Newbie 1863: Rugby - Game Over

[Oxy]

Teacher, do you have stats on players talking directly to another player?

If so, how many players has thor spoken directly to?

[Oxy]

and to whom has he spoken the least?

I'm assuming you would have done this by slot rather than player (if you've done it at all)

[Thor665]

I've spoken directly to all the slots expect Flicker.
Flicker would be the least communicated to slot.

[Oxy]

Yeah, okay, thanks mate.

[Irrelephant11]

Thanks for this. I'm in agreement on your premises, but not on your conclusion so much. I think this is all probably in AvgNewbie's scum range.

What's missing between the premises and conclusion? Town-like actions --> Townish read, no? Put another way, what about my list points toward "AvgNewbie's scum" rather than town?

I just wrote a whole bunch. Moving it into a nother post

[Irrelephant11]

To respond to Teacher, even though he never really asked me a question ("I hope those in the first paragraph will provide some broader reads and explain them" is passive aggressive af like hello I'm in the room):

I've already said I like Flicker, and liked DDS (unclear on Oxy, but aside from his read on Flicker there's nothing I dislike there yet). Both of them for providing helpful analysis on other players, actively looking for scum, etc.

Apparently we're all just gonna collectively have a null on Thor, so (my reason: saw him as scummy, then took a step back and saw there wasn't as much there. Experienced player is experienced) Nauci is nuller than scummy, too - her tone has been scum read by some, but being slightly abrasive hs not stopped her from providing reads, analysis, questions, etc. to a similar extent as Thor.

I feel bad about JB and you, for reasons already listed but I might re-analyze and re-summarize later.

I didn't like TGP and don't like Meji for their lack of content overall, but neither one is guaranteed scum for being quiet. waiting for more from both slots before deciding if there's actually anything scummy there. For lack of information, null.

If I had to push some players out of the null zone, I'd probably say Not Known 15 and Nauci feel more to me like town than Thor and Meji. I reserve the right to change my mind on this later though.

Even if I haven't used the word "read", I've definitely implied how I feel about more than four players, so saying that I've only really discussed four players annoys me. I'm also not clear on why saying "I don't have a read on _______" is better than not saying it in the first place. Some players haven't said much, so my read on them has mainly been "answer my question pelase."

[Oxy]

Thanks for this. I'm in agreement on your premises, but not on your conclusion so much. I think this is all probably in AvgNewbie's scum range.

What's missing between the premises and conclusion? Town-like actions --> Townish read, no? Put another way, what about my list points toward "AvgNewbie's scum" rather than town?

I just wrote a whole bunch. Moving it into a nother post

Nothing in your list points towards scum.

But I don't think those posts come significantly more often from town than from scum.

Take 76 - You said this was more likely to come from town because scum wouldn't really care about your theory since it didn't involve them.

I agree that this can come from a town motivation and perspective, but I think that scum!AvgNewbie can also make this post easily.

[Irrelephant11]

@Thor, Nauci, Meji Fan: you three have some experience. Is there much to be learned from this flip on JB:

Spoiler:

i literally forgot this game existed sorry
Right now I'm reading Nauci as slight town lean. She looks to be playing a similar game to Pirates vs. Ninjas but slightly better, doesn't look like she's a different alignment.
I also read James Brafin as town because of his attention and tryhardiness towards the game which is producing a plethora of game content for others to respond to. I also suspect Thor for that I'M AN IC AND I DON'T LIE stuff, it kinda looks like he's scum that slipped and is now trying to get by with that.
VOTE: Thor

Here are my suspects so far:
Flicker.
Here I am sheeping the case of Oxy against them.
MejiFan.
I don't like their obsession of Nauci; they seem to focused on them. This frequently happens to scum, there is a difference between town tunneling and scum "tunneling" and this looks like the latter.
James Brafin.
James is flip-flopping their votes and they give me a bad feeling.
VOTE: James Brafin

or Oxy's totall flip on DDS's Flicker read?

pedit: Hm. Okay, well anyway I'm still not seeing scum there yet. What do you think of JB after NK15's recent response to you?

[teacher]

even though he never really asked me a question ("I hope those in the first paragraph will provide some broader reads and explain them" is passive aggressive af like hello I'm in the room):"

ummm...it was a question? It called you (and Thor, and Meji) out by name? Just missing what is aggravating. Sorry for it, but dont know what not to do next time.

I've already said I ... liked DDS

Adonde? You liked his post 126, but the only time you mentioned him was early, for not participating. You had not shared a read before.

Even if I haven't used the word "read", I've definitely implied how I feel about more than four players, so saying that I've only really discussed four players annoys me.

Implications can be more easily walked back. Sharing an explicit read is a firmer data point. And its firmer even if its null, because you often share what actions are shading the null. Maybe its me, but I feel like I gained information from your 205, which is always good, even if it added nulls.

@Oxy - I dont know how you count talked directly to -- initiated conversation? Responded to questions? Just clear steering? Given this, I cant provide an answer.

[teacher]

I think most players will tell you that trying to judge associations

prior to seeing any flips

is less effective than sorting players by individual play.

But the information gathered today is not just used today. I think establishing associations early is something good that can be returned to after the coming flips. This, btw, is why I asked Elephant Thor and Meiji for more associational data. I dont think it particularly helps today's hunting, but it definitely helps tomorrow's. To be perfectly frank, Im not a great day one hunter. Not only are the odds on a town lynch but also ISOs standing alone can be led by individual idiosyncrazies (I just like that spelling), such as Nauci's drugs and what I see as James's general aversion to authority and personal defensiveness, rather than roleshading. With alot more experience I might be better at sorting AI from idiosyncrazy, but right now Im not.

[Irrelephant11]

even though he never really asked me a question ("I hope those in the first paragraph will provide some broader reads and explain them" is passive aggressive af like hello I'm in the room):"

ummm...it was a question? It called you (and Thor, and Meji) out by name? Just missing what is aggravating. Sorry for it, but dont know what not to do next time.

"Irrelephant, please share your reads on ___, ___, ___" comes across better to me than "I hope those people I mentioned will provide reads". If it says anything about your alignment, it's that you've set yourself up to follow up or not follow up on us later, at your convenience - a scummy move that cares more about looking like you want information than the information iself.

But I'm willing to admit this one is probably just my personal communication preference.

I guess I remembered "I like your 126" as "I like your 126, feels towny" (which is practically the same anyway).

There's more I could talk about here, but I've got questions waiting for answers so I'm gonna peace out for a bit and hope some other players show up.

[Flicker]

Oxy:

My read on James - overly confident, has an odd read list that's heavily lopsided towards scum (post #131), and re-skimming his ISO, it seems like he's trying to build up his own authority while tearing down others' (e.g. in post #85, when he says "I can't believe I'm saying this, but this counts as discussing ongoing games" re: Thor hinting at playing another game with Nauci, when it seems like the mod only called out DDS for it) (there's also been a couple comments directed at me with an air of "take my advice, I know what I'm talking about").

My read on you is a conflicted null, because I don't know what to make of you or your case against me, in comparison to my read on DDS.

Teacher:

I think you misread 120.

B) My DDS town read was based on his inactivity in this game vs. his higher activity in Newbie 1856, when he was scum. It seemed like the pressure of being scum motivated him to post, whereas here his lack of posting might be un-pressured town. Now that he's clarified that he's just been busy, I guess I was wrong, which means I fold him in with the other quiet posters as an IDK read.

"IDK read" = null read.

[Oxy]

What do you think of JB after NK15's recent response to you?

I'll answer this after we get the post James promised us yesterday.

[teacher]

I think you misread 120.

Da nke. Misread indeed. And I get the reason, too - Im towning you more and more.

As for the style, I will be more explicit with questions. Thus, in case it wasnt clear, @Thor and @Meji - can you share broader reads and reasons even if they are nulls?

[James Brafin]

Okay, catch-up time.

Here are my suspects so far:
Flicker.
Here I am sheeping the case of Oxy against them.
MejiFan.
I don't like their obsession of Nauci; they seem to focused on them. This frequently happens to scum, there is a difference between town tunneling and scum "tunneling" and this looks like the latter.
James Brafin.
James is flip-flopping their votes and they give me a bad feeling.
VOTE: James Brafin

It's the thor-unvote-thor that you're not liking, ya?

Yes, Brafin says

Vote: Thor665
Fairly confident in this.

then

And I'm going to unvote because really, there is no reason for my vote to be where it is right now.
UNVOTE:
Not comfortable enough to put it somewhere else though.

I'm reading Nauci as town-lean Elephant and Thor as scum-lean, and all else as null atm,

unvoting the top and only scumread without good explanation, what is the town motivation for this?
"Hey, this one is most sus but I will unvote them!" This is likely scum. Did you ever see a townie act like that?

Then Brafin notices the problem, probably, and tries to fix it one post after that:

Now totally confident this is scum.
VOTE: Thor

the progression does not make sense.
Next is this shit:

A) I didn't do it to be annoying; I did it when I quote lots of stuff to make it easier to read. I'm going to take Irrelephant's advice tho and start just leaving the post number and comments. But regardless, this is a massive misrep and Attack on Person. Not to mention we aren't DISCUSSING stratagem, so I have no idea where that came from.
B) There's also an Attack on Person on Nauci. DDS seems to be trying to make players seem inept and their opinion trivial simply on the grounds that "they are bad posters." While the complaints about her being sick are a tad bothersome, they don't warrant THAT.
C) Aren't YOU discussing stratagem in your post, in your paragraph about NOT discussing stratagem? Besides, we are far beyond that topic. Only YOU are still hung up over it; my reasoning is that Thor could make opinion sound like fact because of his IC role. It is NOT a strat discussion.
D) That was obviously a joke, not a scumslip. He's not "lied multiple times," he's making a humorous statement, and I think you know it. This is a crappy placeholder vote.

A refuses to acknowledge that DDS never said that it was scummy, just annoying; and annoying town is anti-town. A massive misrep is far from that.
B refuses to acknowledge that DDS said that it makes them badly readable and annoying, not necessarily scum. An AOP on these grounds- how is it AI?
C looks really like a misrep. DDS told them that they differ on them on the opinion that IC strat is AI/NAI. Additionally, if Brafin continues to use that as argument, why can't DDS tell them that it is in their opinion invalid?
D jumps on a clarified misunderstanding. Why?

Scumlean:
Thor

How did we get there from

totally confident

?

We'll start with this: What is this shit? First, we have assumption before narrative.
Then, he's sheeping Oxy's EXISTENT case on flicker, but he votes me.

I waffled on Thor for two reasons:
1) My vote was helping no one where it was. It was just as untownie to leave it on a useless wagon, when I could be helping town.
2) Other than his "opinions as fact" stuff, there's really not that much hard evidence against Thor on a reread. I got Confbiased on him tho and voted him anyways. I'm beginning to lean town for him now.

Then we have a tactic change, and he goes at me with a chainsaw against DDS.
A) Let's make something very clear:

WHEN YOU SAY SOMEONE DOES SOMETHING FOR ONE REASON, AND THEY DIDN'T, THAT IS A MISREP.

I was never trying to be annoying, I never phrased my words to make it look like I was trying to be annoying. So yes, it was a misrep, and an AoP to boot. And since when is annoying town anti-town? I have played with town that made me rage (mulch) but they were still town.
B) It brings in irrelevant personal information or arguments about the opponent, in an attempt to distract either the opponent or the audience. (From the wiki)
An AoP is ALWAYS scummy, because it tries to make other players look bad based on outside information not relevant to the game.
C) No one has continued on the topic of IC strategies. since the first page. Where the frick is this coming from? That is NOT my argument.
D) If he understood that, why did he not move his vote?

I want this lynched so bad it's not even funny.

@Oxy,

A) Ignoring the "partly as a policy lynch", since it's obvious (to me atleast) that that wasn't really the main reason for her vote - it was JB's high confidence that he'd found scum so early, which I also thought was bad.

B)As someone with scum reads on both Teacher and JB, I totally understand doing her best to vote whichever one it seems like town is voting for. Like, enough townies do have to agree at some point, so this doesn't seem to say much for her either way

C) Said in 120 (the same post) that "Now more people vote for James?" was a joke.

D) I feel like I read somewhere on the wiki that copying your towniest read's vote (that's what sheeping is, yes?) is sometimes good strategy? Because if you can get a majority group who are definitely town voting together, the odds of hitting town are much lower than random. Idk, since she didn't actually sheep I don't see your problem with it. What would be the scum motivation for staying on Teacher, or for mentioning-but-then-not sheeping Nauci?

E) "Very last post called Nauci null and opined about the possibility of a Nauci scum team." huh? not seeing this. Or knowing what it means. In fact if anything it seems Flicker has been kind of weirdly consistently confident that Nauci is town all game. What are you saying here?

I would like to point out that don't you think it's weird that Flicker has been that confident on a slot that is rather null? I feel like that's a bit scum-aligned from Flicker; she doesn't like that I'm confident, but then has this weird confidence going on herself, and hers has little basis.

Oxy:

My read on James - overly confident, has an odd read list that's heavily lopsided towards scum (post #131), and re-skimming his ISO, it seems like he's trying to build up his own authority while tearing down others' (e.g. in post #85, when he says "I can't believe I'm saying this, but this counts as discussing ongoing games" re: Thor hinting at playing another game with Nauci, when it seems like the mod only called out DDS for it) (there's also been a couple comments directed at me with an air of "take my advice, I know what I'm talking about").

Are you scumreading me?

Also, flicker "likes" NK15 with two posts with any content, one of which is heavy ABN and the other is crap. That makes me super happy. *sarcasm*

So here's what I'm thinking:
First, I'm getting the feeling that DDS was jsut a very emotional, gutsy, and (dare I say it) anti-town townie, because Oxy comes in and pretty much cleans up the slot, and he strikes me as town for sure.

I'm null-reading Elepahnt now, same with Thor. There's just not enough evidence to justify a vote on either one of them.

But my scumread on NK15 is so hard it's not even funny. Consider it a death tunnel.
As For flicker, her play isn't any better and then she goes and associates herself with NK15, gets friendly with them, and encourages them. It reads to me as a reminder from NK15's scumbuddy that he's still here and not to vote him. Because honestly, what town wants to be friends with an ABN, chainsaw-defending, bad-argument slot? Combined with the fact that NK voted for

me

with no case on them instead of

Flicker

with a decent case on them, I think I know where our scumteam is.

VOTE: NK15

And watch the flak come in for changing my vote again. But there will be no misrep or confusion on why I did it this time.

[teacher]

@JB - I dont disagree with the NK vote. That slot had been inactive, and NK didnt provide much info (esp. as compared to Oxy) after arrival. But I do not appreciate your not answering several questions put to you. Speaking of, heres another one: Can you articulate the case on Flicker again?

I also, FWIW, disagree with you on the def of a misrep. We know very few peoples motives here. We can read into their posts as we will, and suggest potential motivations. It is not a misrep if the reads/assumptions are wrong, as they are simply assumptions. It is a misrep if the motives were explained, and then mischaracterized. For a good example of a misrep - though it was inadvertent - my suggestion that Flicker defended a DDS townread in 120, whereas the reality is that he backed away from it. Flicker would have been right to call it misreppy (but didnt, which I appreciate). You have used Misrep alot so far this game, and I have disagreed with almost every instance.

[Oxy]

Thanks, James. I've got a couple follow-up questions.
1) Could you please explain why you go from the first quote to the second quote? (emphasis mine)

I want this lynched so bad it's not even funny.

But my scumread on NK15 is so hard it's not even funny. Consider it a death tunnel.

As For flicker, her play isn't any better and then she goes and associates herself with NK15, gets friendly with them, and encourages them. It reads to me as a reminder from NK15's scumbuddy that he's still here and not to vote him. Because honestly, what town wants to be friends with an ABN, chainsaw-defending, bad-argument slot? Combined with the fact that

NK voted for me with no case on them instead of Flicker with a decent case on them, I think I know where our scumteam is.

2) Could you please tell me what you believe the phrase ABN means, and why it applies to NK's argument? I think I'm probably being dense here, but please humor me.

[Oxy]

ebwop: I should have clarified; the first quote refers to Thor's slot.

[Oxy]

Sorry (maybe) for multipost

@James You might consider this part of Teacher's question, but I want to make sure you address it. How, and on which slot, has Flicker shown overconfidence?

[Flicker]

Are you scumreading me?

... why do you even have to ask?

And if you're so sure that

I'm

scum all of a sudden (you've been pretty null on me until now), why not vote me instead? Wouldn't teaming up with Oxy be more productive than trying to create a new wagon this far into the day? Or did you not notice that Nauci moved her vote to teacher?

[teacher]

Just to put the question out there, because I found it suspect, @NK - why did you pressure to L-1 half-way through the day?

[Not Known 15]

Okay, catch-up time.

We'll start with this: What is this shit? First, we have assumption before narrative.

Please explain.

Then, he's sheeping Oxy's EXISTENT case on flicker, but he votes me.

Sheeping something means that I'd be happy to follow that path and basically agree on a case without having any other arguments. Not that I have to vote for it if I have a stronger scumread.

I waffled on Thor for two reasons:
1) My vote was helping no one where it was. It was just as untownie to leave it on a useless wagon, when I could be helping town.
2) Other than his "opinions as fact" stuff, there's really not that much hard evidence against Thor on a reread. I got Confbiased on him tho and voted him anyways. I'm beginning to lean town for him now.

This does not add up.

It is blatantly obvious that 1 is a lie

.It was untownie to leave it on a useless wagon, and because of that you unvoted Thor in one post and then,

in the very next post of the game- not just of yours, the game

you voted thor again. This makes me very sure that your

read progression is made up.

You are scum.

Then we have a tactic change, and he goes at me with a chainsaw against DDS.

A chainsaw in itself is null.

A) Let's make something very clear:

WHEN YOU SAY SOMEONE DOES SOMETHING FOR ONE REASON, AND THEY DIDN'T, THAT IS A MISREP.

I was never trying to be annoying, I never phrased my words to make it look like I was trying to be annoying. So yes, it was a misrep, and an AoP to boot. And since when is annoying town anti-town? I have played with town that made me rage (mulch) but they were still town.

If you wouldn't have already claimed scum, I'd ask you to be more precise about what exactly the misrep is.

B) It brings in irrelevant personal information or arguments about the opponent, in an attempt to distract either the opponent or the audience. (From the wiki)
An AoP is ALWAYS scummy, because it tries to make other players look bad based on outside information not relevant to the game.

Except that information is very relevant to the game. The mood state of a player is very valuable information. And it is also not irrelevant when something irritates someone, or hinders their reads. It looks to me like "stop this plz it disrupts the game" and that is valid to say.

C) No one has continued on the topic of IC strategies. since the first page. Where the frick is this coming from? That is NOT my argument.

This is not true:

Gamechanging =/= we should care. We can't actually glean anything from daychat. We can't glean anything from multiball. I personally think that we shouldn't care about that as town.
But that's just my opinion.

D) If he understood that, why did he not move his vote?

No idea- unfortunately we cannot ask them now. However, it was not their only reason for voting Teacher, and they said it was a placeholder.

I want this lynched so bad it's not even funny.


But my scumread on NK15 is so hard it's not even funny. Consider it a death tunnel.
As For flicker, her play isn't any better and then she goes and associates herself with NK15, gets friendly with them, and encourages them. It reads to me as a reminder from NK15's scumbuddy that he's still here and not to vote him. Because honestly, what town wants to be friends with an ABN, chainsaw-defending, bad-argument slot? Combined with the fact that NK voted for

me

with no case on them instead of

Flicker

with a decent case on them, I think I know where our scumteam is.

VOTE: NK15

And watch the flak come in for changing my vote again. But there will be no misrep or confusion on why I did it this time.

Yeah I am not confused why. You want to eliminate strong town.

Just to put the question out there, because I found it suspect, @NK - why did you pressure to L-1 half-way through the day?

It is usually not a good idea to wait until the end for L-1. Also, I thought that Brafin would need more pressure.
In a semi-open, especially, you don't want to wait too long. You need a buffer in the case that the lynch target claims a power role.
You don't lynch a uncounterclaimed power role Day 1. If you wait too long then the lynch against someone else will be rushed, especially because you need to clarify if anyone has a CC. And then there are replacements. This can easily take some days alone.

[James Brafin]

@JB - I dont disagree with the NK vote. That slot had been inactive, and NK didnt provide much info (esp. as compared to Oxy) after arrival. But I do not appreciate your not answering several questions put to you. Speaking of, heres another one: Can you articulate the case on Flicker again?

I also, FWIW, disagree with you on the def of a misrep. We know very few peoples motives here. We can read into their posts as we will, and suggest potential motivations. It is not a misrep if the reads/assumptions are wrong, as they are simply assumptions. It is a misrep if the motives were explained, and then mischaracterized. For a good example of a misrep - though it was inadvertent - my suggestion that Flicker defended a DDS townread in 120, whereas the reality is that he backed away from it. Flicker would have been right to call it misreppy (but didnt, which I appreciate). You have used Misrep alot so far this game, and I have disagreed with almost every instance.

1) I'm not sure I understand what questions I missed. I have been skimming a lot tho so if you could point them out, I'll answer them. The Flicker case I'll elaborate on in a bit, but I'd be happy to! It just really needs its own post.
2) While I don't agree with your opinion, it is your opinion and I will respect that. However, it feels to me that there's a lot of lack of reading between the lines this game, and that might be part of it.

Thanks, James. I've got a couple follow-up questions.
1) Could you please explain why you go from the first quote to the second quote? (emphasis mine)

I want this lynched so bad it's not even funny.

But my scumread on NK15 is so hard it's not even funny. Consider it a death tunnel.

As For flicker, her play isn't any better and then she goes and associates herself with NK15, gets friendly with them, and encourages them. It reads to me as a reminder from NK15's scumbuddy that he's still here and not to vote him. Because honestly, what town wants to be friends with an ABN, chainsaw-defending, bad-argument slot? Combined with the fact that

NK voted for me with no case on them instead of Flicker with a decent case on them, I think I know where our scumteam is.

Those both apply to NK15. If I'm not being blatant enough, I think Flicker is his partner.

2) Could you please tell me what you believe the phrase ABN means, and why it applies to NK's argument? I think I'm probably being dense here, but please humor me.

Assumption Before Narrative.

Sorry (maybe) for multipost

@James You might consider this part of Teacher's question, but I want to make sure you address it. How, and on which slot, has Flicker shown overconfidence?

On Nauci, and again, I'll elaborate in a further post.

Are you scumreading me?

... why do you even have to ask?

And if you're so sure that

I'm

scum all of a sudden (you've been pretty null on me until now), why not vote me instead? Wouldn't teaming up with Oxy be more productive than trying to create a new wagon this far into the day? Or did you not notice that Nauci moved her vote to teacher?

I don't find teacher nearly as scummy as you and NK15. But that's a nice try, trying to make me look flip-floppy again. TOTALLY not contrived. And I'm sure your scum because your case is bull. again, more on that in a bit.

[James Brafin]

Flail-y much?
We'll take this one objection at a time.

Here are my suspects so far:
Flicker.
Here I am sheeping the case of Oxy against them.
MejiFan.
I don't like their obsession of Nauci; they seem to focused on them. This frequently happens to scum, there is a difference between town tunneling and scum "tunneling" and this looks like the latter.
James Brafin.
James is flip-flopping their votes and they give me a bad feeling.
VOTE: James Brafin

ASSUMPTION

It's the thor-unvote-thor that you're not liking, ya?

Yes, Brafin says

Vote: Thor665
Fairly confident in this.

then

And I'm going to unvote because really, there is no reason for my vote to be where it is right now.
UNVOTE:
Not comfortable enough to put it somewhere else though.

I'm reading Nauci as town-lean Elephant and Thor as scum-lean, and all else as null atm,

unvoting the top and only scumread without good explanation, what is the town motivation for this?
"Hey, this one is most sus but I will unvote them!" This is likely scum. Did you ever see a townie act like that?

Then Brafin notices the problem, probably, and tries to fix it one post after that:

Now totally confident this is scum.
VOTE: Thor

the progression does not make sense.
Next is this shit:

A) I didn't do it to be annoying; I did it when I quote lots of stuff to make it easier to read. I'm going to take Irrelephant's advice tho and start just leaving the post number and comments. But regardless, this is a massive misrep and Attack on Person. Not to mention we aren't DISCUSSING stratagem, so I have no idea where that came from.
B) There's also an Attack on Person on Nauci. DDS seems to be trying to make players seem inept and their opinion trivial simply on the grounds that "they are bad posters." While the complaints about her being sick are a tad bothersome, they don't warrant THAT.
C) Aren't YOU discussing stratagem in your post, in your paragraph about NOT discussing stratagem? Besides, we are far beyond that topic. Only YOU are still hung up over it; my reasoning is that Thor could make opinion sound like fact because of his IC role. It is NOT a strat discussion.
D) That was obviously a joke, not a scumslip. He's not "lied multiple times," he's making a humorous statement, and I think you know it. This is a crappy placeholder vote.

A refuses to acknowledge that DDS never said that it was scummy, just annoying; and annoying town is anti-town. A massive misrep is far from that.
B refuses to acknowledge that DDS said that it makes them badly readable and annoying, not necessarily scum. An AOP on these grounds- how is it AI?
C looks really like a misrep. DDS told them that they differ on them on the opinion that IC strat is AI/NAI. Additionally, if Brafin continues to use that as argument, why can't DDS tell them that it is in their opinion invalid?
D jumps on a clarified misunderstanding. Why?

Scumlean:
Thor

How did we get there from

totally confident

?

NARRATIVE

Any questions?

[Oxy]

@James Yeah, I have a question. Why is him scum reading and voting you for something, and then explaining that something, scummy?

@Not Known

This does not add up.

It is blatantly obvious that 1 is a lie

.It was untownie to leave it on a useless wagon, and because of that you unvoted Thor in one post and then,

in the very next post of the game- not just of yours, the game

you voted thor again. This makes me very sure that your

read progression is made up.

This is simply not true. There were a few posts in between.