Newbie 1859 (Game Over)

[pinturicchio]

I'm sorry, I'll catch up quickly. I read all posts without really concentrating on them. I only remember something skitter said that pinged me like hell, but something that could prove town!skitter and that's fucking me up

[Scioness Sajj]

I'm sorry, I'll catch up quickly. I read all posts without really concentrating on them. I only remember something skitter said that pinged me like hell, but something that could prove town!skitter and that's fucking me up

Same problem but with oxy

Throughout the game

[northsidegal]

Claiming VT as scum doesn't expose you to cc at all period

Pr shouldn't fake claim idk why do you think they do

If you're scum and at L1 or you have intent to hammer then it's almost always best to fakeclaim a pr. Either you get counterclaimed and in death you take out a power role, or nobody ccs you and you get false cleared.

NSG, what made you scumread me and skitter?

I think I explained the skitter read, combination of not seeing town there and PoE. I townread you at first, honestly forget why that changed.

[Scioness Sajj]

Nsg yeah I know that wasn't my point/how I understood ruru

[northsidegal]

Okay here's my take on plausible scumteams. I'd rather not exclude half the players from consideration though

Oxy+skitter: don't think so
Oxy+SS: don't think so
Oxy+pin: less likely
Oxy+ofrhz: plausible
Oxy+NSG: plausible¹

skitter+SS: plausible²
skitter+pin: less likely
skitter+ofrhz: somewhat less likely³
skitter+NSG: plausible¹

SS+pin: less likely
SS+ofrhz: plausible
SS+NSG: somewhat less likely⁴

pin+ofrhz: somewhat less likely⁵
pin+NSG: plausible

ofrhz+NSG: plausible

¹I can totally see scum bussing their partner on day 1 for active lurking, not reading the thread, etc. NSG is "fine" with the skitter wagon today, but she isn't voting on it despite scumreading skitter. NSG's day 1 vote on Oxy also seems non-indicative to me.

²Even if they're defending each other, maybe they think it will help them lynch town today. It gets kind of WIFOMy and I'm not sure if playing this way is really that risky compared to the alternatives. They could plan to lynch me/Oxy today, bus each other tomorrow, and it would be lylo on day 4. If everyone is saying that they wouldn't play this way because one red flip incriminates the other, then, well, it doesn't. Also this gets a lot more weight than it would otherwise because I think they're more individually scummy than the others.

³SS townreads skitter, NSG like never votes, and based on his own posts about me I think ofrhz knows I wouldn't hammer skitter in this situation. So she was very likely not getting lynched and he may have known it. Actually probably super +EV for this scumteam for him to vote if they thought it out like that considering the worst case is probably ofrhz goes to lylo with towncred. The only reason I see this as somewhat less likely at this point is that it requires them to think of and agree with the ideas that I'm mentioning here

⁴There's a possibility that crossed my mind that NSG is constantly AFK in daytalk and SS was recently yelling at her trying to get her attention. I read a game elsewhere once where one of the scums was trying hard in daytalk to coordinate things and his team was just not reading it. This would make 1371 740 etc. read differently.

⁵One possible explanation for the wagon on me is that they wanted to PR hunt and they were convinced that skitter and Drixx were both VT (note 981 was also made before these votes). Also notable that pin's entrance where he sussed Oxy+ofrhz+me and wanted to lynch Oxy first would lead to lynching me and not ofrhz if Oxy flips green.

On phone so can't really do selective quoting

In response to 1, I think I'm no longer "fine" with the skitter wagon

In response to 5, I've been more active in daychat than in the actual thread in one of my (few) scumgames.

[northsidegal]

Nsg yeah I know that wasn't my point/how I understood ruru

Oh idk what you mean then

[Scioness Sajj]

She said that softclaming VT at l-2 doesn't expose skitter to cc.
It is true for every stage of wagon that cc won't come through on VT.

She also said that everybody should fake claim VT and that's not a good idea.

[northsidegal]

soft vt claim was 914 At the time she had 2 votes on her, and her wagon never got past L-2, once with pin, oxy, mathdino on the wagon, and once with oxy, pin, ruru, and then again with oxy, ruru, pin after pin's wagon hop.

Why does it matter?

My initial sense was that an earlier vt claim would've been a play for the towniness of that claim to not get skitter lynched in the first place, whereas an L1 vt claim would be far more towny. Wondering if my intuition is correct there / how much we can trust the claim to be towny.

This is how I see it also, especially considering soft claiming VT at L-2 doesn't expose scum!skitter to CCs. Like VT, PR, and scum should probably all make that play I think?

Oh yeah this isn't right I think

It's just not something worth gambiting as pr or worth missing out on the opportunity as scum

[ruru]

I had no problem following Drixx's thoughts in 254 and I think Oxy took it out of the context/misread it and ofrhz panicked? I didn't like his reaction to the posts connecting him with Oxy (on which he has a townlean/townread? i'm not sure) and he went with some posts that were putting you in the spotlight (pin had his scum pool {you, oxy, ofrhz}) and he quoted 268 yet he didn't really find a reason to interact with you all this time? Seems like distracting in a way 'look at her she is scummy, not at me'.

I will add more on this when I will get to catching up and answering things from last night.

Do you mind also answering:


1. What made you suspect Oxy+ofrhz?
2. What did Drixx's post mean to you?

i sort of do. answers to both questions are in my iso that you have been allegedly reading

1. this have been talked about in detail. a whole convo between me and ofrhz. also the answer to this in the quoted post.
summary: ofrhz reaction to said post and the way he was talking to me earlier

2. if you are asking how I understood it, it has also be answered by me. someone connecting them at the hip was pintu and the rest is pretty self explanatory I believe.

No, it's not self explanatory, your posts are super unclear which is why I'm asking you to explain them

If Ofrhz is scum, then Oxy almost certainly is. That was a pretty blatant post connecting them at the hip.

So you mean that this part references 240?

I suppose it could be an intentional fake out... but that would require a tremendous level of self awareness to realize how he would react if he was paired with Oxy and someone pointed it out and then actually react exactly that way and hit all the right notes.

What does this part mean?

will you answer that one question I have asked you about NSG? or if you don't like it just share your read on NSG, thanks.

Which? I don't really have a read on her

[Scioness Sajj]

the one you've missed or dodged.

you had a read D1, though. what has chnaged? give me an explanation why you don't have a read on her

[Scioness Sajj]

internet is back!

She thinks you had a real incentive to target Mathdino last night. Because Mathdino had singled you out as the next player to lynch.

And why couldn't she say that?
The problem with showing things instead of saying things is that in a week time, or less, you will only remember what was implied (and your own conclusion) and not who have brought it up.

it boils down into not always starting threads of conversation unless she's directly asked or engaged
- 1409 is a great recent example - pin has ruru as #1 scum, and her response is just like "I don't agree but ok." This is similar to how she reacted D1 when I voted for her for the 2nd time.

People have found ruru scummy for how she reacted to my vote earlier, so if she were scum, I feel like she would've changed her reaction in 1409 to avoid further suspicion and engaged with pin there. But she didn't, and this consistency makes me think this is part of her personality.

personality part:
first - she can be passive and be town, she can be passive and she can be scum, she can be passive becuase she is scum, she can be lying about being passive.
you have no plausible reason to believe her but her word on it.

consider - scum is more likely than not to be passive becuase they don't want attention. it is hard for scum to scumhunt and engage people (engaging isn't really an issue for her, though)

i believe i was first and only person to bring the voting up (she has been scumread for other things by pintu and skitter). if scum is accused of something the worst thing they can do is to react to the pressure by changing behavior in question.

consistency part:

the passivness of her behavior only applies to low content votes.
she has been picking up lurkers and voting them, convinent for both scum and passive players.
she has been rather passive aggressive in her engagments e.g. - when she threated me that she would vote me if i wasn't answering question and half of her recent answers to my case, her vote on nsg and few other things.
she has not been passive at all when engaging with my case on her. she even omgus voted me (i think i dont remember her having any arguments why im scum).

[ruru]

the one you've missed or dodged.

Umm, can you not? Everyone else links posts that were missed, you can too.

you had a read D1, though. what has chnaged? give me an explanation why you don't have a read on her

I thought her early d1 was contentless, and I wanted her to read the game and post, but apparently she just doesn't want to read the game and nothing's going to change that, which seems like a losing strategy for both town and scum? So I don't know

[Scioness Sajj]

the one you've missed or dodged.

Umm, can you not? Everyone else links posts that were missed, you can too.

well, instead of posting asking me to elaborate on my explanation to the drixx's post you ask me to repeat myself on the problem itself, which is designed to fail because if I have explained something and it was understood I will explain it in the same way it was explained before. i.e. if you didn't understand it from my iso the first time around you won't understand it now. so you are either forcing me to repeat myself for the sake of repeating myself or didn't read my iso.
either way it is extremely not productive and you are stubborn about it so why should i go forward and make things easier for you?
(btw it was answered already, sort of. no need to look for it)

you had a read D1, though. what has changed? give me an explanation why you don't have a read on her

I thought her early d1 was contentless, and I wanted her to read the game and post, but apparently she just doesn't want to read the game and nothing's going to change that, which seems like a losing strategy for both town and scum? So I don't know

that's probably the towniest thing you have said so far
I mean you are right that NSG did not catch up on the game fully, but she is isoing and surely not actively lurking so I don't think it will lower her ability to solve the game.

[Oxy]

well, instead of posting asking me to elaborate on my explanation to the drixx's post you ask me to repeat myself on the problem itself, which is designed to fail because if I have explained something and it was understood I will explain it in the same way it was explained before. i.e. if you didn't understand it from my iso the first time around you won't understand it now. so you are either forcing me to repeat myself for the sake of repeating myself or didn't read my iso.

i lol'd. It's like we're acting out the same play, but switching up the roles.

Spoiler:

Time is a flat circle...

[Scioness Sajj]

Not at all the same

[ofrhz]

I remember the answer bc she answered in a long response to me, which would explain why ruru (or anyone really) missed it.

The gist was that Sajj, upon rereading Drixx’s post, said it didn’t make as much sense as she thought it did. The post that did make sense to her was Pin’s post.

It was an odd mix up because pin and Drixx were making different points. But I don’t know if it’s an honest mess up or opportunistic scum latching to whatever post superficially supports her theories. I remember calling this out as the only anomaly in Drixx’s unexplained reaction test.

[ofrhz]

* the post Sajj understood was pin’s post that said if Oxy was scum, I was also scum

[Scioness Sajj]

D2 ofrhz seems different to D1 ofrhz

Idk why tho

[Oxy]

I'll find you the post, but what she actually said was that she thought drixx was referring to pin's post when he said that a single post latched ofrhz and I at the hip. Which is weirder than what you have just explained, though the conclusion stays the same.

I'd love to hear about what, if anything, Sajj looked at when doing her own examination of whether ofrhz and I were a good possible team.

[Oxy]

actually i won't find you the post. too much work lol

[ofrhz]

Nbd I got you

447

[ofrhz]

How was 1686 the towniest thing ruru has posted all game?

[Scioness Sajj]

comparing me being unwilling to repeat myself becuase somebody ask me to say the same thngs twice but still doing so and you refusing to tell me what I misunderstood becuase I was conf scum for you on page 5 or so when you also did exactly same thing to skitter few pages ealier

and saying it is the same thing is borderline offensive

unless you are speaking about something else but i dont know what else you are reffering to

[Oxy]

it's exactly the same and lol at the conf scum part

and I'm admitting to doing the same thing, I'm just amused by it.

[Scioness Sajj]

keep telling yourself that :')