Gunner Mafia [Endgame]

[Gorkington]

it makes me sad that you just deflated how excited i was about pushing panoptic with one post that was likely an afterthought for you to make.
lol.

[Centipede Syndrome]

If it makes you feel better I don't usually offer or even consider checking over other people's meta work.
I don't think highly of many players, but you're one of them.
This ego rubbing is both honest with the not-so-ulterior motive that it's hopefully some motivation for you to shift back to maria.

Peace out.

[Gorkington]

it was admittedly a pretty lazy meta job.
i just really really dont feel like hes town
q.q

zzzzzzzzz

vote: maria

[Gorkington]

i cant tell whats more slick, your scumgame, or your towngame
(god i really hope youre town here elli q.q)

[Thor665]

Haven’t ducked anything. You just haven’t read.

I think you're lying (again) quote it to prove me wrong?

Thor explain to me how it makes sense for scum!CS to claim a fake guilty?

I don't think it would make sense.
That said - he's not claiming a guilty, he's claiming a super strong read.
I am willing to dance with that game, you are not - but explain to me this one, if he's wrong - how do you analyze a blind wagon where they can claim read?
That should tell you all you need to know about my vote placement.

why are you not looking at the horrible reasons for the chill wagon @Thor?

Because I don't think it looks, nor looked gross.
Now you can read me in association with your thoughts on the wagon and my willingness to join it.

[Creature]

Yeah, MariaR is a cool lynch.

[Creature]

We can lynch MariaR and then lynch Srceen and the worst

[Spiffeh]

I don't town read Maria but I don't scum read her either

Although I don't really know who is scum

I just think this wagon is stupid and am against it on principle because people are basically naked voting and getting away with not having to explain themselves because Elli knows everything and it's annoying (CheekyTeeky, Tchill, probably others)

[Spiffeh]

Also if the worst does nothing substantial today he gets policy lynched tomorrow no questions asked

[Spiffeh]

This is where I'm up to:

{Creature, Beeboy, Gorkington}
{Thor, Spiffeh, Hopkirk, Brigand Vvolf, Brian Skies, Toranaga}
{Bins, Srceenplay, Quick, TheWorst}
{Ausuka, MariaR, GreyICE, Nero Cain}
{Panopticon, Centipede, TChill}

This is from Cheeky's last post before she starts going after Maria because "Elli has a guilty"

Centipede is on the lowest tier and Maria is a step above. So going from scum reading Centipede to trusting them unconditionally at least warrants some kind of explanation?

[CheekyTeeky]

theres also some part of me that doesnt like that a maria wagon based entirely on elli's rep and cheeky saying "UR SCUM IF U DONT" basically gives all of these players an excuse to jump on the wagon without actually putting anything behind their vote, which makes the wagon especially hard to hold anyone accountable to that isnt elli on d2 if it flips town.

I had the same issue with Chess and the way he pushed a 1v1 with the elli guilty. Regardless town ended up lynching scum 3/4 days to win even with a substantial lack of wagons. Accountability is more obvious than you think later down the track. Also we have 80 other pages of content to tack on to wagon reactions

I don't think it would make sense.
That said - he's not claiming a guilty, he's claiming a super strong read.
I am willing to dance with that game, you are not - but explain to me this one, if he's wrong - how do you analyze a blind wagon where they can claim read?
That should tell you all you need to know about my vote placement.

An Elli-tell is strong enough to be considered a guilty from my pov plus just look at how MariaR is obv scumming in response, hiding behind an important PR claim and pleading for more time instead of doing anything to dissolve the wagon or push back at us. This is not even a slight concern to me.

But to humour you, let's say it fails. We then lynch Elli which guarantees you a scumflip imo. Elli had referenced TM2018 early game and knows full well what happened in Inventions mafia would make at least Creature, Screen, Beeboy and I consider his claim on MariaR an instaguilty and would have done so intentionally as scum to get a mislynch on Maria on whom he had some magical PR reading ability.

Either way if we lynch Elli or mariaR it guarantees us a scumflip by EOD2 and we can work from there.

[CheekyTeeky]

This is where I'm up to:

{Creature, Beeboy, Gorkington}
{Thor, Spiffeh, Hopkirk, Brigand Vvolf, Brian Skies, Toranaga}
{Bins, Srceenplay, Quick, TheWorst}
{Ausuka, MariaR, GreyICE, Nero Cain}
{Panopticon, Centipede, TChill}

This is from Cheeky's last post before she starts going after Maria because "Elli has a guilty"

Centipede is on the lowest tier and Maria is a step above. So going from scum reading Centipede to trusting them unconditionally at least warrants some kind of explanation?

I feel like the explanation is implicit in my posting and am a little concerned that you're not seeing it. I don't believe Scum CS would claim the "guilty" and I'm completely reevaluating my reads based on this. Can you please join us?

[Spiffeh]

Look, Centipede (Elli) called a guilty on MariaR. Imo this guilty is 100% legitimate because I've seen the results first hand in Team Mafia. I see no reason for scum!CS to do this as it would be suicidal if fake and the wagon on MariaR went through. Today we should be lynching in those two.

Ok, I see that this is the explanation

Pretty awful logic though!

Elli being right about a read before doesn't mean he's right about this one

If Maria flips town does this confirm Centipede as scum in your mind?

[CheekyTeeky]

Lol I'll let you catch up.

[Thor665]

@Cheeky - so the tell is good enough to be a guilty "for you" but you're going to waste time asking why it's not good enough for others? Shouldn't that be self-evident if you agree it's not an actual guilty claim but simply a strong read?
I don't think MariaR's behavior post the case on her is brilliant enough to dissuade a wagon - though I will note that you're saying she hasn't done anything to stop the case on her, and that's total BS. What case is she supposed to argue against? What issue are people wagoning her on she can debate? A PR claim is literally all I think she could do besides just exploding into a mountain of scumhunting - so why are you talking about this like it's a tell? I can see it not being good enough to change minds to townreads, but it *IS NOT* good enough to change minds to scum reads. It bothers me you're acting like it is.

The solution of chaining a lynch after offering a read does not fill me with joy either as a strategy.
I'll be over here on the counter wagon washing my hands

[Spiffeh]

Oh ok so you're basically saying that Maria and Elli is TvS no matter what

I disagree with the course of action that you're suggesting because I think Centipede is probs town regardless but I at least see where you're coming from

[CheekyTeeky]

Ughhhhhhhhh you had to be there this is the winning strategy!!! I am super excited to play in another game with this and I shared all the same scepticism as you guys but just read the effing game! Kthnx.

[Gorkington]

i do kind of think that if maria had some kind of strong PR like shes saying she would be way more angry at the push on her.

spiff, i know you were sk so you didnt really care in kidney mafia, but does it not kind of feel like maria's trying to use her claim as a shield in the same kind of way that arcade pals did there?

[CheekyTeeky]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=127&t=74689

[Spiffeh]

Gork I really didn't pay attention in Kidney, I'll try to look at it later

I do agree that hinting at a PR and doing literally nothing else is p. sketchy

[Spiffeh]

I struggle to see how a game from Team Mafia, which Elli hosted and couldn't participate in, is supposed to convince me that his reads are basically guilties?

I am obviously missing something

[CheekyTeeky]

Yes Chesskid used it and explains it but sorry I think you have to wade through 600 posts...luckily he has a tendency to repeat himself.

[Gorkington]

shes referring to chesskid's ISO.
its not really important because elli isnt alleging to be using the program shes referring to here. i think elli's got a pretty solid track record for sniffing out scum and aside from a few small things that are bugging me i kind of overly think hes town atm?

or at least definitely more town than maria
and i dont think he tanks his rep in this game in a trade for maria.

and i also dont think he tanks his rep in this game as town if he isnt relatively confident about it.
unless you have a really solid idea of who scum is beyond him, i think maria's probably the right call here?

[CheekyTeeky]

Chesskid said he used Elli's program.

[Gorkington]

elli isnt using it here, so i dont know why you keep telling people that its important that we sheep based on inventions mafia?