Gunner Mafia [Endgame]

[Quick]

i dont think grey is scum

y not?

guy pushed heavily away from Maria lynch. I'm not sure he even talked about it b4 but I've been in kinda skim mode

there is a thin line between misguided overconfidence and scum agenda and i dont think it's the latter case for GreyIce

Can you do a case on Grey please? I can't read them worth shit...

[Nero Cain]

Well it's important to me so I can sort their reads. Like it literally makes no sense at this point.

maybe you should explain why it makes no sense to scum read you.

[CheekyTeeky]

Well it's important to me so I can sort their reads. Like it literally makes no sense at this point.

maybe you should explain why it makes no sense to scum read you.

What and save you from spewing obvious bs?

[Nero Cain]

Can you do a case on Grey please? I can't read them worth shit...

i like how you were scum reading him earlier but now its so hard 4 u.

[Quick]

Can you do a case on Grey please? I can't read them worth shit...

i like how you were scum reading him earlier but now its so hard 4 u.

ikik I am such a wolf.

[Centipede Syndrome]

i don't think Cheeky has been obvtown enough to not get a single scumread, even if i'm townreading her.

also i keep wanting to scumread Bins even though i just told myself if she's Maria's partner she's done too bad a job of hiding it.
~Chara

[Nero Cain]

ikik I am such a wolf.

glad we agree

[Centipede Syndrome]

Thor665
6. Ausuka
7. CheekyTeeky
11. GreyICE
12. Panopticon (Varsoon and Tn5421)
13. The Worst
14. Srceenplay
15. Spiffeh
16. Brigand Vvulf
17. Tchill13
20. Brian Skies

95% sure all scum are in here, thank you Elli. (removed Nero and Hopkirk)
~Chara

[Quick]

ikik I am such a wolf.

glad we agree

We should really do this more often... I think you have SR me in every single game we have played together...

[Nero Cain]

that's not true at all and you know it

[CheekyTeeky]

D: sorry for being lazy I'll be better when I'm not overwhelmed and overgamed.

[Quick]

that's not true at all and you know it

I do? I didn't know I knew that... Thanks for enlightening me? I guess?/??

[Nero Cain]

I mean, it wouldn't have really surprised me if I did start to question my town read on you in our last game once I policy voted you and you started attacking me but I don't think that really counts.

[Nero Cain]

that's not true at all and you know it

I do? I didn't know I knew that... Thanks for enlightening me? I guess?/??

bullahit, you knew exactly what happened in our last game. You're feigning ignorance and I don't think that comes from town.

[Quick]

that's not true at all and you know it

I do? I didn't know I knew that... Thanks for enlightening me? I guess?/??

bullahit, you knew exactly what happened in our last game. You're feigning ignorance and I don't think that comes from town.

Yas, you are talking about the large game where to SR/PL me from the very beginning of the game right?

[Nero Cain]

I am but I only voted you to PL you and then you started flailing around and pouting like my nephew when he doesn't get ice cream for dinner.

[Quick]

I am but I only voted you to PL you and then you started flailing around and pouting like my nephew when he doesn't get ice cream for dinner.

IDK your nephew so that means nothing to me...

OK...

*activate... disengage sequence in 3... 2... 1...*

[Panopticon]

I am but I only voted you to PL you and then you started flailing around and pouting like my nephew when he doesn't get ice cream for dinner.

IDK your nephew so that means nothing to me...

OK...

*activate... disengage sequence in 3... 2... 1...*

VOTE: Quick

[Thor665]

VOTE: Srceenplay

I'm for this now.

[Quick]

I am but I only voted you to PL you and then you started flailing around and pouting like my nephew when he doesn't get ice cream for dinner.

IDK your nephew so that means nothing to me...

OK...

*activate... disengage sequence in 3... 2... 1...*

VOTE: Quick

Top kek....

[Bins]

also i keep wanting to scumread Bins even though i just told myself if she's Maria's partner she's done too bad a job of hiding it.

also, just like, ISO maria


I'm not that bad at scum too : (

[Bins]

I could probably do screen, hm

[Brigand Vvulf]

so idk why im writing a town case for a mafia game on a fucking friday night - i realized half way through but at that point it's too late to stop. So here is a town case on grey

He has mastered the command of language. His posts contain the perfect vocabulary, and he writes them in a sharp, witty tone (albeit arrogant from time to time). He's also good at capturing exactly how an exchange goes, what positions people are in, and extracting useful information out of them. You will rarely find bullshit in his posts; what you will find is pure unfiltered content that defines his position in this town. Because of this his posts are precise and concise, which means they are easy to read, which means you are more likely to read his posts. Which gives off a towny impression when you're just reading his words alone without even needing to analyse them.

He has a way of laying out his thought processes. Now his read aren't something you might agree with, but the progression of his reads is usually laid out in a manner you can easily follow, and sync with. This means his posts are more likely to come from a town mindset than a scum one.

He speaks and deals in absolutes, which means more often than not he's putting his foot down on everything. he seems overly confident, even if his maria read is demonstratably wrong, but it isn't blind confidence, you can actually see the reasoning behind most of his propositions, you can also find that they are backed with evidence/analysis

he places less emphasis on meta, which means his reads came from interactions in this game alone. This makes HIM more readable in the end. None of the shit like "I'd do this as town, I'd do that as scum blah blah blah"

he comes off as unnecessarily abrasive, at times, and will often make whoever he's talking to seem like they forgot how to logic, but it's usually a done to prove a point, and he knows when to stop to prevent getting into dumb debates. This is something i tend to associate with town rather than scum

The last bit is interesting - he, uh, actually talks to people, and tries to motivate them even if it means slapping them down to the harse reality. something you will very RARELY, and almost never see from scum because there's no visible benefit for him

Spoiler: POSTS

//break

Also why me doesn't equal fry me or else nobody would say why me.

Of course it does. Always has, always will.

This "tell" has been around since we first started here. It was never that accurate to being with and is likely even less accurate now. Not really liking the strongarm.

Tell you what, if you're right... eh, I still won't give a crap. You're wrong.

//break

You know, tchill, your 3 pretty shoddy posts, followed by a temper tantrum over being wagoned because "townies are getting away with the same thing" without any sign of scumhunting?

Yeah, it's pretty fucking bad play. It's also pretty fucking scummy play.

You'll excuse me if your award winning argument of "I'm scummy and have no idea who is in the game, but I'll still flip town, you meanie!" doesn't win any points.

Do you plan to start playing at some point? Or just try and threaten us with a "townflip" and scumplain about how people aren't nice?

//break

@Grey - I'd actually love your take on the question I asked Toranaga above also about Srceenplay.

As they say, NAI. You pissed him off, he got pissed off. That's genuine. It's also not alignment indicative. That bit about you being Quick's partner was more than a touch scummy though. As is his epic vote sit on Quick (which is also not indicative of Quick's alignment - parking a vote on a buddy not being wagoned and then not pushing for their lynch is both good distancing and completely fucking useless)

If the mod PMed me and said "vig or don't vig" I'd shoot him, but there aren't many people I'd say no to a free vig on. If you want go go corral a wagon I'm game, but the one I'm on seems pretty good to me.

//break

Oh and I absolutely promise to hammer Quick if he's at L-1, regardless of anything. It's pro-town.

speaking in absolution, no wiggle room, needlessly scummy, draws attention, i dont see how that could come from scum

//break

chara has to give the illusion of centipede seeming town before they drop their guilty on town and have to deal with the aftermath tomorrow.
(;

Eh, sorry, centipede is like a 90-95% town read. Think about it, you have a hydra chat. Your buddy, an extremely experienced player who you respect a lot drops a cool read, but he's only half explained it and has to run. You're convinced you can't explain it as well as he can, it's too cool not to mention, but if you post it you'll wreck their awesome reveal.

I understand WHY he's doing this, I just don't think it's the right move.

//break

it looks like screenplay is not gaining any traction so

VOTE: nero

a couple of his recent posts rubbed me the wrong way

Look, you're town, so I'm going to let you in on the sad thing about these large games. It takes 11 to lynch. There's probably 5 scum, leaving 16 townies. That means if six townies decide to play The Lone Ranger and go off on their own, we would be unable to lynch anyone the scum didn't want us to lynch. In point of fact,

even if the person you are voting is scum

this is true - with 5 scum, there's enough we could split our vote between scumbags and still not get anywhere.

In short, Lone Ranger votes like these rarely accomplish something, even if they happen to land on scum. So try to sell us, or try to work with us. Nero's posts legit aren't great, but something like this isn't really going to sell us. It's a weak vote, that puts no pressure on Nero (because he needs 10 more to get lynched) and doesn't really even have bullet points for him to address (and potentially make himself look scummy). It's effectively a non-post due to game size.

If this was a micro things like this can work, because there's so few people that just putting a vote out there is important, but in a game like this you aren't even 10% of a lynch wagon. So please, lets work together.

//break

Like brother, if you really think this, where's your vote? It's not like it's doing anything, you haven't had a vote down since the Bush administration.

But if you plop your vote on Brigand Vvulf, then people will see it in the vote count. They might even try to figure out why. While right now most of the town is skipping half of everything because this town generates more pages than is reasonable. A conversation like this? This could get passed over. But your vote in the count is forever.

And man, no one is gonna buy a Brigand Vvulf vote. That's a damn ugly one to commit to having immortalized in vote count, ain't it?

//break

Can you explain why?

i feel gross about gi just completely ignoring my scumread on him, hes spent a lot of time not really trying to accomplish something specific and his pushes in particular just feel like they dont actually have anything behind them in a way that i would expect from town him.

with bins, i kind of felt like the buddying on me was undeserved at the time, especially since im apparently having a scummy game according to everyone and their grandma :')

Oh okay, here. You're town, you don't really care what I have to say, you'll either come around or you won't, so I'm not going to waste my energy.

Other than that, you're complaining that I'm not engaged with the game. Well, yeah. I've repeatedly complained it's such a fucking spam fest that it is hard for me to read. My solution has been to simply abandon the idea of reading the worst offender (singular) and ignore conversations with him as well. Since then, I've had some decent reads, and I'm more than a little annoyed that you are simply dismissing the Nero thing out of hand. That being said, I don't think you give a flying fuck whether or not you're playing well, and since you're town I don't feel like getting into a fight with you.

So there we go, first and last address of it. Take the olive branch or don't, because trust me in the grand scheme of things you being wrong is no skin off my nose.

//break

Literally more work for you to type that paragraph out than to say "I'm voting Nero Cain" just so you can belittle me to make your point.

Point made.

The point wasn't really that I'm voting Nero Cain. It's that this 11th hour effort doesn't contain much... effort. The problem with reading you is that you haven't done anything resembling scumhunting, and while a lot of people are behind thanks to the volume of posting, it feels like you're barely trying. That leaves me trying to read you off tone and a lack of effort, and tone reads are unreliable at best.

Like dude, this progression under pressure is classic:

Regardless of Tor's alignment...he knows. I'm just willfully antagonizing him on his bad reads. Not all that interested in the tchill or Screenplay scum reads he's pushing either.

Also why me doesn't equal fry me or else nobody would say why me.

Of course it does. Always has, always will.

This "tell" has been around since we first started here. It was never that accurate to being with and is likely even less accurate now. Not really liking the strongarm.

I sorta feel like Tchill would try to be more visible as scum as opposed to lurking 30 pages. Sure, there's the possibility that he was busy IRL and rolled a scum pm but I don't feel like the case on him is strong.

vote:tchill

All this and I still can't decide whether or not Nero Cain is just bussing, because you've set yourself up to be lynched or vigged so hard I don't think if you were scum scum would be bothering to try and preserve your slot.

So yeah, uh, Nero Cain is classic scum and I'd STILL need more reason not to vote you (as I said to BVV earlier, ego sticking on one scumread day 1 in a large is counterproductive to getting scum lynched)

//break

Like really, Elli, I'll give you respect as a flimflam artist, but man that list is just your actual reads.

never said it wasn't

You're hilarious.

But sorry, this Maria wagon is not my jam.

//break

The Panopticon wagon is so obviously scumdriven it hurts me.

So I'm left between picking on Tchill or Maria. I don't even feel this is very hard.

Vote: Tchill

Not too opposed to MariaR, wouldn't vote Panopticon if you paid me after those fucking votes.

//break

The Panopticon wagon is so obviously scumdriven it hurts me.

Ignoring the wagon, what do you think about Panopticon?

He's loud, angry, and as sick of this day as I am. Despite that, the hydra heads are trading off duties trying to stay involved in this cesspool.

Slight Scumlean
Srceen - My gut says otherwise, but I feel like this post is unnecessarily nitpicky (and I feel like that's more of something scum might do). I'm also not getting good vibes from his hardtunnel on the Quick slot. So it's probably more appropriate to put him here even though

I'm also not a fan of his immediate reaction to Thor.

Not really sure what I could be engaging or interacting with him on, so...?

You're really not sure?

THEN WHY ARE YOU VOTING HIM

Because I think he's scum.

sigh

Why do you think he's scum? Surely there is a reason or two, and that is

something you could ask him about

.

AKA: What you could be engaging or interacting with him about.

So why do you seem to think you have

nothing

to engage or interact with him about?

Like fuck, he wants to nutpunch people for this dumbshittery as bad as I do, but he's trying. No way in fuck I'm lynching that.

//break

Sure. That's well within the realm of possibility. It's why I said to Brigand earlier that we can't go off on our own too much, because even if every townie voted scum we still couldn't get a lynch through in a game this size.

But of the two I see Tchill as very possible and more likely to be scum. And I hate Elli's "tee hee I'm too lazy to make a case". I mean what do we do if she's town tomorrow, lynch Elli? Shrug and ignore him? I hate that shit.

Tchill successfully makes the case on himself quite nicely, if nothing else:

tchill is on every major wagon at its peak including centipede. thats worth noting for later.

//break

GreyIce is still a good vig target.

Your 'read' is a statement.

Yes Hopkirk, this is a brand new thing, and I've never interacted with you before. Where you whined that I wasn't sufficiently nice to play the game, and that therefore I was scum. And should replace out. And here's the thing, all your thoughts have been surface level and garbo, all your votes have been surface level and garbo, and I really think you're a better player than what you're playing. Your votes are shit:

VOTE: Centipede

For the super fake tone of 496/500.

I'm caught up.

Nero is clear and so is hopkirk.

What about Beeboy?

VOTE: Pan

This is some serious weaksauce. And I don't mind tossing around a vote willy-nilly, or not making a case every time, if it's done with a clear town motivation, but lord god.

I feel at least a bit good about: Toranaga, MariaR, Beeboy, Ausuka, Cheeky, Quick, Brian, Nero, Brigand (a bit), Screen (a bit)

Zone of people I need to interact with: The Worst, Tchill, Panoptican UNVOTE: panoptican, Bins, Spiffeh

Hive of potential scum and villany: Thor665, Gorkington, GreyIce, Centipede

Man Hopkirk, you feel good about Beeboy, MariaR, and Nero? Your hive of scum and villainy is Thor, Gork, me and Centipede?

Again, reads can change and evolve, but this isn't so much evolution as it is just "whatever works at the moment".

OK, so yesterday I was thinking Ausuka, cheeky, Hop, Nero, and beeboy were all in a hood.

Gork has a good point on counterwagons.
UNVOTE: Pan

Wasn't Gork part of the "hive of Scum and villainy?" Whatever, he had a good point.

I'm super fucking sad this town won't lynch your sorry ass day 1, Hopkirk.

[the worst]

Bringand your case hasn't helped me townread grey one bit but I think I love him now

[Mulch]

Vc tmrw

Possibly have to transituon to manual

Dead tired but no v/la from tmrw on yay