Newbie 1859 (Game Over)

[skitter30]

I think that this is analysis is built on the assumption that you/ruru are town, neither of which I particularly believe atm.
Like you don't actually seem to scumread scioness, so much as think she's scum by PoE by eliminating the people I think are most likely to be scum, which is why I disagree with this post. (disregarding NSG, I probably agree there).

So you asked me why I would want to lynch sajj tomorrow if you flipped town, and I gave you my analysis.

You disagree with the analysis because it assumes I'm town.

I

feel

like you probably could have expected me to use town!me as a given.

So then what was the point of this conversation?

Because it clearly wasn't an attempt to gauge my thought process and sort me...

Also, here you are telling me that poe is an ineffective method for finding scum.

I mean, clearly you're going to assume that you're town. My point is for everyone else tomorrow: I don't think this is a reasonable assumption.

And I've been trying to gauge your thought process this entire game, but a lot of what you're saying only makes sense to me if you're dumb or acum, and since I don't think you're dumb ...

@ofrzh: I don't think 1v1 == interacting with each other. You two were doing just fine trying to sort each other without oxy egging on a fight.

And while I don't think 1v1 necessarily == wallposts, I do think 1v1 does and will induce apathy.

[skitter30]

Ruru -> oxy -> ofrzh ->pin -> nsg/scioness, barring other developments.

Oxy being alive in 5way is a decent indicator his reads are upside down or he's scum. Oxy being alive in 3way is a strong indicator his reads are upside down or he's scum.

Lynching scioness after me will probably end the game.

Ofrzh's scum equity has gone up a fair bit today.

Yeah, I think I've said everything of import, so knock yourselves out.

[ruru]

Okay

I'm noticing a pattern where I feel like skitter just reads everything as "anti-town but not scummy" when it's convenient and "scummy" when it's convenient

Like there's definitely a distinction but it feels so arbitrary with her. Like spamming the game with stuff nobody wants to read is imo more scummy than encouraging people to 1v1 which may produce stuff nobody wants to read but may produce super useful information.

Case in point: I never noticed 217 until now because both Oxy and SS were spamming the game with stuff nobody wants to read (sorry) and even if I read the words my brain was like shut off.

That being said

* I feel like the Drixx/Oxy/ofrhz thing really needs to be explained at this point because it's actually super weird.

Preferably before we do anything that might end the day.

I'll be back later

[Oxy]

@ruru To clarify, are you asking Scioness to explain her posts related to those reads?

[Scioness Sajj]

I'm noticing a pattern where I feel like skitter just reads everything as "anti-town but not scummy" when it's convenient and "scummy" when it's convenient

i think you have made a mistake somewhere

[Scioness Sajj]

because if there is no mistake than yeah great what about it?

[skitter30]

I'm noticing a pattern where I feel like skitter just reads everything as "anti-town but not scummy" when it's convenient and "scummy" when it's convenient

Like there's definitely a distinction but it feels so arbitrary with her. Like spamming the game with stuff nobody wants to read is imo more scummy than encouraging people to 1v1 which may produce stuff nobody wants to read but may produce super useful information.

Case in point: I never noticed 217 until now because both Oxy and SS were spamming the game with stuff nobody wants to read (sorry) and even if I read the words my brain was like shut off.

There's a distinction between being anti-town and scummy; those are not the same thing at all. I don't know what 'when convenient' means. And I'm not being arbitrary; I'm explaining myself as best as I know how. And I feel like a lot of people are stripping away the nuances from what I'm saying in order to make the argument that I'm being inconsistent or fence-sitty or scummy.

And my entire point is 1v1s tend to create environment where the game is spammed with stuff that no one wants to read, so encouraging one is scummy. I don't understand the benefit to encouraging a 1v1 here.

[ofrhz]

Hmm, but did Oxy want the game spammed with unproductive posts or did he want to see more material come from me and Scioness through a 1v1?

You seem to think he wants the former, but I don’t think he intended for that at all. You kinda made a logical leap where “wanting a 1v1 = wanting more spam.”

[skitter30]

Hmm, but did Oxy want the game spammed with unproductive posts

or did he want to see more material come from me and Scioness through a 1v1

?

You seem to think he wants the former, but I don’t think he intended for that at all. You kinda made a logical leap where “wanting a 1v1 = wanting more spam.”

The bolded was happening already, literally as he posted it. You two were engaging with each other immediately before and after his post. So what was the point of having a 1v1 on top of that exactly?

1v1s make gamestates worse, not better. We already lived through versions 1-12,000 of this already (see: scioness vs oxy and me vs oxy part I). That's part of what was directly making the game hard/discouraging to read for eth0s/nsg/drixx/math. Hell, I don't want to reread most of that mess ever either. I don't understand why a 1v1 is beneficial given that the effect he wanted (ie ofrhz and scioness debating with each other) was already happening and given that 1v1s tend to harm gamestates.

Like idk if it's "wanting a 1v1 == wanting more spam" so much as it's "wanting a needless 1v1 is scummy because 1v1s tend to create suboptimal gamestates that are hard for people to read"

I feel like I'm living in some sort of bizarro world where people are cool with arbitrary 1v1s because .... ?

[Assemblerotws]

Vote Count 2.06

Not Voting [3]:

pinturicchio, northsidegal, ruru

skitter30 [2]:

Oxy, ofrhz [L-2]

ruru [1]:

Scioness Sajj

Oxy [1]:

skitter30

With

7

alive, it takes

4

to lynch.

Day ends in (expired on 2018-04-21 13:00:00) on

April 21, 2018

.

[Oxy]

I feel like I'm living in some sort of bizarro world where people are cool with

arbitrary

1v1s because .... ?

Another example of you distorting the situation. No one is rolling dice to determine who 1v1's. It was very much so not arbitrary. Trying to claim it's arbitrary without refuting the reasons I've given for wanting them to continue is just another example of you scum claiming.

Sajj could you please answer ruru's questions. I don't see any reason to keep this day going...

[pinturicchio]

Lol

@Assemble I was trying to sort out how to use Mathblade's tool to make my own votecount and couldn't do it, do you use that same tool or something else?

I manually count each vote that took place between that moment and the last votecount.

[skitter30]

I feel like I'm living in some sort of bizarro world where people are cool with

arbitrary

1v1s because .... ?

Another example of you distorting the situation. No one is rolling dice to determine who 1v1's. It was very much so not arbitrary. Trying to claim it's arbitrary without refuting the reasons I've given for wanting them to continue is just another example of you scum claiming.

Sajj could you please answer ruru's questions. I don't see any reason to keep this day going...

Arbitrary because it was pointless because *they were already doing, in a non 1v1 setting, exactly what you wanted them to do in a 1v1*.

Nobody's managed to explain what *benefit* there would be from that 1v1 given that the outcome you wanted was *already happening* ffs.

And I'm not fucking scum-claiming. I'm saying that you're making like no sense.

[Oxy]

I know that you weren't in the thread at the time, but I believed it likely they were about to stop before I could get anything useful out of the encounter, so I egged them on. I can see how that would be difficult to catch when just reading through the thread, but it's obviously true. As either alignment, if I thought they were going to continue, I would have just let them.

[Oxy]

But also, what would the benefit of me saying that as scum if what I wanted was already happening and likely to continue? How is this line of dialogue even relevant?

[skitter30]

And you couldn't just say: "hey, I think this is a fruitful discussion because of A, B, C, can you guys continue it?"

Like I don't get why a 1v1 was brought up in that context at all.

p-edit: cuz it'll likely creates a sub-optimal game environment for everyone else, which is why I think why it's scummy.

[northsidegal]

This is exactly why I think skitter's point about the intended 1v1 is garbage, and throws shade to the wallposters saying that its their fault that a lot of players are not engaging. Eth0s said he was busy, Dino did engaged, Drixx was V/LA and NSG usually plays like this.

hey, don't take tit for tat or this game as my normal play. typically i like to think of myself as more engaged.

[northsidegal]

Ruru -> oxy -> ofrzh ->pin -> nsg/scioness, barring other developments.

could you explain the strength of your scioness townread?

[pinturicchio]

This is exactly why I think skitter's point about the intended 1v1 is garbage, and throws shade to the wallposters saying that its their fault that a lot of players are not engaging. Eth0s said he was busy, Dino did engaged, Drixx was V/LA and NSG usually plays like this.

hey, don't take tit for tat or this game as my normal play. typically i like to think of myself as more engaged.

I was thinking about Newbie 1851 more than Tit for Tat; I can't recall if you were more engaged there, but I do feel you definitely invested much more time to solve the game when it was going to end. In Tit for Tat you died too early to make a read on how you usually play as town

[northsidegal]

@mod, v/la through sunday

will try to check in on this game and not fall behind

[northsidegal]

i think i'm fine with the skitter wagon, would like to interact more with scioness

[northsidegal]

scioness, what was it earlier that you wanted to talk to me about?

[ruru]

I don't see any reason to keep this day going...

If skitter is town, we lynch her, another town gets NKed, then it's 5-way lylo tommorrow. I would bet on at least one of {skitter, SS} being scum but I really don't want to lynch skitter until I'm confident she's not just scummy, but also scummier than SS. Especially if you think ofrhz+SS is a reasonably likely pair then it seems pretty dangerous to me. I don't think just skitter being scummy is enough reason to lynch her right now if that makes sense.

SS, I would really like to see a clear answer to 377

VOTE: Scioness Sajj

[ruru]

Also if scum!skitter has a reason for not wanting more ofrhz/SS interactions, then I definitely want them to happen before the day ends

[Oxy]

Okay, all good points. You did that iso of scioness I didn't want to do. I'm game for whatever direction you want to explore.