sense as the game progresses...

So, timeline of events:

1. I vote NSG, I leave it there for no particular reason
2. A wagon forms on skitter, skitter posts 1033
3. I come back to many pages of text and think about my vote, I vote skitter

What does this have to do with lynching lurkers

[ofrhz]

Also at one point towards end of D1, scioness says it’s almost impossible to lynch anyone but skitter. So then why wasn’t her vote on skitter? I mean, she allegedly wanted a skitter lynch.

[Scioness Sajj]

I'm back for a while.

drixx > skitter but lynch > no lynch

we can lynch skitter, we don't know if we will be able to lynch anybody else because of claims

Drixx was here around this time yesterday but that's about it

Have you both read the thread? We have 12 hours and only one VT claim, that makes lynching anybody but skitter nearly impossible.

Yeah, sure I'd prefer to lynch ruru today and see skitter go to the end game, but that's not really a thing right now.

lynch > no lynch
vt lynch > no claim lynch

p.edit if I have to vote skitter I will, I hope drixx will get back and claim vt though

We have 12 hours left, we don't know if enough people will be there for any new wagon nor is it actually safe to wagon anybody in case they won't be here to claim and we hit pr.

So we lynch skitter or drixx or we don't lynch at all

[ruru]

@ruru- I don’t know if it’s just me but that thinking emoji is BIG.

Yes, it's a big emoji, it's not your phone or anything if that's what you're wondering

[Oxy]

Really? I didn't read it that way. Like that question doesn't really have PR overtones to me tbh.

Do you really not see what Ofrhz is talking about? I think you should be able to see what Ofrhz is talking about. I would understand if you disagreed with an argument like, "it seems like a stretch to suggest that scum!sajj would so blatantly pr hunt" but it doesn't make sense to me that you wouldn't see it.

Skitter, I'm town reading ruru for a lot of reasons, and you'll have to forgive me for not making another big wall explaining it. The thing is, I was pretty strongly scum reading you, mathdino was town reading you, there are reasons to believe you weren't nearly his strongest town read, and now you're building scum teams with my number one town read and people who I would have a hard time believing she could be scum with, even if I was scum reading her. I believe it's probably <50% that you are actually scum, but even if you are town, your reads on sajj, ruru, and myself leave me scratching my head. So, no, I'm not dropping my town read because you don't agree with me on a few posts.

[ofrhz]

Why didn’t you vote for skitter then and there? Why wait? ...what were you waiting for? Skitter was at like L-2 I think so you could vote for skitter and still wait for Drixx?

[Scioness Sajj]

Skitter - do you think we can win the game by poe at this point?

[Scioness Sajj]

because we are going nowhere in this gamestate and I don't think it can chnage tbf

[Scioness Sajj]

NSG COME HERE PLEASE I NEED TO TALK TO YOU

[ruru]

I would think town!SS would have preferred a no-lynch in general. She's saying Oxy and I are quite scummy and there's 834. So, if the first Drixx wagon was comprised of scum!Oxy and/or scum!ruru then why would she call Drixx a low info flip in 935? And then hammer him anyway despite not scumreading him. It doesn't add up to me.

I really like this. I wish you would take a look at some more of her read progression from D1 because I think you would do a better job articulating any odd moments that you find better than I would.

I'll start looking at this now but there's no guarantee I'll finish today

[ofrhz]

Oxy I thought you said you didn’t want to lynch skitter today. Has that changed?

[Scioness Sajj]

btw I need to talk mechanics/gamestate first so don’t expect me to engage in ‘my reads are better than yours’ mess untill I'm done talking with NSG

[ruru]

we can lynch skitter, we don't know if we will be able to lynch anybody else because of claims

Oh, actually just noticed this now. This post has a weird mindset to me.

If you try to lynch someone you think is scum, and you expect them to have to fake claim, then that should be good, right? It's only a problem if you are trying to lynch town.

[Oxy]

Oxy I thought you said you didn’t want to lynch skitter today. Has that changed?

No, it hasn't. I think there are better places to put our lynch today.

[Oxy]

we can lynch skitter, we don't know if we will be able to lynch anybody else because of claims

Oh, actually just noticed this now. This post has a weird mindset to me.

If you try to lynch someone you think is scum, and you expect them to have to fake claim, then that should be good, right? It's only a problem if you are trying to lynch town.

I would read this as, "We don't know if we will be able to lynch anybody else because they won't be here to claim if they are actually a pr." It implies that lynching an un cc'd pr claim would be bad D1 (it would be) and it also implies that skitter's VT claim wasn't confirmed (it isn't)

[Scioness Sajj]

Yeah, you got it right, Oxy.

Bless you.

[ruru]

Oh I see, never mind that makes sense

[skitter30]

If I think it's NAI, why would I analyze it?

Because you're saying you're scumreading me but you're not voting me and you're not trying to interact with me so it feels like you're content to just say you're scumreading me without doing anything about it.

-----

I am going to quote everything here for context because originally you implied I'm trying to lynch AFKs:

(Also I was trying to do other things with my vote. There's no point in trying to lynch the person I find scummiest when we have like 3 AFKs.)

I originally read this as you saying that you wanted to lynch the 3 afks instead of the person you found scummiest but that's apparently not what you meant?

But now I think you were trying to say 'why should I bother trying to lynch someone when it won't happen given that there's 3 people afk'? Is that accurate? Can you just like rephrase the bit from 1178 cuz I think I misread it?

-----

Do you really not see what Ofrhz is talking about? I think you should be able to see what Ofrhz is talking about. I would understand if you disagreed with an argument like, "it seems like a stretch to suggest that scum!sajj would so blatantly pr hunt" but it doesn't make sense to me that you wouldn't see it.

It looked to me like she was saying she thought that Math was the obvious nk, and that she was surprised that ofrzh thought otherwise. I really didn't read it as having PR overtones.

Skitter, I'm town reading ruru for a lot of reasons, and you'll have to forgive me for not making another big wall explaining it. The thing is, I was pretty strongly scum reading you, mathdino was town reading you, there are reasons to believe you weren't nearly his strongest town read, and now you're building scum teams with my number one town read and people who I would have a hard time believing she could be scum with, even if I was scum reading her. I believe it's probably <50% that you are actually scum, but even if you are town, your reads on sajj, ruru, and myself leave me scratching my head.

So, no, I'm not dropping my town read because you don't agree with me on a few posts

.

I didn't ask you to drop your read on her? I asked you to explain it better, or to like respond to my reasoning. Like ruru is the person I'm townreading the least. I'm trying to understand your POV cuz you feel quite strongly otherwise, but like if you don't engage with me about it I can't exactly do that.

Also it's kinda disingenuous to use 'I'm building scum teams with your number one townread' as a reason to find me sketchy when I'm literally answering the question ofrhz asked me: 'what are the plausible scumteams with ruru in it?' It's not like I just brought it up out of thin air. I explained my answer to that question as best as I know how.

-----

Skitter - do you think we can win the game by poe at this point?

Probably. Once we get a scumflip, very likely.

I don't know if PoE'ing teams is super helpful at this time though. I think it's best just to look for individual scumminess and look for partners after a redflip.

[Oxy]

Also it's kinda disingenuous to use 'I'm building scum teams with your number one townread' as a reason to find me sketchy when I'm literally answering the question ofrhz asked me: 'what are the plausible scumteams with ruru in it?' It's not like I just brought it up out of thin air. I explained my answer to that question as best as I know how.

Ofrhz, please correct me if I'm wrong. Ofrhz dropped his scum read on ruru because he couldn't find a plausible scum partner for Ruru, making it unlikely that his scum read on ruru was correct. I'm in a similar boat, in addition to my reasons for town reading ruru. To answer his question, you proposed scum teams that don't make sense to me based on their interactions. tl;dr: I knew you were answering his question, and I was not implying that you were saying all of this unprompted. I'm saying that your analysis seems flawed in this instance, and in enough instances that I would be hesitant to town read you even if I were otherwise doing so.

[ofrhz]

Yeah that’s a good summary of how I started town reading ruru. I didn’t consider Oxy and ruru because Oxy is town in my eyes.

[ruru]

If I think it's NAI, why would I analyze it?

Because you're saying you're scumreading me but you're not voting me

Why do I have to be voting you on day 1 of day 2?

and you're not trying to interact with me

?

so it feels like you're content to just say you're scumreading me without doing anything about it.

I just don't understand your thought process at all here.

I am going to quote everything here for context because originally you implied I'm trying to lynch AFKs:

(Also I was trying to do other things with my vote. There's no point in trying to lynch the person I find scummiest when we have like 3 AFKs.)

I originally read this as you saying that you wanted to lynch the 3 afks instead of the person you found scummiest but that's apparently not what you meant?

But now I think you were trying to say 'why should I bother trying to lynch someone when it won't happen given that there's 3 people afk'? Is that accurate? Can you just like rephrase the bit from 1178 cuz I think I misread it?

Like, really? You're

still

misunderstanding this?

I wanted to use my vote to get the AFKs to talk so we all have more information to decide who's actually scummiest.

I don't know if PoE'ing teams is super helpful at this time though. I think it's best just to look for individual scumminess and look for partners after a redflip.

Why throw out information like this?

[skitter30]

Also it's kinda disingenuous to use 'I'm building scum teams with your number one townread' as a reason to find me sketchy when I'm literally answering the question ofrhz asked me: 'what are the plausible scumteams with ruru in it?' It's not like I just brought it up out of thin air. I explained my answer to that question as best as I know how.

Ofrhz, please correct me if I'm wrong. Ofrhz dropped his scum read on ruru because he couldn't find a plausible scum partner for Ruru, making it unlikely that his scum read on ruru was correct. I'm in a similar boat, in addition to my reasons for town reading ruru. To answer his question, you proposed scum teams that don't make sense to me based on their interactions. tl;dr: I knew you were answering his question, and I was not implying that you were saying all of this unprompted. I'm saying that your analysis seems flawed in this instance, and in enough instances that I would be hesitant to town read you even if I were otherwise doing so.

I kinda wish you responded to the bit about your ruru townread tbh cuz that's what I'm trying to work out right now.

I don't townread ruru. She's the scummeist person in the game right now imo. I'm aware that she doesn't have any great potential partners, and I acknowledged that. I also acknowledged that I have too many townreads and that I have to be wrong somewhere; it's entirely possible that I'm wrong on someone who I'm townreading who could fit as a partner with ruru if I weren't townreading them. I don't think lack of potential partners is a reason to drop a scumread at this stage of the game. I think that if she's scum, pressuring her may yield further interactions to be analyzed. I don't think that people's individual scumminess should be negated by a teamread analysis.

I don't think that your reasons for townreading her are that great, as I've explained above, and I'm trying to engage with you on it. Like if I'm wrong, it would be helpful if you can explain why instead of just saying 'I already explained', cuz telling me that when I've already shown why your reasons for townreading her aren't really working for me doesn't really help me re-evaluate that read.

p-edit: Yeah, but I have too many townreads, and a ruru scum-flip would make them less townie in my eyes, so I need to include them when analyzing potential partners.

Like I guess that I'm saying that I don't townread them enough to discount them as a partner given a ruru scumflip. Like I do townread them independently, but if ruru flipped scum I'd need to reconsider them in that light.