Newbie 1859 (Game Over)

[Scioness Sajj]

Like I don't know, do you know that ruru is scum? Do you think I'm bussing ruru to kill you? ??????

Why are you so scared of me suddenly? Do you think I have a power to force two mislynches?

Like here. I don't get how you think I could be scared of you when yesterday you were literally like "don't engage me rn." Weird overreaction. Possibly projecting.

I don't understand how asking if you are scared of me (because that's what it looks like to me) is defensive. No clue about projecting and overreaction.

[Assemblerotws]

Vote Count 2.04

Not Voting [5]:

pinturicchio, Oxy, northsidegal, ruru, Scioness Sajj

ruru [1]:

skitter30

Scioness Sajj [1]:

ofrhz

With

7

alive, it takes

4

to lynch.

Day ends in (expired on 2018-04-21 13:00:00) on

April 21, 2018

.

northsidegal has been prodded.

[Scioness Sajj]

No it was an example that was within reach. I’ll post later with the examples I had in mind originally but there was one like “Oxy lmk when you’ve made your upcoming vote on me seem LAMIST enough” which stuck out at me.

I was taunting him. More of a reaction test than anything else.

[Scioness Sajj]

Oh I see what you were getting at now Scioness (thanks to both you and Oxy for being patient with me. In hindsight, I get that my op was confusing).

No my original post was to try and avoid a ruru mislynch. I think it's unconvincing to push for a ruru lynch without considering who she can be teamed with (people have since disagreed but I'm ignoring that for now). So like, say if someone wants to lynch ruru, I would ask them who ruru could be teamed with. And Scioness said it could be skitter, Oxy, or me.

If Scioness kept trying to push for a ruru lynch, I would expect Scioness to start scumleaning me (or I guess nullreading would work too in hindsight), because Scioness needs to come up with a viable partner for ruru.

(Does this part make sense at least?)

If ruru flips green, wouldn't that vindicate me??? I wasn't trying to avoid a lynch on me (today or tomorrow). I was trying to make people think more carefully before pushing a lynch on ruru because I think she's town with no viable scumpartners (I'm open to reconsidering this if anyone disagrees). That's why I was (am) defending myself - to make people think more critically about a ruru lynch.

No, I'm still townreading ruru, so I don't think Scioness was bussing ruru.

Let me ask you a question. Did you have a scum partner for ruru when you hopped on her wagon yesterday?

Bolded - It doesn't really.
If ruru flips red than yes I would look closely at how people were acting when push was happening. No clue how that makes me scum.

If you think ruru is town than you should defend her and not youself. Do you townread ruru becuase you don't see pertners for her or do you townread her from the content of her posts?

[Scioness Sajj]

nvm, disregard queston about your townread on her.

[Scioness Sajj]

I had ruru as town by PoE because I couldn’t think of a scum partner for her. I then went back to reread her because I think 3 people had ruru in their lynchpool, and like not all three of you can be scum. I summarized my thoughts in some spoiler thing directed at skitter. I’d be interested in your opinions on my ruru read- see if I have anything worthwhile. But yeah, Now I’m townreading her.

Here you are saying that scum will work together to push mislynches. Do you think it is only way scum team will work? How do you distinguish from scum pushing together and town pushing together?

[ofrhz]

I didn’t consider who ruru’s potential scum partners could have been until Oxy’s post that I responded to.

I didn’t say that a team was pushing ruru. There are three people who are. Obviously not all of you can be scum, but I think it’s likely at least one of you are. It’s possible that 2/3 are scum but I’m not sure if that’s likely right now.

What conclusions did you draw from your reaction test?

[ofrhz]

Re: 1325, I think given the misunderstanding surrounding my original post, I think this is no longer relevant.

[ofrhz]

If you think ruru is town than you should defend her and not youself.

By defending myself, I would help people eliminate possible scumteams with ruru in it, so I am defending ruru by extension. Or that's how I see it anyway.

I mean, I think I am defending ruru irregardless?? I didn't go through the trouble of rereading her ISO and typing my thoughts out for nothing.

[ofrhz]

On reread during night phase I was thinking that your questions often implied a scum read that would later disappear without explanation. (example being 317 -> 336)

I had no reason to not believe her thought process in 324 (the post I was responding to in 336). This post of mine was me trying to convince Scioness that putting people at L-2 is ok.

[ruru]

This is like a whole lot of weird vague assumptions, I don't even know

Whereas this doesn't make much sense to me. You're looking for scum on the wagon and you think I'm scum and I was on the wagon but you didn't talk to me about it. I find that weird.

I explained why your vote was NAI to me. I could bring up 20 questions about something I consider NAI, but that's not really how I want to spend my time right now. SS's vote was way more interesting and more new information.

Ok, I thought you were talking about your vote on me at deadline. Since you apparently weren't, let's talk about that now - why'd you take so long to vote me?

I was rereading recent pages, I wasn't at all sure about you, and I was thinking about SS. IIRC I was also hoping SS might show up and answer me before I had to decide.

At the time I interpreted 997 and her tone in general as SS made her final decision and would not be moving her vote off me (in retrospect maybe this isn't what it ever meant), and I thought the timing of everything was strange from her. I was wondering if maybe scum!SS knows skitter+Drixx to be town for a fact, and wants town to lynch town without being on the wagon. That could explain why she at some point decided she didn't want to talk about her case on me anymore.

I mean, it's a general philosophy I have for scumhunting. Associatives are useful, but I've found that if I put stock on that *over* indivdiual scumminess, I tend to get seriously off-track and have gotten screwed over more than once by following associatves over individual-scumminess; it's happened to me more than once that I voted on associatives over individual scumminess and, like, the associative-based read was wrong and the individual-scumminess based read was right. So, like, I'm trying to learn from these mistakes and like not do that.

And like, scum know all the answers and they can manipulate associatives to mess with you. (in the spoiler. Scumteam was seph/implosion. Implosion fucked with the associatives on purpose *a lot* to make people view the game as either seph/flubber or wave/implosion, and while I was never going to believe seph/flubber, the wave/implosion narrative made *a lot* of sense and that's what lost the game ultimately.)

class; I'll look through the ruru/oxy scioness-posts later.

Okay but that's not really what you said:

I think it's best just to look for individual scumminess and look for partners after a redflip.

It sounded like you didn't want it to be part of the discussion at all, rather than a piece of (unreliable) evidence.

[ruru]

- Oxy - Scioness is willing to sheep Mathdino on NSG but not willing to sheep Mathdino's most confident town read? ..........??? I'm not even going to entertain this because I was independently townreading Oxy before Mathdino even showed up to the game.

There is a difference between Mathdino having a townread on NSG when he probably has read every game she has ever played just because he wants to be that good at reading her. (

Add to it that I have played with NSG before, if I am to be confident in any of my reads this game I bet on NSG beng town

).

Do you mind explaining why you're townreading NSG now? I understand sheeping Mathdino but that's not what the second part sounds like

I do think Scioness asking me who the nk should have been was scummy. It was indirectly asking me who I thought the PRs were.

Did you really? If you thought asking was suspicious why didn't you engage me or add it to the reason you were voting me for?
Nope, it was face value question. I have asked because

I wasn't really surprised to see him dead, he did shake up the game in a way that the scum team wouldn't be happy with

.

Drixx flips town, probably lynch
Scioness --> ofhrz --> ruru (on Sci townflip) --> whoever of NSG/skitter30 is still alive (on Sci scumflip)

Hmm...

Do you really think I would think that you know who prs are?

I don't like this very much either. Not in the "scummy post" way, just in the "if you're town please stop" way. I know it's probably a rhetorical question but still.

[ruru]

I'd really like to see reads from pin/NSG and I really need to sleep. I'll try to do more SS iso tomorrow

[Scioness Sajj]

I'd really like to see reads from pin/NSG and I really need to sleep. I'll try to do more SS iso tomorrow

Do you not suspect/vote people for being inactive anymore?

[Scioness Sajj]

By defending myself, I would help people eliminate possible scumteams with ruru in it,

so I am defending ruru by extension. Or that's how I see it anyway.

It is really weird way to defend your townread by poe, though.

I mean, I think I am defending ruru irregardless?? I didn't go through the trouble of rereading her ISO and typing my thoughts out for nothing.

Yeah, you are I forgot about that little thing you've written from her ISO.

I didn’t say that a team was pushing ruru. There are three people who are. Obviously not all of you can be scum, but I think it’s likely at least one of you are. It’s possible that 2/3 are scum but I’m not sure if that’s likely right now.

So ruru cannot be scum because she doesn't have a viable team in your opinion. But how do you know she does not? By poe, right?

Nobody is pushing for a ruru lynch right now, though. I know you didn't say that that's why I asked.

What conclusions did you draw from your reaction test?

Nothing that would make me yell 'scumslip'. He didn't really bite.

[Scioness Sajj]

Like I don't know, do you know that ruru is scum? Do you think I'm bussing ruru to kill you? ??????

Why are you so scared of me suddenly? Do you think I have a power to force two mislynches?

Like here. I don't get how you think I could be scared of you when yesterday you were literally like "don't engage me rn." Weird overreaction. Possibly projecting.

I don't understand how asking if you are scared of me (because that's what it looks like to me) is defensive. No clue about projecting and overreaction.

Ofrhz, what scumteams do you consider me in?

[Scioness Sajj]

@ofrhz sajj + pin is not an outlandish possibility, necessarily. Is it? I think I could come up with a theory worth of Pin on why the two of them are scum, lol.

I'm interested in this. Do you read Pin as scum only by association with me? Also what has changed from the time you couldn't find any reasons to scumread him?

[Oxy]

@ofrhz sajj + pin is not an outlandish possibility, necessarily. Is it? I think I could come up with a theory worth of Pin on why the two of them are scum, lol.

I'm interested in this. Do you read Pin as scum only by association with me? Also what has changed from the time you couldn't find any reasons to scumread him?

I'm not sure I would even say that I'm scum reading Pinturicchio. I haven't really found much in his posts to make me say either, "this comes from town" or "this comes from scum."

He does have pretty good scum equity purely by poe.

My quote was saying, "I don't see anything in their interactions that would allow me to completely rule out Pin + Sajj." I then made a joke about how Pin is prone to wild conspiracy theories, and that I could probably come up with a narrative for Sajj + Pin that was at least as plausible as his Oxy + Ofrhz and Sajj + Drixx theories.

[Oxy]

I guess it could be interpreted as mean, but I really did enjoy those theories, so I wasn't trying to be mean. =/

[Scioness Sajj]

Like I don't know, do you know that ruru is scum? Do you think I'm bussing ruru to kill you? ??????

Why are you so scared of me suddenly? Do you think I have a power to force two mislynches?

Like here. I don't get how you think I could be scared of you when yesterday you were literally like "don't engage me rn." Weird overreaction. Possibly projecting.

I don't understand how asking if you are scared of me (because that's what it looks like to me) is defensive. No clue about projecting and overreaction.

Alright, sorta same.

How likely do you think it is that we correctly poe scumteam with what we have right now?

[Scioness Sajj]

that's not what I wanted to quote

to Oxy


Alright, sorta same.

How likely do you think it is that we correctly poe scumteam with what we have right now?

[Oxy]

We don't have auto, if that's what you're asking. I don't know what the percent chance would be if we took what we know know and came up with a lynch list based off of that and just stopped playing. It probably wouldn't be super high, though. Why are you asking?

[Scioness Sajj]

Oh yeah I know we don't have auto. I think we need pool of three to make it auto, so it's not gonna happen.

I have been thinking about poe'ing the game down since Mathdino did it.

[skitter30]

@ofrzh, 1285. So the tldr of your ruru townread is that you think her playstyle is inherently passive and that in that framework, her playstyle has been consistent?

Thing is that I find that passiveness to be scummy, even if it's part of her personality. For example, I don't think that going after the lurkers is town-indicative like you do; I think it's low-hanging-fruit-y. It's a lot easier to make it look like you're busy by pressuring the lurkers than pressuring the active players who'll, like, respond to you. Like for scum, it's a lot easier to take the stance of 'let's pressure the lurkers' than to take the stance 'I think active player A is scummy because of the following reasons'.

Like not responding to votes on her is weird. She just feels kinda out of it, if that makes sense? Like not really following the main threads? I just get this overall vibe that she isn't really engaging with people. I think that scum!ruru may have thought that a lurker wagon on drixx may have been a good push for that reason.

I don't know if I'm giving scioness the benefit of the doubt so much as I don't think the reasons people are scumreading her are compelling. Like the PR question wasn't a PR question to me, and it's kinda a reach imo to read that question as PR hunting.

I think that there's probably one scum off and one scum on the wagon, if I had to guess.

In order, off the wagon, I think scum is probably: {ruru, pin, NSG}.

On the wagon, I think scum is probably: {oxy, ofrzh, scioness}

Also, the notion of 'townreading someone by PoE' is kinda bizarre to me. Like I can understand 'not scumreading someone by PoE', but to me that's distinct from *townreading* someone.

-------

In 1291, Oxy highlights some of Scioness's commentary on ofrzh's 1234.

What's pinging me about 1234 is that ofrzh assumes that scioness is going to push a ruru/ofrzh team and is pre-emptively defending against that. I don't think scioness had proclaimed anywhere "I think the team is ruru/ofrzh", so this is kinda weird response?

Actually I went back to reread 1234, and that whole post is kinda weird? Ofrzh says he needs to show he's townie to defend against scioness pushing ruru/ofrzh, and he does so by voting scioness.

Like if he thinks scioness is town, he shouldn't be voting her there.

If he thinks scioness is scum, it makes sense to vote her but it's weird to frame the vote as a 'defense' to something a scumread hasn't really pushed yet. Like for ofrzh to vote scioness cuz she wants to push a ruru lynch to defend himself is a weird reaction.

Like the vote in 1234 is some sort of weird preventative OMGUS framed as defending himself from a scioness push almost?

(1311 kinda articulates the weirdness)
-----

Like I can kinda already see skitter doing this with Oxy with her whole "Oxy is townish but also could be scum." Does that make sense?

You're kinda stripping away the nuance from my read.

My read on oxy is: I understand the reasons math was townreading him logically but my gut still feels like there's something off there. I guess I can accept him as a provisional townread atm and stop pushing him for now, but I do think he makes a lot of sense as a ruru partner, so if ruru ever flipped red, my townread on him would have become weaker in that specific context.

Also I don't understand why you're framing a scioness push on you as a scumslip? Like I don't see a scumslip here, so this is another example of people pushing scumreads on her that I don't really get and/or don't find compelling.

note to self for later: I got up to 1311.

[pinturicchio]

I'm back. I'll reread from my last post and see if there's something I want to address