Newbie 1863: Rugby - Game Over

[TheGoldenParadox]

pagetop

[Nauci]

I'm sorry TGP I remember playing with you before but absolutely nothing about your posting style don't hate me

Also I thought about posting earlier but the morphine kicked in and I couldn't be bothered, but, it's been irking me like an itch in the back of my mind that James' first hunch was that the mod had forgotten to setup scumchat. I don't know how it pings me because it's such a nonsensical assumption but it just... does?

[DirtyDishSoap]

It would be the 3rd consecutive newb game where there's a large debate about whether or not the tracker claim has any merits behind it. We've both agreed previously we inherently disagree with the stratagem behind it. I don't think delving into it any further would bring about anything. That and it focuses on the mechanics rather than actually scum hunting.

Hi, how are you?

Mechanics can be used to gamesolve though - it's a fine conversation.

I'm fine.
I note you still don't appear to be doing anything except a mild complaint about a conversation.
Want to sheep me for yuks?

Agree to disagree.
Meh, just waiting for other players to rear their head.
<3 you but no.

Also I thought about posting earlier but the morphine kicked in and I couldn't be bothered, but, it's been irking me like an itch in the back of my mind that James' first hunch was that the mod had forgotten to setup scumchat. I don't know how it pings me because it's such a nonsensical assumption but it just... does?

Why the focus on scumchat? Seems like a silly thing to irk you.

[Nauci]

There's not much else to go on in this game yet

But it's not a focus on scumchat, it's a read on the specific reaction/expectation. Maybe it's just because he's new but it's weird to think I'd publicly ask about it because mod had forgotten to do one of the most critical components of a mafia game as a first assumption

[mhsmith0]

Replacing cedrick

[James Brafin]

tl:dr - this entire commentary block is all about introducing myself as the IC, blathering about my duties, and offering a basic idea of some of the strategy of the RVS. If this interests you, please read on (especially if this is your first time playing here) if not, feel free to skip.

Spoiler: IC Intro

===========================================================================================

Greetings,

I am Thor665 and I am the Inexperienced Challenged (IC) player of this group. What this means is first and foremost - I am here to play this game with you in a way that will show you what it is like to play on Mafiascum.net. I am here to win and should be treated as such.

My goals and the rules governing my actions are covered in this handy article: Being a good IC
That article is part of our amazing MafiaWiki System. I *highly* recommend this system as a good way to get your feet wet and to find out what a lot of the common abbreviations mean. There is a lot of play strategy discussed in there too. A lot of players consider that advice almost all outdated now. I don't recommend trying to run verbatim with anything there, but a lot of the basic advice is very good to at least be aware of as it can help you avoid blatant pitfalls as you become familiar with the game play here.

Now, as an IC I am here as a resource for you to ask questions of concerning game theory. I WILL NOT lie about game theory answers and will answer them to the best of my ability. I will also offer you the following quick pieces of advice;

1. Don't self vote. (there are really no points during a Newbie setup where this is a good idea, please avoid it however logical you may think it is)
2. This site frowns on lying if you are a vanilla town role. I strongly advise against lying if you have this role as usually it will only hurt town in the end.
3. It's a game - have fun.

We are now starting what is known as the RVS (random voting stage). We are in a low information period because scum already know who they are, and even have a rough idea of what power roles may or may not be in the game. It is now town's job to root them out. Because the start of the game leaves us with no information to start with generally the way to start is to begin voting and questioning other people to see if you can catch them doing something scummy (scummy actions being acts that a scum player is more likely to do then a town player).

From top to here, I'm comfortable. All normal IC stuff.

Ah, scum do have day chat apparently.

I don't think I've played against scum with day chat before, so I'm not sure how that changes the meta/strategy. Any thoughts, IC?

Some suggest it changes everything because *scum can plan!*
I suggest it changes very little except town getting paranoid about how much it changes.
I tend to ignore it, myself, doesn't appear to affect my scum spotting accuracy.

I feel like this is odd. Daychat does change things a lot. Scum no longer has to associate with one another, and therefore it makes it harder to hunt, esp. by association. It has nothing to do with planning; they can effectively go two completely different directions and screw up town royally.

(does it give too much info to scum? Is it easily faked? idk). I'm similarly against tracker claiming as I was against the previous "breaks." I'll let the IC explain this stuff though, because I don't think I can do it justice. And also because ICs are bound by the rules to tell the truth about theory.

The current "break" is not a "break".
It is a strategy that is not inherently bad.
I suggest that optimal Tracker play is to claim Day 2, but many would disagree with me both arguing earlier and later and no singular group is overwhelmingly correct (except me, my answer is the best).

Mabye this is just me, but this feels like it might be shading AtA a bit. The actual post isn't bad, it's the specific wording that is pining me a bit.

Vote: Nauci

Because I don't feel like allowing him to let personal feelings dictate votes instead of evidence.
Or maybe he's scum.
Win either way.

And this bothers me. We are in RVS; personal feeling is all we are voting on right no. No info, remember? This post feels conf-biased, a bit forced, and I honestly can't see teh town beifit from posting it. By far this is what has me the most concerned.

[James Brafin]

Oh, kk. Still suspect, but it's a valid albi.

Why would you expect scum to post in thread as opposed to, say, PMing the mod?

It's not that I expect scum to do it as much as I don't expect town to do it. If you believe what you say and don't think the daychat matters, don't YOU think it's odd they mentioned it?

That being said, Thor, I think the answer to your question in #16 is "Who is scum."

If that's true, why isn't he doing it?

A fine question. I will agree with the idea that he may be active lurking.

Also not a fan of post 15, I'll explain in a bit.

Cool, I look forward to the detailed and full analysis requiring the pause to collect your thoughts

I appreciate that. But it feels to me that you're trying to shade taht I'm trying to build a case without any basis. Is this correct?

[Nauci]

I hope you stick around on the site James. Seems like you'll be fun to play with!

[mhsmith0]

Meji Fan replaces Cedrick effective immediately.

[Nauci]

Welcome!

[Thor665]

I feel like this is odd. Daychat does change things a lot. Scum no longer has to associate with one another, and therefore it makes it harder to hunt, esp. by association. It has nothing to do with planning; they can effectively go two completely different directions and screw up town royally.

Can you describe an example of them doing this and why they could only do it with Daychat as opposed to scum play without daychat?
Because I can't think of one - but, like I said, some people disagree with me.
Also, you are aware that, as an IC, I'm actually not allowed to lie about game theory...and this is a game theory question, so by definition either my answer is my honest thoughts or you should report me to the mod.

Mabye this is just me, but this feels like it might be shading AtA a bit. The actual post isn't bad, it's the specific wording that is pining me a bit.

Again - not allowed to lie about game theory.
Also, how would me "shading" this game theory help me win as scum/hurt town exactly?

And this bothers me. We are in RVS; personal feeling is all we are voting on right no. No info, remember? This post feels conf-biased, a bit forced, and I honestly can't see teh town beifit from posting it. By far this is what has me the most concerned.

[/quote]
You don't understand the context of my response, that Nauci didn't react suggests she does.
Why did you decide it was scummy and call me out on it after multiple days as opposed to just asking 'hey, why did you do this?' and then getting my answer and calling *that* scummy ot townish?
You put the cart before the horse, yeah?

It's not that I expect scum to do it as much as I don't expect town to do it. If you believe what you say and don't think the daychat matters, don't YOU think it's odd they mentioned it?

I find it non-alignment telling, but I will admit my knee jerk response is town would be more willing to bring it up because they wouldn't think it would make them look scummy, whereas scum would be less likely to for the reverse reasons.

Why do you think scum would be more likely to do it?

I appreciate that. But it feels to me that you're trying to shade taht I'm trying to build a case without any basis. Is this correct?

[/quote]
I was absolutely trying to shade you - where you expecting me to agree that I look like scum regardless of my alignment, or to agree that you could have a remotely worthwhile case on me?

[Meji Fan]

Hello World!

Nauci made me feel welcome, so now I feel sad as Nauci is my current most favorite for scum what with just nice welcoming posts and some chat about the setup

[James Brafin]

I feel like this is odd. Daychat does change things a lot. Scum no longer has to associate with one another, and therefore it makes it harder to hunt, esp. by association. It has nothing to do with planning; they can effectively go two completely different directions and screw up town royally.

Can you describe an example of them doing this and why they could only do it with Daychat as opposed to scum play without daychat?
Because I can't think of one - but, like I said, some people disagree with me.
Also, you are aware that, as an IC, I'm actually not allowed to lie about game theory...and this is a game theory question, so by definition either my answer is my honest thoughts or you should report me to the mod.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=74985

Also, you could be giving bad advice while not lying about game theory, because you approached it as an opinion, not actual fact.

Mabye this is just me, but this feels like it might be shading AtA a bit. The actual post isn't bad, it's the specific wording that is pining me a bit.

Again - not allowed to lie about game theory.
Also, how would me "shading" this game theory help me win as scum/hurt town exactly?

I suggest that optimal Tracker play is to claim Day 2, but many would disagree with me both arguing earlier and later and no singular group is overwhelmingly correct (except me, my answer is the best).

Again, opinion, not fact.

And this bothers me. We are in RVS; personal feeling is all we are voting on right now. No info, remember? This post feels conf-biased, a bit forced, and I honestly can't see the town benefit from posting it. By far this is what has me the most concerned.

You don't understand the context of my response, that Nauci didn't react suggests she does.
Why did you decide it was scummy and call me out on it after multiple days as opposed to just asking 'hey, why did you do this?' and then getting my answer and calling *that* scummy or townish?
You put the cart before the horse, yeah?

I suppose I did. So then I will ask you, what WAS the point/context of your response?

It's not that I expect scum to do it as much as I don't expect town to do it. If you believe what you say and don't think the daychat matters, don't YOU think it's odd they mentioned it?

I find it non-alignment telling, but I will admit my knee jerk response is town would be more willing to bring it up because they wouldn't think it would make them look scummy, whereas scum would be less likely to for the reverse reasons.

Why do you think scum would be more likely to do it?

Because, imo, as town, why do we care about scum daychat, or multiball factions, or whatever? We don't (I don't, anyways); we only care about finding scum and getting them lynched. So when players estimate on scum numbers as a whole, I don't find it suspect, but any further and I always start asking "Why does town care at all?"

I appreciate that. But it feels to me that you're trying to shade that I'm trying to build a case without any basis. Is this correct?

[/quote]
I was absolutely trying to shade you - were you expecting me to agree that I look like scum regardless of my alignment, or to agree that you could have a remotely worthwhile case on me?[/quote]

No and no. I wasn't, however, expecting a shade on me not actually having a case and trying to look townie. It seems to me that genuine town would be interested in other reads, even if they are slightly delayed. I don't see that shade coming from town.

Vote: Thor665

Fairly confident in this.

[Nauci]

The formatting and broken quotes of these red bolded posts are getting increasingly confusing to parse

I don't even know what "suggest she does" means. Does what?

Why wouldn't town care about daychat? There's a lot of reads on associations that change if scum are able to coordinate via day chat vs not being able to. That changes how I read interactions significantly, at least. Like imagine if scum are IC+newbie (which I think was the case in one of the games I read recently). IC could give newbscum tons of advice in the PT so the newbie would be less likely to scumslip or whatever, or even have their posts pre-cleared in real time. I've always made a note of it openly because I think that people not being on the same page for our reads premises is anti-town.

I'm sorry but the formatting has me kinda lost as to why you scumread him. Can we cool it with either the red or the bold?

[teacher]

Greetings all. I am travelling through Sunday so have less time to quote and comment than I would like. Certainly looks like at least some will be active chatters, which is helpful for outing information - something that always helps town. I also like the RVS.

VOTE: nauci

Its an RVS for me, and one I am doubting, because of the silence so far. But there it is anyways. Happy weekend everyone.

[Meji Fan]

RVS and you plunk the 3rd right down on Nauci? And do tell on the 'silence', Nauci posted right afore you

[DirtyDishSoap]

James, can you break it down a bit better for the rest of us plebs?

[mhsmith0]

ImBad14 and CH4M3L30N have not picked up role PMs and will be replaced.

[mhsmith0]

Irrelephant11 and Flicker replace ImBad14 and CH4M3L30N respectively, effective immediately.

[Nauci]

Welcome Irrelephant and Flicker!

VOTE: teacher

Wtf

You can't just come in this late, long after non RVS discussion had begun, and lay a vote on a wagon while claiming randomness absolves you of responsibility or something. How can you doubt something random?

[Flicker]

Hey, all!

VOTE: James Brafin, partly as a policy lynch because of his posting style, partly because I don't like anyone who has that much confidence on a read this early.

I thought about sheeping Nauci's vote on teacher, but decided I don't feel comfortable sheeping anyone just yet. I do agree with her and Meji Fan that his vote is questionable. I also don't see how there's anything to like (or dislike) about RVS.

[mhsmith0]

Votecount 1.01

Irrelephant11 (1)

DirtyDishSoap ,

James Brafin (1)

Flicker ,

teacher (1)

Nauci ,

Nauci (3)

Meji Fan , Thor665 , teacher , L-2

Thor665 (1)

James Brafin ,

Not Voting (2)

Irrelephant11 , TheGoldenParadox ,

Not Voting (3)

Irrelephant11 , TheGoldenParadox , James Brafin ,

Day one deadline is Wednesday April 25th, 9 PM PST. (expired on 2018-04-25 21:00:00)

Mod note: Since I track votes in excel, I usually provide vote counts with links in them. It's a bit unusual compared to most mods, but I consider it a nice service for players. Sometimes I'll phone/ipad post a VC or the like and you won't get links, but usually you will.

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch!

[/size]

[Nauci]

Thank you so much! I really appreciate it!

That's actually how my there community keeps votecount and it's ridiculously useful.

Really slow game though. :/

I'm seeing Flicker's hesitation/self conciousness about sheeping or confident votes in the first 2 pages as towny, but damn there's really not much to go on in here.

[TheGoldenParadox]

I'm sorry TGP I remember playing with you before but absolutely nothing about your posting style don't hate me

pagetop

this? I did that for the memes
It was a dark and stormy night where you LYNCHED MY F*CKING SCUMPARTNER D1 AND THEN JODAXQ GOT A GUILTY ON ME D2.
pirates vs. ninjas was a very interesting game

[Irrelephant11]

Hey all! Excited and nervous to play my first game with you! Sadly I have super limited availability on weekends. I also see RVS is over, so I’ll try to come back with some reads and get hunting maybe even before the weekend is over.