Open 719: Stack The Deck! (D4)

[Mathdino]

"you cant prove im scum so im not"

-math

no, i'm saying that good scumreads come from "this player is playing inconsistently with how they would play as town"

not from "oh well it's possible this is consistent with their towngame"

those are difficult to produce which is why i've had more good townreads than good scumreads this game

JJD is playing inconsistently with his scumgame
nauci i have a tell on (also i can prove that i actually metadived nauci for the purposes of this game, and correctly HARD townread her for team mafia tiebreakers during N1 based partially on the meta research i'd already done for this game)
brassherald is playing inconsistently with how he would interact with his buddies as scum
etc

there are significantly more reasons as to why i'm inconsistent with how i'd play as a traitor
and 0 reasons as to why i'm inconsistent with my towngame

the "math doesn't bus of scumread without clearance/communication" is a major element there

[Mathdino]

like espe's case literally makes more sense because it at least presumes that i rolled scum with beefster and was like "LOLBEEFSTER" and planned to drop him

gladiating a weakass scumpartner like beefster

with a "strong" town player like thor (strong from scum-me's perspective because it means he was right on me)
who could've
- towned it up hard by not being dumb about the BG claim
- claimed PR, because in retrospect he was dropping the BG tell all over the place AND I DIDNT NOTICE BECAUSE I AM TOWN
ends in a beefster lynch
like that day should've ended in a beef lynch

this is not how i play scum
i am on record for saying that elsewhere as well

[Wisdom]

like espe's case literally makes more sense because it at least presumes that i rolled scum with beefster and was like "LOLBEEFSTER" and planned to drop him

you mean to tell me bussing beef while knowing you're getting zero value from your rolecop makes more sense somehow

[Mathdino]

IT MAKES MORE SENSE THAN ME BUSSING HIM UNANNOUNCED

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

@Wisdom: I', not even sure there is one. I said earlier that Scum might have also recruited their Traitor so Beef knew he was hammering Town for sure.

ok even in that case, who is the third scum?

Espeo or Nauci

[Wisdom]

not seeing either as scum

[Mathdino]

micro 769
jester nightless
anything upick
mkultra
3 in 1 pt 2
3 in 1 pt 3
^all my scum threads since coming back from hiatus

and another thing
Subject: Open 709: Masons and Monks (Game Over)

How did I pre-plan the game when I wasn't even here to do so?

I hate to pull the self-meta card but both times I rolled scum with people in micros I tried my hardest to clear the bus with them beforehand so I don't become the asshole. I don't like losing to bad moves.

Now imagine the scenario in which I powerbus Beefster (trying my damnedest to actually get him lynched) without clearing it at ALL with him, and then get shot that night by mafia for being good and town leadering.

That reflects absolutely horribly on me and would be an asshole move to Beefster to just replace into his scumgame and completely fuck him over.

Anyone can use the "Math is still alive" argument all they want but is it conceivable that I expected to survive both these nights playing the way I did, and nailing Kotoko the way I did?

[Wisdom]

you trying to defend yourself is not helping you
i dont give a shit about selfmeta

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Thor is scum. This is thor's scum game. Thor is setting up fake arguments to get himself involved in a discussion that people will ultimately not want to take a side on. He needs to go EARLY or he will just systematically kill everyone that will oppose him.

Lynch the fuck out of Thor

this is basically the post that convinced me

Thank you. I am too lazy to go back and research what made me link X to Y and rule out them being scum with Z, so you doing it for me is really appreciated.

THIS is one of the main reasons I put Espeo as possible Scum if Beef was scum and Thor was Town. I had ruled him out as Scum of Thor flipped scum.

Now look at it in the light of the flips and the NK choice and reread his posts of today and you would see why I very much disagree with anyone who says Espeo has Town told. In fact, he just recemtly said he would not vote UD for the rest of the game, so Espeo+UD+Beef makes sense to me.

[Mathdino]

you trying to defend yourself is not helping you
i dont give a shit about selfmeta

there's a difference between self meta and "I am legitimately offended that you think i would bus my buddies without discussing it at all beforehand"

it's a matter of principle

[Wisdom]

In fact, he just recemtly said he would not vote UD for the rest of the game

why does him saying that is an indicator they're buddies

[Mathdino]

Thor is scum. This is thor's scum game. Thor is setting up fake arguments to get himself involved in a discussion that people will ultimately not want to take a side on. He needs to go EARLY or he will just systematically kill everyone that will oppose him.

Lynch the fuck out of Thor

this is basically the post that convinced me

Thank you. I am too lazy to go back and research what made me link X to Y and rule out them being scum with Z, so you doing it for me is really appreciated.

THIS is one of the main reasons I put Espeo as possible Scum if Beef was scum and Thor was Town. I had ruled him out as Scum of Thor flipped scum.

Now look at it in the light of the flips and the NK choice and reread his posts of today and you would see why I very much disagree with anyone who says Espeo has Town told. In fact, he just recemtly said he would not vote UD for the rest of the game, so Espeo+UD+Beef makes sense to me.

i'm still on TW
convince me it's not TW and PoE leads me to dig into espe/wis i think
i probably get run up before either of those happen but w/e

[Wisdom]

VOTE: ugly

[Mathdino]

ironically
the main way i could see wisdom or espeonage as scum is if they're an unrecruited traitor
however
because i am not playing like shit
i am uninterested in assuming what scum did (since they already played unexpectedly) in order to traitorhunt based off partially inaccurate assumptions

if Group A of players can be both traitor and groupscum
and Group B of players can ONLY be traitor
it's actually idiotic to lynch in group B

and that's why town fucking lost last game

[Wisdom]

jjd, when esp made that post there were zero votes on beef
so its not like he was trying to get attention off beef

[Wisdom]

also what do you mean about the nk choice? didnt you say esp wouldnt shoot the ic?

[Mathdino]

also what do you mean about the nk choice? didnt you say esp wouldnt shoot the ic?

precisely why espeonage only makes sense as traitor

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Where the freak is everybody else?

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

also what do you mean about the nk choice? didnt you say esp wouldnt shoot the ic?

Erm, no? I said neither you nor Dino would have.

[Wisdom]

oh. then you think esp would?

[HeWhoSwims]

VC2.1

brassherald (1) (L-4):

Nauci

the worst (2) (L-3):

brassherald, Mathdino

Wisdom (1) (L-4):

MariaR

MariaR (1) (L-4):

Espeonage

UglyDuck (2) (L-3):

Judge Joseph Dredd, Wisdom

Not voting (2):

the worst, UglyDuck

With 9 alive, 5 votes are needed for a lynch.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Yes. I think the entire scum team is less experienced because of:
1- The NK choice
2- The additional ability picks (picking the RC is weird, and I don't even think you would pick that without picking the daychat, so we probably have yet another PR out there, which is surprising against everything Mathdino had advocated in the dead thread of the game he modded).

[Mathdino]

espeonage never makes that kill, JJD

also i need you to trust the nauci towntell, it worked for team mafia tiebreakers

i need more options

[Wisdom]

Yes. I think the entire scum team is less experienced because of:

then esp doesnt make sense as hes experienced

[Mathdino]

JJD btw is someone i would put in a strange Group C box of people that only make sense as groupscum

in that scenario picking the rolecop and orchestrating beefster's death would be a super WIFOM move to clear JJD as town

wouldn't be at all surprised if, in that scenario, JJD also picked mafia JOAT or some shit to further fuck things up