Newbie 1859 (Game Over)

[skitter30]

Nm, oxy -> ofrzh/pin -> ruru -> scioness/nsg.

I feel like ruru's scioness vote, although weird, probably doesn't come from scum in this gamestate given her trajectory on me.

Having a lot of trouble ordering ofrzh/pin/ruru in an order that feels *exactly* right, but this feels approximately right.

------

Also if scum!skitter

has a reason for not wanting more ofrhz/SS interactions

, then I definitely want them to happen before the day ends

This never happened, but sure.

I said I didn't want a 1v1 between ofrzh and scioness. (More precisely, I said I didn't want a 1v1 at all; the fact that the principal actors involved are ofrzh and scioness is not particularly relevant). I have no problem with them interacting.
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@nsg: I think scioness is town cuz her thought process is nuanced and understandable. I don't feel like she's pushing an angle. She pursues where she thinks scum is even if it's against thread consensus. Often, she's thinking exactly what I'm thinking at the same that I am. Like, she doesn't feel faked or fabricated at all.

[skitter30]

That she's one of the two scums, and that the other is in skitter/Scioness. Right now I suspect skitter being the scum PR and ruru not putting her scumread on L-1 is indicative,

but there's a slight chance that ruru voting Scioness is her way of separating herself from her partner before being lynched

, so even if I believe skitter is her partner, I think it's better to play it safe (if I'm wrong about skitter, we go to LyLo or MyLo and that pressure is suboptimal, especially with Oxy and ofrhz hard townreading ruru)

This is also a really backwards understanding of the current gamestate.

Bolded: neither ruru nor scioness are close to being lynched right now. Why does scum!ruru start a wagon on her partner when there's a nice mislynch on me building?

You use a lot of circular logic to form your reads. Like the logic in this paragraph is kinda backwards? Idk how to articulate why exactly.

Like you think I'm the scum PR because ruru isn't voting me, and ruru isn't voting me cuz I'm the scum PR. You did the same thing with the drixx wagon. Your argument basically boiled down to:

-> Drixx is town because the sketchy people (me/ruru) were voting him

and

-> me/ruru are sketchy because we voted drixx, who you townread.

I've pointed out the circular logic a few times but you never responded to me, but yeah.

so ruru voting one of scioness or skitter at all makes you think that she's scum?

No no, if she voted skitter my theory of skitter being the scum PR would've been disproved

Like this is also kinda backwards? And like pre-emptively basing reads on who the scum PR may be based on a teamread that is not in any way substantiated given that neither of the people involved have flipped yet.

And if I'm the scum PR shouldn't you be voting me? Like isn't that a higher-priority than the goon?

Also, like, I just checked the possible setups. In 1/3 of the setups, *there isn't a scum PR at all* so, like, why is a potential scum PR even a factor in your reads at this stage?

OMG I totally forgot about that, and that could even make more sense for a ruru/skitter scumteam: skitter flips red, ruru gets even more towncred!

Ruru gets more towncred because ... ?

Oxy you change your read on me like a girl changes clothes.

Whenever I do something that goes against your reads, I'm scum; if I do something in favor of your reads, that post seems townie. What do you want me to do, to follow your lead?

I can't vote ruru for some extraordinary reason I can't see? The lack of coordination is killing us.

@ofrhz you say there's one scum between ruru and skitter, I'm scumreading them both, why do I "really want them to be scum" and not just scumreading them both? I don't get it. If skitter flips rolecop/roleblocker, could you PLEASE reconsider your read on ruru?

VOTE: skitter That's L-1.

This vote on me kinda meh? Like you're kinda giving up on your theory for now to please oxy.

Like the bolded basically sounds like you're voting with oxy because you want him to townread you almost?

[ofrhz]

I don't think Scioness's read on ruru is nuanced at all. At the risk of getting into "everyone who disagrees with me is wrong," I think people who don't factor in ruru's consistently passive style are just... well, the opposite of nuanced.

And she'll pick out random stuff like

Hmm...

If you have something to say then say it, don't rely on people picking up your 'clues'. Posting things like that you are just creating noise.

You could share your thoughts and move game forward but instead you have decided to go ISO me again to correct your reads instead of updating them.

Here, I thought it was pretty obvious that ruru put two posts together to juxtapose them and present a thought, so this response was kinda weird. Not everyone will post or respond to a situation the same way, but Scioness seems to interpret this posting style as anti-town at the least.

Also, "Ruru either didn't read the game after I have made the case on her or today was just a day of villainizing me" is just a roundabout way of saying OMGUS - 1388. I get Scioness may feel misrepped, but I think ruru is asking legitimate questions. For example, "why didnt scioness reconsider the no lynch idea after Mathdino explained it like 3 different times?" is a valid question.

Or like this

Or that sheeped vote on Drixx. Guess who did something like that in 1851?

The only difference was that she straight out posted a naked vote and I had to be persuaded to hammer.

False equivalence right? L-1 is not the same as a hammer vote especially when ruru already explained the whole "bluff" she and Oxy were pursuing.

[ofrhz]

@skitter - ^ To be clear, I don't think these examples necessarily point to scum!Scioness, but I don't get how you follow her thought process and/or think she has nuanced thoughts on the game.

It's weird because I agree with a lot of your thought process (e.g. 1551 is a good post imo), but how do we have such different reads?

[Assemblerotws]

Vote Count 2.07

skitter30 [3]:

Oxy, ofrhz, pinturicchio [L-1]

ruru [1]:

Scioness Sajj

Oxy [1]:

skitter30

Scioness Sajj [1]:

ruru

Not Voting [1]:

northsidegal

With

7

alive, it takes

4

to lynch.

Day ends in (expired on 2018-04-21 13:00:00) on

April 21, 2018

.

[Scioness Sajj]

The topics she is interested in are perfectly consistent with her game. Good tin foil hat, but this is no smoking gun. In fact, what ruru is doing is

objectively pro town from my pov.

*insert big thinking emoji*

[Scioness Sajj]

ofrhz

1. what thoughts has ruru presented in quoting those two things?

2. could you tell me how her passive charcter affects her play?

[Scioness Sajj]

Ruth + pin only a thing in a world where pin hard buses ruru from start to finish and I don't even know ruru's pin read

So Pintu bussing ruru makes the team impossible but Pintu voting me doesn't make sajj/pintu impossible? Why?

[Scioness Sajj]

scioness, what was it earlier that you wanted to talk to me about?

I have alrady asked you. Wanted to know your pintu and skitter reads. Still waiting for you to answer me what you think about skitter's unvote in the middle of D1.

[Scioness Sajj]

Sajj could you please answer ruru's questions.

I don't see any reason to keep this day going...

There was no question though. I thought you are against answering thing that aren't questions.

What me answering ruru's question has to do with ending the day? And why do you think ending the day now is optimal?

[Oxy]

Oxy you change your read on me like a girl changes clothes. Whenever I do something that goes against your reads, I'm scum; if I do something in favor of your reads, that post seems townie. What do you want me to do, to follow your lead? I can't vote ruru for some extraordinary reason I can't see? The lack of coordination is killing us.

@ofrhz you say there's one scum between ruru and skitter, I'm scumreading them both, why do I "really want them to be scum" and not just scumreading them both? I don't get it. If skitter flips rolecop/roleblocker, could you PLEASE reconsider your read on ruru?

VOTE: skitter That's L-1.

I don't think my read on you has moved much... at all. Yes, your analysis was townie. No, it didn't get you out of my poe pool. Yes, I get why you are voting ruru. and I'm sorry I told you to stop being dense. =/

[Oxy]

Ruth + pin only a thing in a world where pin hard buses ruru from start to finish and I don't even know ruru's pin read

So Pintu bussing ruru makes the team impossible but Pintu voting me doesn't make sajj/pintu impossible? Why?

I actually didn't say that it made them impossible. Please don't put words in my mouth.

[Oxy]

Sajj could you please answer ruru's questions.

I don't see any reason to keep this day going...

There was no question though. I thought you are against answering thing that aren't questions.

What me answering ruru's question has to do with ending the day? And why do you think ending the day now is optimal?

I don't see any reason to keep this day going...

If skitter is town, we lynch her, another town gets NKed, then it's 5-way lylo tommorrow. I would bet on at least one of {skitter, SS} being scum but I really don't want to lynch skitter until I'm confident she's not just scummy, but also scummier than SS. Especially if you think ofrhz+SS is a reasonably likely pair then it seems pretty dangerous to me. I don't think just skitter being scummy is enough reason to lynch her right now if that makes sense.

SS, I would really like to see a clear answer to 377

VOTE: Scioness Sajj

[Scioness Sajj]

alright less possible.

answer my question please

[Scioness Sajj]

377 has been asnwered the first time around though.

I even had a long discussion about it with orfhz iirc

[Scioness Sajj]

If she tells me what isn't clear to her then yeah but beside that

[Scioness Sajj]

Oxy stop dodging

[Oxy]

alright less possible.

answer my question please

I didn't say it made it less possible, even. It is a less possible pairing, but because I read ruru town. Not because of the interaction.

Now, you. Go give ruru what she wants.

[Scioness Sajj]

why do you think it is right time to end the day though

[Scioness Sajj]

I had no problem following Drixx's thoughts in 254 and I think Oxy took it out of the context/misread it and ofrhz panicked? I didn't like his reaction to the posts connecting him with Oxy (on which he has a townlean/townread? i'm not sure) and he went with some posts that were putting you in the spotlight (pin had his scum pool {you, oxy, ofrhz}) and he quoted 268 yet he didn't really find a reason to interact with you all this time? Seems like distracting in a way 'look at her she is scummy, not at me'.

I will add more on this when I will get to catching up and answering things from last night.

[pinturicchio]

@skitter you're disregarding the starting point of those "circular logic" reads. A circle has no beginning, and my reads have a beginning, you just decided that they don't. The circle you're mentioning is just me using cientific method to make analysis; I start with a hypothesis, I test it, see the results, I confirm/adjust/disregard the initial hypothesis. Me going back to my conclusions is not circular logic, it's me closing my case.

Hypothesis 1: Drixx' wagon was scum motivated. Test 1: look at Drixx as an individual; test 2: look at the players on said wagon. If test 1 throws Drixx no significant information that could make scum!Drixx a thing, then we can safely do test 2. At this point, I'm not townreading Drixx, but I'm not even scumreading him neither, so Drixx getting to L-1 was suspicious. Test 2: two of my most townreads are in the wagon, one of my scumleans and one player who I haven't sorted out. After some analysis, test 2 throws enough information to believe that hypothesis 1 was correct, with the two suspicious people reactions as the main reason to believe so. Conclusion: my gutread of the Drixx wagon is correct, it is indeed scum motivated, so Drixx must be town, and I suspect ruru and skitter (individually) for it.

I'm tired of replying to you because you clearly don't read the thread. You asking me "why are you not voting me if you think I'm the scum PR" is the perfect example, as I have addressed that at least 2 times now. You saying you've pointed out the circular logic thing: doesn't feel like it, I think you pointed it out ONE time and I ignored it because fmpov it came as scum trying to disregard my read on her. I'm addressing it now because I'm tired of people saying my reads are bad when I'm trying to improve in that matter.

Yes, I want Oxy and ofrhz to townread me because the lack of organization coming from town could lead us to a scum win; voting patterns from almost everyone are really messed up. Me voting you is not giving up my theory, it's playing riskier than voting ruru but coordinating with the rest of the town for the sake of it. "Why are you voting ruru instead of me if I'm the scum PR?" followed by "now it seems you're voting me because you want to be townread by Oxy".............

Case closed, I can't keep up the pace with your wallposts

[Oxy]

pin, could it just be so obvious as skitter + sajj?

[Oxy]

because rn both of them seem to be doing their best to add confusion.

[Scioness Sajj]

why do you think it is right time to end the day though

[Oxy]

because i've found scum. none of the things you have been asking me the last couple of days has been difficult to find by just reading the thread.