Gunner Mafia [Endgame]

[Bins]

I don't trust you either


: )

[Gorkington]

can you be specific on the reasoning as to why you think his stances and opening are more likely town than not?
im more trying to understand why youre feeling like we shouldnt be lynching him in case im offbase for some reason before i start up a wagon and drive it over him?

[Brigand Vvulf]

I tone read GreyICE as town, (I provided a case earlier) which basically boils down to the question: "has be been operating on good faith?" and I think he is.

[Spiffeh]

Can we stop doing this thing where people apparently somewhat suspect me without explaining why or trying to engage me about it because I don’t feel like dealing with suddenly getting wagoned later on when it’s likely that most people that feel I’m town will be dead

[Gorkington]

if the people pushing for a srceen lynch could make a case with points as to why hes scum other than "lol he is" then that would probably help too.
if someone's done that already then apologies (but im pretty sure nobody has)

p-edit: i think side-by-siding a greyTowngame vs a greyScumgame with here would make the tone argument irrelevant.

[Brigand Vvulf]

You sure love meta dont you.

[Brigand Vvulf]

Is “know 10 scum/town games for every player” the requirement to play on this site?

[Thor665]

if the people pushing for a srceen lynch could make a case with points as to why hes scum other than "lol he is" then that would probably help too.
if someone's done that already then apologies (but im pretty sure nobody has)

What's the case v Screenplay, though?

-obserVed

The snarky answer is 'go look at his ISO' (which actually I think is a pretty valid answer).
But for my end I would say that he is playing in an obstructionist way while claiming he is doing the opposite yet refusing to back up said claims.
He's basically blustering while doing nothing.
Compare/contrast with Grey - who blusters while actively doing the things he's claiming he's doing.

Also, if you have a bugaboo about Hopkirk (well, frankly I'd say double check his play around MariaR because I'm doubting the Hopkirk scum read now) but if you still do, I would note that his uneven application of a tell on me vs. Srceenplay while refusing to even check out Srceenplay's actions should be a decent enough association tell to at least intrigue you into researching the slot more.

2nd verse, same as the 1st.

[Thor665]

I'll agree that I think I'm the only one presenting a case, but still...

[Gorkington]

it gives good context for whether the things people are doing make sense and in some cases makes it really obvious when someone is scum.

i really think townGrey spends more time shaking specific people by the shoulders to tell them how dumb they are for townreading hopkirk and/or not pushing hopkirk.
the amount of time hes just been soapboxing him being scum without actually accomplishing much in doing so doesnt really strike me as genuine and i also think his reads are generally less static as town.
his general stancing on maria/centipede stuff has been incredibly safe and he more or less tried to play outside of that entire situation.

this isnt meant to be a fully fledged case btw.
this is just where my head is currently at on him.

p-edit: heh.
okay, hopefully i have enough time during lunch to do the things i want to do.

[Bins]

Can we stop doing this thing where people apparently somewhat suspect me without explaining why or trying to engage me about it because I don’t feel like dealing with suddenly getting wagoned later on when it’s likely that most people that feel I’m town will be dead

says you mr. “bins losing my trust”



also sure gork but after my exam tmmr

[Brigand Vvulf]

it gives good context for whether the things people are doing make sense and in some cases makes it really obvious when someone is scum.

i really think townGrey spends more time shaking specific people by the shoulders to tell them how dumb they are for townreading hopkirk and/or not pushing hopkirk.
the amount of time hes just been soapboxing him being scum without actually accomplishing much in doing so doesnt really strike me as genuine and i also think his reads are generally less static as town.
his general stancing on maria/centipede stuff has been incredibly safe and he more or less tried to play outside of that entire situation.

this isnt meant to be a fully fledged case btw.
this is just where my head is currently at on him.

fair, but there's also tailoring your meta to fit a specific narrative, etc... but that's a can of worms I'd rather not open right now

also your grey reads is intriguing enough I'll probably spend a miserable afternoon looking into it

[Gorkington]

but there's also tailoring your meta to fit a specific narrative

i think theres a decent chance that grey is doing exactly this with the way hes pushing hopkirk.
but i'll dig more into that with an isodive.

[Centipede Syndrome]

You sure love meta dont you.

i don't have meta on Grey either, but even i can see that if his tone is similar as both alignments, tonereading him in a general sense isn't going to get someone very far, which was Gork's point.

also i'm here, hello. i'm ISOing chill now.
~Chara

[Centipede Syndrome]

1278 and posts preceding it, thoughts? while chill is objectively scummy, the way Grey keeps engaging him in taunts and re-justifying why chill is objectively obvious scum makes me pretty happy with where my vote is so far. especially for a player like Grey, who was lecturing Elli and i on proper townplay and being charismatic to get players to follow our reads, which probably doesn't include seeking out onesided conversations with the scum we're trying to lynch.
~Chara

[Gorkington]

i definitely feel like it follows a trend of showy "this person is scum why can no one else see it" posts that arent doing the kind of work i would expect from a townGrey who wants to take control of the game to get the people he thinks are scum lynched.

i also think hes kind of misrepping tchill there, as just saying "why are people voting me?" really isnt the same as "why are people voting me and not other people who are doing the same thing as me?"

on a less fun note, im realizing that grey had a little more trajectory this game than i remembered so that point is kind of out the window.

[Centipede Syndrome]

questionableish things:
him voting maria after saying that he thinks shes NAI just because cheeky is telling people to.
his scumgame isnt really that bad. he was pretty damn engaged/active, made it to endgame and did some pretty damn ballsy things.

i actually like both of these as points for town chill.

most of my points for why are different than yours but overall i agree with him looking like town. and this is while trying not to take into account the Grey scumread.

[Gorkington]

ooooo heres a fun bit:

I recommend stopping this, because I have some respect for both Elli's reads and Elli's theater

You're hilarious.

But sorry, this Maria wagon is not my jam.

The Panopticon wagon is so obviously scumdriven it hurts me.

So I'm left between picking on Tchill or Maria. I don't even feel this is very hard.

Vote: Tchill

Not too opposed to MariaR, wouldn't vote Panopticon if you paid me after those fucking votes.

MariaR(7) ~ Centipede Syndrome(140), Gorkington(135), CheekyTeeky(93), Creature(148), Panopticon(93), Tchill13(70), Brian Skies(79)

these are the maria votes.
tchill is the only stated scumread that i can see that grey is pushing at around that time and hes not even committed to it.
he jumps around onto like 3-4 people at around this time.

grey has respect for elli's reads but has no inclination to actually follow through when he reveals his biggest scumread? when hes not really outwardly scumreading the wagon?
and theres no specific diving into maria's ISO to indicate why at any point and he even goes so far as to say that hes unopposed to voting her later (but also doesnt).

this is the posting from maria in between his "nope not okay with this" stance on mariawagon vs his "i am unopposed but hey look heres a tchill vote":

If you're going to listen to Eli do it tomorrow I'm too important to die yet can't believe I have to stop lurking for this
The gunner can shoot me all you like but 1 day is ,100% needed

Judging on other games and anti claim any anti claim should be shot based otherwise the game isn't fum. I can claim if we want to risk it but hey if something happens just strong me up

I was lurking on purpose
Dying right now for me is really bad rn but if I have to waste mafia resources to d it I will

Town as of rn but chara needs to post more
I don't think scum them tries to ml me unless there scared of me reading chara but I don't think Eli respects me enough to do that.
Aka town
Pedit fair

i dont really see what in here would change his mind from maria which wouldnt have changed from other things that maria had done previously.

[Centipede Syndrome]

1533 is the third instance of Grey doing the "ok. listen, you're town. and here's why you're doing it wrong."
Gork, you have town meta on Grey, right? does he do this a lot in general?
~Chara

pedit: yes, there it is. Grey had us as pretty confident town and even took the time to tell me to fix my approach so i'll be listened to, but he never followed through.

[Gorkington]

does he do this a lot in general?

would need to dive games with that in mind to give you a definitive answer, but i think grey is the sort of player who would call out people doing things he disagrees with that he thinks are town, as town.

[Gorkington]

my time's up, sorry thor.
will see if i have time to look at srceen tonight before my class.

[Centipede Syndrome]

Spiffeh
Tchill13

Thor665
CheekyTeeky
Brigand Vvulf

The Worst
Srceenplay
Brian Skies

Ausuka
GreyICE

partially-finished sorting of everyone in the PoE. please like, comment, and subscribe. (i want feedback) keep in mind the highest of the list isn't "confident townread", but rather the lowest is the player i'd be happiest lynching first.

[Gorkington]

is elli planning to check in at all before end of day?

[Centipede Syndrome]

is elli planning to check in at all before end of day?

i wish i could say yes. :<

[Spiffeh]

VOTE: GreyICE