Newbie 1859 (Game Over)

[pinturicchio]

Sorry, that came a little harsh... What I meant to say is, I'm not convinced at anything right now, sorry. Yes, I'm townleaning Scioness because I think skitter is town, and the interactions between them seems town from both of them. I'm frustrated because if skitter and scioness are town, I really don't fucking know what to do, and I'm trying to 1. Sort it out or 2. Sheep someone who seems to know what the fuck they're doing. The problem? No one seems to know what the fuck they're doing

[Scioness Sajj]

Scumreading and stop

Lmao

[ofrhz]

do you think i should

still be scumreading her

instead of you?

This also implies otherwise though.

[Scioness Sajj]

I know what I am doing
To some extent

Ruru is scum

[Scioness Sajj]

It is answer to your question where you asked why is stopped scumreading ruru.

I never said I did stop scumreading her. I switch wagons and you assumed I stopped scumreading ruru.

Stop trying to catch me lying and start scum hunting please

[Scioness Sajj]

you are reaching so hard to find reason to scumread

That I have to remind you what you wrote to me
Today

[ofrhz]

That is hypocrisy at its finest. This could've been avoided if you didn't respond to my question with a deliberately vague question

[Oxy]

do you think i should

still be scumreading her

instead of you?

This also implies otherwise though.

@Sajj He is right that this implies that you had stopped scum reading Ruru.

[Scioness Sajj]

Out of context yeah

In context it doesn't
Also two post later i have told him who are people in my scum pool and ruru was there

[skitter30]

Before this mini wagon formed on me, I was trying to metaread pin, and my only conclusions were that 1) he likes to lay traps as town and 2) his reasoning this game seems off (this isn't the circular reasoning thing that was brought up earlier). For point 2, this game, he would take a certain situation and draw a completely different conclusion than I would from it. ex: he thought if you were scum, ruru would be scum because of ruru's vote on you D1. Another ex is where he said an ofrhz/pin pairing is more likely because of our votes on ruru late in the day. I feel like he is trying to draw contrived conclusions.

I also have a nagging feeling that he was trying to pocket me. In his other games as town, he would call things out, but he didn't call them out this game when I did the same exact thing (I would explain more if I could, but I just spent like almost half an hour looking for the post and can't find it ugh). This isn't a lot for me to go off of though.

A) can you elaborate on why my vote on oxy feels similar to ruru's vote on scioness?

B) I kinda feel like pin's bizarre conclusions are a towntell tbh. Like his conclusions are kinda wacky, and I don't think it's a good way to form reads (cuz, like, once his original theory is disproven he has 70 pages to reread and reconsider) but they're internally consistent, and I feel like it would be too hard for scum to follow a contrived reads-method/process and have it all be internally consistent when they didn't actually believe the logic they were using cuz it was made-up. It's a lot easier to follow a bizarre thought-process if you actually think it makes sense, than, like, if you were conscious that you had made it up imo. Idk if I explained that well.

C) Idk if I see him pocketing you anywhere?

[Oxy]

your reactions today. most of them

Counter wagon that has just been created makes me wonder. may be just a hate thing/tunnel thing but who knows.

Or that thing with Mathdino being the nk. your overzealous defense of ruru.

PoE tells me there is scum in {you, ruru and oxy} +/- pintu & skitter. gotta sort you.

This kind of says you are still scum reading ruru a page later.

[ofrhz]

You said that was your scumpool by PoE?? I mean, I get that you're not townreading ruru, but you can see my confusion, yeah?

[skitter30]

Scioness's vote: Scioness's 1729 implies she is no longer scumreading ruru, but the one thing that led her to not scumreading ruru was something that doesn't make sense to me (I say so why in 1712). The timing of her votes are oddly in line with yours, but whereas I can believe your reasoning for now townreading ruru (your vote on Oxy feels like ruru's vote on Scioness in some ways), I can't say the same for her. I'd rather wait for Scioness to answer my question about why she stopped scumreading ruru before passing judgment, but she doesn't seem to want to answer my question until I help her figure out why she's finding me strange, which is just weird

1729 was her response to nsg asking the question: "if me/oxy/ruru are all town, who are the possible scumteams".

I don't think she dropped her scumread, so much as suspended it temporarily to answer NSG.

[skitter30]

I feel like I've circled back to oxy/ofrzh

[ofrhz]

A) can you elaborate on why my vote on oxy feels similar to ruru's vote on scioness?

I thought you were building up to keep pushing ruru. ruru seems more viable given fewer people were townreading her. Then you decided to swing to Oxy when he did something inexplicably scummy in your eyes, even if that's kinda the harder push to go for.
ruru similarly has been building up to voting for you. But she didn't and instead focused her game on Scioness when she thought Scioness's responses were more scummy even though not that many people were seriously looking at Scioness.

B) <snip>

point B kinda makes sense. I did notice that he has the tendency to scumhunt by thinking through scumteam associations as town, so that part is consistent.

C) Idk if I see him pocketing you anywhere?

This was a hunch based on him letting certain things slide whereas he would call them out in his other games

pedit: @skitter, yeah I realize that now

[Scioness Sajj]

No, I don't think there should be any confusion if you didn't assume things that weren't said.

You didn't ask me if I stopped scumreading ruru you asked how I stopped scumreading her so quickly.

[ofrhz]

Okay, my bad

[Scioness Sajj]

Skitter - what do you think about the way Oxy has pushed a 1 v 1 with you?

[skitter30]

Which time? The first time (ie post Drixx wagon), or second time (ie after I called him out on setting up a 1v1 between you and ofrhz)?

(There may have been another time in between; honestly I don't remember.)

[skitter30]

@ofrhz, I feel like your scumread on pin right now is kinda reach-y tbh.

[Scioness Sajj]

Oh sorry, associated the drixx thing with ruru more than Oxy.

The thing that happened after you called him out.

[skitter30]

Kinda gross. He reacted to me voting him by calling me scummy and ignoring my (legimate) points about why that would lead to a sub-optimal gamestate.

You're deliberately promoting a suboptimal gamestate for your own amusement. This is probably the scummiest thing that has happened all game imo, and instead of defending your position (ie explaining why the 1v1 should happen given that it will likely induce apathy), you're calling me scummy for calling you out on your bullshit.

(I do admit I read to much into his 'amusement' quote, so that phrase is no longer relevant)

Also was framing my POV there as me trying to not get lynched when *I had literally basically asked to get lynched the day before*, so that was a blatant misrep. I still don't understand why he doesn't understand my point (ie the effect that he wanted - scioness and ofrzh sorting each other - was happening *without* the 1v1 he was trying to promote, so the 1v1 would yield no direct benefit).

Also it's weird that he decided that you were the scummier of the two of us and voted for you just shortly after I moved my vote off of him.

[Scioness Sajj]

Yeah the scumread felt forced. He reacted in really similar why when I voted him for the first time D1 though.

What do you think of ruru's approach to Oxy? Defending him, doing what he asks (my ISO), never questioning him?

I guess I'm asking if you think that she's pocketed him.

[skitter30]

I think he pocketed her.

[Scioness Sajj]

Ugh, yeah I guess that works too.

I will have to reread.