Open 721: Pick Your Poison (Game Over)

[ofrhz]

Actually I’m not sure why you’re scumreading the worst

[skitter30]

He is hard tunneling me, and I highly doubt this kind of tunnel is coming from scum. It’s incredibly similar to the Scioness tunnel where he thought literally everything Scioness wrote reeked scum, even though no one else saw it. I think the fact that he has maintained this read even though not that many people agree reinforces my read on him.

I think his vote on UD was townish in that he was trying to form wagons.

He has decided to sheep Math, but I don’t think this is buddying. Oxy only sheeps Math for reads he’s unsure about. But like in the case of TW, Math is townreading TW now I think, but Oxy is still scumreading TW.

His scumread on you feels more ... forced I guess is a good word. Like he's overstating the significance of things that I don't find to be that AI and using that to scumread you almost.

I think voting a townread as 'a nod to the fact that a couple of my best town reads think you're scum' is kinda gross.

I misread the draynth thing I think, so never mind there.

[Oxy]

His scumread on you feels more ... forced I guess is a good word. Like he's overstating the significance of things that I don't find to be that AI and using that to scumread you almost.

From your pov, this should obv!town me LOL

[skitter30]

Fight me, skitter.

My reads are super clear,
And I'm sheeping solid town reads.

It's a pro town mood, and I can be melodramatic about it if I want to.

Sheeping townreads onto other townreads is pretty bad.

Like it's bizarre to townread ud but vote there anyways cuz math is. If you're like townreading ud, why don't you like try to talk to your other townread about why you think he's wrong, instead of, you know, following him there?

[Oxy]

Lists are in no particular order

Town
AP
Ruru
Mathdino


Town Lean
Pinturicchio

These are the town reads that I'm sheeping. I can tell them my view point on a slot, and defer to the crowd sourced logic at the same time

[Mathdino]

okay fine
VOTE: Draynth
we have to lynch SOMEONE

i have way too many goddamn townreads honestly

[Oxy]

dino post read list

[AP]

okay fine
VOTE: Draynth
we have to lynch SOMEONE

i have way too many goddamn townreads honestly

We do, but it's not gonna be this one.

[skitter30]

Like it's bizarre to townread ud but vote there anyways cuz math is.

Unless you think math is spectacularly better at reading ud, I don't get why you just drop your read there to sheep math.

Like it makes me feel like your reads aren't actually real since it apparently doesn't take a lot to get you to vote a townread.

[Oxy]

You're still posting, but you're not reading my posts. Which is cool and all, but I'm not engaging with it anymore.

[Mathdino]

ruru
pintu
Sunshine
Scioness
Oxy
AP
Mohab
TW
skitter30
ofrhz
UglyDuck
Draynth

i'm not explaining these all because my reads are not consistent with the current gamestate

it doesn't add up

[Oxy]

looks like a pretty okay read list to me

draynth lynch is a crutch. I think I'm out for a bit

my suggestion:

VOTE: The Worst

[skitter30]

You're still posting, but you're not reading my posts. Which is cool and all, but I'm not engaging with it anymore.

OK, I don't get what you're trying to say then and as best as I can tell you voted a townread cuz another townread told you to.

I want to talk to ruru but I'm probably voting you tbh.

[Oxy]

Don't worry skitter, 3rd time's the charm for sorting me I guess =/

[ofrhz]

okay fine
VOTE: Draynth
we have to lynch SOMEONE

i have way too many goddamn townreads honestly

We do, but it's not gonna be this one.

Why not

[Scioness Sajj]

o rite

UNVOTE: oxy

[Scioness Sajj]

What the actual fuck ruru

AP's reads are terrible and slightly funny, pretend it's not there

Well, he put a very lynchable player in the vig shots and the less lynchable players in the "sure" category

I want to know if he's really sure

What the actual fuck ruru

AP's reads are terrible and slightly funny, pretend it's not there

Well, he put a very lynchable player in the vig shots and the less lynchable players in the "sure" category

I want to know if he's really sure

In a lot of detail, explain to me why you came to the conclusion that self voting was smart

Apologies if I'm actually gamethrowing? But

1. Something about AP's categories pings me, and his explanation involves me surely being scum
2. I suspect he does not actually want to lynch me or TW
3. I look to test my hypothesis

i know you know it already but self-voting is never pro-town.
also what's your test's result?

OK.. I'll leave now and come back tomorrow. If nobody wants to listen then I'll yield and go back to role-playing and sheeping Mathdino.

If you're sheeping Dino, why are you voting for one of his locktowns? Or why are you even scumreading one of his locktowns?

I'm going to sheep Dino for ease of mind, not because I think his reads are any better than mine.

There can only be one town leader, and I only offer my hand once. (How do you go from Austin Powers to Gladiator??)

And ftr, I don't think ruru voting herself makes her likely to be town. In fact, she's just admitted she was playing chicken with me to see if I will go all the way with my push. Think about it: Scum wanting to appear daring and not afraid of getting lynched.. or Ton who decided it was a good idea to get mislynched on D1 and possibly get another Townie miclynched on D2? Because, having never played with me before she can never be sure of my alignment from the playstyle or reads I have provided. Think, and let me know what you decide.

this is good read, most likely wrong, but is still a good read ap's pov considering. town leaning more for independency.

Well, sometimes I like to push peope’s buttons, see how they react.

Total scumslip, btw.

explain the scumslip?
this post pings me and I forgot why I was townleaning you ealier

...just shoot mohab it's not that hard

although shooting ofrhz might make more sense

god why did so many people ask to be lynched lol
HURT: ofrhz
this is more likely to hit scum and more likely to reduce paranoia/gamesolve even if town

Or put Ugly on L-1, wait for the claim and if he claims VT he gets shot? I know a game where this was optimal

nice pr outing strategy

[Scioness Sajj]

never gonna read all that, fuck that

and tomorrow I can't use a computer/laptop so it's impossible

yeah fuck that just lynch me

Could you help us sort you instead of repeating that you won't read and that you don't have time? Like, anything

I am town I guess. If you vote me up to l-1, I'll selfhammer and prove it if you want.

nothing against you and alignments aside but

if you don't feel like playing the game it would probably benefit everybody the most if you replaced out. i'm not saying that i want you to replace out that's just something to consider when you are back from your v/la I guess.

OK after completely catching up, here is my generalized reads list so that I do not take up 2 pages of space. If you have a question, or want more input on a specific read, just ask. If I posted all my notes it would of taken up until like page 25

Towny Side of Stuff

Oxy

- TownXTown to the tenth power. No avenues being produced through any of their reads to be looked at as possible set ups. Only player so far to me where like actually all of their content seems genuine.

Math

- driving the game. engaging with all players, yadda yadda. I will do a seperate post about both TW and Math, but strong TRs on both for now.

theworst

- driving the game. engaging with all players, yadda yadda. I will do a seperate post about both TW and Math, but strong TRs on both for now.

sunshine

- posting content, asking questions, obviously reading far into the game. Town traits, I don't see a reason to look here today.

Draynth

- Not a lot to go off of, but reads seem OK. I mean I disagree with his top two pushes, but I think for anyone to be pushing Math/TW right now I would of been granting some TP to because there has to be like a 0% chance they get lynched today.

Middle People

Skitter

- Lots of content once they started and they obviously are reading along intently and putting effort into pulling quotes and and explanations and etc. Some of the quotes though, have explanations that seems a little too specific to be something to actually care about on D1. Most recent example being calling Math skum because of a similarity to play style in MkUltra. Whatever, if I had to choose outside of null, def would pick Town, but null it is.

Scioness

- Trying to make some cases on some people for some kind of NAI reasons (IMO). However, as I am heavily TR on the worst right now, I feel like skum would be the first to jump off the L2 TW wagon early Day 1 for the credit (assuming I am right about Town!TW). Summary: Cases being made are skummy, actions seem more on the towny side of things.

Pin

- So I am 4 games on this forum and this is the third with Pin. I have thought he was skum in every game I have played with him, and so far have yet to be correct. I am putting him under Null because I am getting skummy vibes, but obv that has not worked out for me in the past. The thing is that I am getting skummy vibes because he is playing differently than he has in the other games I have played with him. Normally way more involved, and pushing the game along. That could be because Math/TW are kind of driving the bus here, or not, so yeah.. for now Null.

Mohab500

- No fucking idea. So weird. If anything I guess Town? but it takes me as much time to read one of their posts as it does to read a page of any other content so IDK.

AP

- Same thing as Mohab, kind of, on a lesser level. They are at least contributing in the game quite a bit, it is just all the other relaxed posts throw me off.

Skummy

Ruru

- Perfect amount of content for skum combined with the the content of that content. A little bit of the Game Set Up talk, a little bit of the rando joke around side content, some vote throws, and (what stood out to me) is just like lots of random questions. Not random I suppose, but questions that have been answered based on context of game or like ambiguous questions about general game play. They said this is their second game ever, so there could be that - but just a note from my POV, bc this site has so many ALTs, I disregard every player's "amount of games played posts".

ofrhz

- So this is kind of my main spot at this point. Starting with the Vig shot concept from a while back "why wouldn't Vig shoot N1". Regardless of the correct play, I feel like looking like it from that perspective is worried skum mindset where as Town Mindset would be "Oh god what if I guessed wrong".


So yeah. I don't see myself getting a Ruru train going rn based on everyone's posted standing, so... VOTE: ofrhz

is super wobbly.
could you elaborate on the underline reads? and write those posts abot tw and md.

It felt weird from her cuz I would have expected her to comment on wagon-speed or how it was the L-2 vote or something game-relevant. It was just a greeting and an empty vote and she's more .... game-aware I guess in my experience. It felt kinda like 'hi I'm here and I'm participating, don't pay too much attention to me!' from her since she was just voting where everyone else did without like any game-relevant commentary.

There's no one in this playerlist that I've played with before that I wouldn't have found that post to be weird from. I wouldn't find it to be weird from someone who I know to be wagon-happy/easy-with-their-vote/lolvoters. (I'm not describing the playstyle well. Specific examples of people I've played with who I think would enter the game like that include dunkerdoodles and ausuka, and sometimes not-mafia.)

idk who are you talking about but that's not me, lol. do you remember my rvs from last game?

Hello!

VOTE: eth0s

Has a recent Last visited date and hasn't posted yet.

Is your vote serious?
VOTE: ruru

You had content in your entrance, which is my point. There you found someone's entrance interesting enough to vote them for it and to pressure them to talk about it.

Here you just blindly became the L-2 vote on a wagon without talking about it at all.

I feel like you have explained my point for yourself here. in 1859 ruru posted something interesting, here there was nothing really interesting so I have added onto.

also what do i do with ap? i don't even know what he is roleplaying.

this is serious question.

watch Austin Powers

are you telling me if I don't watch Austin Powers I won't be able to sort him?

I kinda townread this.

I hope this isn't only reason for your current townlean on me

(if somebody else is townleaning me mostly for this post please raise your hand)

[Mathdino]

i'm pretty sure NSG is on the replacement list right now so mohab replacing out would be hilariously pro-town

[Scioness Sajj]

VOTE: oxy

content or tunnel

Any update on this?

i think oxy misunderstood me. i asked for content (and threathened to tunnel him) but got tunnel instead

more below

Thanks, Math. You guys are having this discussion too early. I'm working my way through, and you'll have more to work with by the end of the night. I won't sleep until I've caught up, responded to whatever, and added to the game.

Like he was even a PR last game and still LAMISTed like every other post

FTR, this was on purpose because past!Oxy wanted to be active and didn't want to obv!town so much that he would get nk'd. Past!Oxy was an idiot.

are you telling us you were lamist on purpose to get some scumleans out of people?

You tried pulling something like this in MKUltra when I scumread you there too.

Like you're agreeing with me and saying you get where I'm coming but at the same time downplaying what I'm saying. Also you're trying to say that town!math would do the exact same thing here.

It's weird to tell me that you agree with me but that you don't think the point I'm making is worth responding to.

This gave me flashbacks. This feels a lot like 1859. Skitter comes into a game with a suspect, and that suspicion just kind of taints that person for them for the entire game.

I disagree, it took skitter some time to get into a tunnel on you.

VOTE: oxy

content or tunnel

By end of night - I'm concentrating elsewhere atm

alright, I need more in depth about obv!town math.
and anything on ofrhz and mohab

Ofrhz is a scum read for me at the moment.
Last game he was asking everyone, including his town reads, pointed questions that implied that Ofrhz had been reading them critically.

Here I see a bunch of fluff while content goes by that I think he would have jumped on last game.

Mohab seems like the type of person who would say, "I want to be lynched. I dare you to do it." as scum.

But I could sheep math on this read if we don't get more content.

nice dodge on the md question.
also updates on mohab? would you still sheep md?

Draynth - Not a lot to go off of, but reads seem OK. I mean I disagree with his top two pushes, but I think for anyone to be pushing Math/TW right now I would of been granting some TP to because there has to be like a 0% chance they get lynched today.


Middle People

Skitter - Lots of content once they started and they obviously are reading along intently and putting effort into pulling quotes and and explanations and etc. Some of the quotes though, have explanations that seems a little too specific to be something to actually care about on D1. Most recent example being calling Math skum because of a similarity to play style in MkUltra. Whatever, if I had to choose outside of null, def would pick Town, but null it is.

Scioness - Trying to make some cases on some people for some kind of NAI reasons (IMO). However, as I am heavily TR on the worst right now, I feel like skum would be the first to jump off the L2 TW wagon early Day 1 for the credit (assuming I am right about Town!TW). Summary: Cases being made are skummy, actions seem more on the towny side of things.

I'm calling this slot town based on this quote alone. Fight me.

I want to. Explain.

OK after completely catching up, here is my generalized reads list so that I do not take up 2 pages of space. If you have a question, or want more input on a specific read, just ask. If I posted all my notes it would of taken up until like page 25

I'm calling this slot scum based on this quote alone. Fight me.

Touche, but like those three reads are quite good. They have "nuance" as the kids these days say.

For example: reading scioness scum by her cases and town by her actions is kind of a perfect read for 1859 sajj

do you think it is also perfect read for me here? why?

I was explaining to UD the bussing theory

But yeah I kinda get that tbh

lmao whoops vote me

I'll even self hammer

THIS ALSO DOES NOT COME FROM TOWN

I agree with this. I remember how ofrhz reacted to his wagon in 1859 and how it played out and this doesn't line up.

[the worst]

i'm pretty sure NSG is on the replacement list right now so mohab replacing out would be hilariously pro-town

I just saw this but fuck yessss

Just notice I'll probably leave this game alone for a bit to let ppl weigh in. I hold some opinions in higher stead than others atm and need them around.

Also need a breather for self confbias check

[Scioness Sajj]

Dino - I'd like to talk to you about Oxy but that's probably for tomorrow unless you have a good read of him right now because I'm sort of fancing on him.

[Oxy]

Answers for Sajj

Spoiler:

are you telling us you were lamist on purpose to get some scumleans out of people?

yes - in 1859.

nice dodge on the md question.

There is a whole post on my md read. It just wasn't attached to that quote.

also updates on mohab? would you still sheep md?

Part of me thinks it's probably town because it's just so silly
but part of me tin foil hats, looks at ofrhz scum reading mohab, and sees pissed off scum partner
Sort mohab later, or by vig.
Yeah, I could see myself sheeping md on this slot if he felt strongly one way or the other.

I want to. Explain.

Yeah, I have already decided not to 1v1 my other town reads on this, so I'm not going to fight you either. I don't remember a scummy post from him, though.

do you think it is also perfect read for me here? why?

Not so much, but I remember thinking it was a reasonable read. Then again, I have a history of thinking your train of thought doesn't make sense ;P

[Scioness Sajj]

Almost all the reads seemed super generic / possibly faked

This makes sense.

This same reasoning is making me doubt my townread of Scioness. I don’t really see an issue with her rvs vote, but her reads were kinda vague even if I agreed with most of them.

could i get your thought process behind this? generic/faked =/= vague

ofrhz - thoughts on oxy?

I'm not sure at time of writing this, so lemme type out loud:
- Early game, Oxy announced a couple of townreads like he did in 1859 (btw, Oxy was really town in 1859).
- Some mild sucking up to Mathdino, even though he's not quite townreading Math just yet. But tbh lots of people are doing this (sucking up), so I haven't decided if this point means anything yet.
- 280 [Math explained why he didn't want to push a Scioness wagon yet]: Seems to be a turning point for Oxy where he started townreading Mathdino. I agree with Oxy in that 280 is pro-town.
(...except last time I checked this thread, Mathdino was literally pushing Scioness lmao)
- 339: Oxy is no longer townreading Sunshine? hmmm this kinda contradicts 84.
- 376: I'm kinda confused by why he thinks I have a different mindset this game. I have more experience going into this game (ok, 1 game vs 0 but still), and this game, no one posted anything blatantly sketchy in the first page of the game for me to tunnel on. However, I think multiple people have echoed similar sentiments about not being sure how to read me at this point though (and my recent wallposts probably didn't help with that oops), so I think he was prudent to wait for more content.
- 378: Not really related to oxy, but multiple people have now said skitter cannot fake this entrance. ...really? skitter can't post 56 as scum?
- 388 [Oxy townreading Mathdino for holding back]: I think multiple people have brought up why this logic for doesn't make sense. I'd like to see Oxy follow up with this before passing judgment.
- I see Oxy has toned down the LAMIST the game. town++ lmao

I guess I'm tentatively townreading Oxy rn

not really feeling this
your point about 280 and 388 contradict themsleves unless you were just pointing it out (but why would you do that?)

- I see Oxy has toned down the LAMIST the game. town++ lmao

Why do you find this town-indicative for him?

Trying to not do things that would get him hard-tunneled for the wrong reasons is pro town. His playstyle has definitely changed, and it

could

be scum looking to not stick out as much, but this change is for the better

this has been covered but it also reads to me: i would eventually scumread oxy for this but he is easier to play with now so I won't.

I have her [ruru] as a strong townread...

Why is this?

Spoiler:

Thoughts boiled down:
- She was a bit stiff in her last scumgame. She's done like a 180 this game on that front with regards to how she reacted in RVS and making jokes, etc. This is the major reason why I'm townreading her.
- She was really afraid to engage people as scum. In the scum pt for 1859, ruru was also stressing out over the fact that Mathdino replaced into the game, so I think skitter has a point about how scum!ruru would not vote Mathdino.
- Not really scumhunting, wanting to wagon lurkers. In her scumgame, she didn't really vote anyone who wasn't a lurker D1 until the last possible minute (in particular, she was voting lurkers over her other scumreads for most of D1). Her vote on Draynth was pretty good and not something scum ruru did in our previous game

Like this was her RVS vote last game. Scum trying to look like town trying to find scum.

VOTE: eth0s

Has a recent Last visited date and hasn't posted yet.

I was gonna find more examples of her stiffness, but I kinda got lazy.

those are not bad reasons for townreading ruru but it seems lazy.

Yeah I think you guys have a point, but Oxy toned down his LAMIST in D2 of 1859. So I don't tthink scum!Oxy is more likely than town!Oxy to tone down LAMIST. I was more thinking from the angle of him not being LAMIST-y helps people form better reads, which is pro-town given how much town was dragged down by that in 1859.

why not?
also what do you think about the lamist stuff since you know it was designed to see him as scummy?

Draynth

- Not a lot to go off of, but reads seem OK. I mean I disagree with his top two pushes, but I think for anyone to be pushing Math/TW right now I would of been granting some TP to because there has to be like a 0% chance they get lynched today.

Er... your two scumreads are in his townreads. And also while you have some overlapping reads with Draynth, your reasons for those reads are different (e.g. Draynth's read on skitter was null bc he literally just skipped skitter's posts, whereas you have a nullread on skitter for a very different reason). What there anything else about his reads that pinged you as town?

Pin

- So I am 4 games on this forum and this is the third with Pin. I have thought he was skum in every game I have played with him, and so far have yet to be correct. I am

putting him under Null because I am getting skummy vibes, but obv that has not worked out for me in the past

. The thing is that

I am getting skummy vibes because he is playing differently

than he has in the other games I have played with him. Normally way more involved, and pushing the game along. That could be because Math/TW are kind of driving the bus here, or not, so yeah.. for now Null.

Lots of hedging

Ruru

- Perfect amount of content for skum combined with the the content of that content. A little bit of the Game Set Up talk, a little bit of the rando joke around side content, some vote throws, and (what stood out to me) is just like lots of random questions. Not random I suppose, but questions that have been answered based on context of game or like ambiguous questions about general game play. They said this is their second game ever, so there could be that - but just a note from my POV, bc this site has so many ALTs, I disregard every player's "amount of games played posts".

Nah I believe she's telling the truth when she says this is her second game.

ofrhz

- So this is kind of my main spot at this point. Starting with the Vig shot concept from a while back "why wouldn't Vig shoot N1". Regardless of the correct play, I feel like looking like it from that perspective is

worried skum mindset

where as Town Mindset would be "Oh god what if I guessed wrong".


So yeah.

I don't see myself getting a Ruru train going rn based on everyone's posted standing

, so... VOTE: ofrhz

I'm not really seeing this? Someone brought up that vig is anti-town because a vig could just mis-fire on town, so I was trying to get at an optimal vig play here.

I kinda feel like you're going after me for being an easier mislynch than ruru.
VOTE: UglyDuck call it omgus, idgaf

not reading pedits lmao

no clue what to think of this, the content as nothing to do with the vote.

I think you may have the wrong duckling

Hey Scioness, you were probably confusing me with TW (he posted 480). Have I (upside duck) dodged any of your questions?

I'm going to change my avatar. Was fun being upside down while it lasted

yes I was, nah you are good. thanks for changing the icon.

Oxy, you realize your case on me is basically that I'm different from the last game? A lot of people have said the same thing about you

pedit: wat why

do you think that Oxy is right about you being different?

[Scioness Sajj]

@oxy
I know there was a post. I didn't really liked it so i asked for more. believe it or not but i read the game.

I don't care what you have decided, Explain 645 please.