Gunner Mafia [Endgame]

[Spiffeh]

Can we stop doing this thing where people apparently somewhat suspect me without explaining why or trying to engage me about it because I don’t feel like dealing with suddenly getting wagoned later on when it’s likely that most people that feel I’m town will be dead

Gonna quote this every time someone expresses a scum read on me without explanation

[Thor665]

I do feel like we're talking at cross purposes, allow me to try to clarify;

You're asking me why I'm brushing off his read reversal of Elli?
I don't think there was one? Saying "the wagon is not my jam" and then "reversing" to a stance of "I'm okay with it" is not really a big shift. You call that a handwave, yeah, it is, but it's like a handwave of a mosquito - where's the bison I'm warding off exactly?

I never said you were voting Grey because he was abusive, please quote where I did. I *did* say I believed some posters were doing that. theworst openly admitted to it being possible for him - so what's the issue here exactly?

Your case;
i) It's barely a transition in my opinion.
ii) I already admitted to agreeing with that a few posts ago - the issue is it's not his scum tone, is it?
iii) Grey always soapboxes, it's just a question of how effective it is. I will admit I tend to give this a pass due somewhat to the nature of early game Larges, and also to the specific nature of a solid portion of the playerbase in this game and how they're pushing cases.

I'm also not so excited to dismantle the Grey wagon as I am to build the Srceen one - which means I need to get voters from somewhere, and currently there are a lot on Grey.
I mostly keep commenting on Grey because people keep *asking* me why I'm not supporting that wagon and instead supporting Srceen - which I keep answering. If that's tryharding to kill the Grey wagon then so be it.

[Spiffeh]

Don't let Spiffeh slide with as little as he's been contributing.

This is the most effort I've put into a town game in a LONG time so you should consider yourself lucky that you're getting this much from me

And even then saying I've contributed "little" is just really untrue? I've probably been in the top 5 contributors in terms of actual content and effort this game.

[Spiffeh]

The rest of my week is p. busy so probably won't be able to check in too much before the end of the Day

Lynching GreyICE is fine with me, still scum reading him and Pan and pretty much no one else

Maybe if I wasn't so demotivated and annoyed at people refusing to explain scum reads on me I would be motivated to try harder!

[Gorkington]

Your case;
i) It's barely a transition in my opinion.
ii) I already admitted to agreeing with that a few posts ago - the issue is it's not his scum tone, is it?
iii) Grey always soapboxes, it's just a question of how effective it is. I will admit I tend to give this a pass due somewhat to the nature of early game Larges, and also to the specific nature of a solid portion of the playerbase in this game and how they're pushing cases.

ii) how would you describe his scum tone? how old is your reference point?
iii) i feel like townGrey spends less time outwardly soapboxing and spends more time directing his soapboxing at specific people he wants to do things.
the former feels more like an attempt to fake generating content where the latter would feel more like an attempt to actually get someone he thinks is scum lynched.
i really do not get the impression that he actually wanted to seriously accomplish the task of lynching hopkirk as its more useful to keep a player that cant rally the playerbase that you can use as a content generating punching bag.

p-edit: spiff is scum.

[Spiffeh]

Maybe if I wasn't so demotivated and annoyed at people refusing to explain scum reads on me I would be motivated to try harder!

omg this is such an awkward sentence I'm sorry everyone

[Centipede Syndrome]

I HAVE RETURNED

[Gorkington]

omg

[Centipede Syndrome]

omg.
~Chara

[Centipede Syndrome]

chara go study

[Centipede Syndrome]

I don't want to read any of this atm lmao.

[Centipede Syndrome]

I don't think I've acted obnoxious about being right about Maria yet so this is the post that represents that.

[Gorkington]

haha chara is getting bullied into being productive haha

The snarky answer is 'go look at his ISO' (which actually I think is a pretty valid answer).
But for my end I would say that he is playing in an obstructionist way

while claiming he is doing the opposite

yet refusing to back up said claims.
He's basically blustering while doing nothing.
Compare/contrast with Grey - who blusters while actively doing the things he's claiming he's doing.

so basically its like
i) his iso sucks - okay this is applicable for a few people though?
ii) can you pull where youre seeing the bolded?
besides the bolded, what gives you the impression that hes being scummy vs antitown here? can you throw specifics up?
iii) kind of confused why youre contrasting srceen with someone youve admitted youre not townreading.

p-edit: you dont want to read my posts?
what the fuck man

[Gorkington]

on a totally unrelated note, i could get behind an ausuka murderwagon.
getting some pretty good lurkerscum vibes there.

[Centipede Syndrome]

I'm reading up on the recent drama instead lol

i know you understand

[Centipede Syndrome]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php? ... 1&sr=posts

[Tchill13]

I'm still kind of playing in real time and not really keeping up with details.

Has ausuka been dealt with at all? I felt she was scum early like Grey and Maria.

[Mulch]

Ausuka has been prodded and has (expired on 2018-04-25 13:54:24) to respond or they will be replaced

[Ausuka]

yeah, I'm here. I just don't have much to say. Greyice is the current big thing but he's null to me. I still think pan is probably more likely scum than the other wagons.

[Tchill13]

Lol

[Thor665]

ii) how would you describe his scum tone? how old is your reference point?
iii) i feel like townGrey spends less time outwardly soapboxing and spends more time directing his soapboxing at specific people he wants to do things.
the former feels more like an attempt to fake generating content where the latter would feel more like an attempt to actually get someone he thinks is scum lynched.
i really do not get the impression that he actually wanted to seriously accomplish the task of lynching hopkirk as its more useful to keep a player that cant rally the playerbase that you can use as a content generating punching bag.

I note you ducked 1) even though you were complaining about me handwaving it. Isn't it a big point in your case? Shouldn't you be defending it from my handwave with more than empty bluster?
ii)I've played a number of games with him over the years, last one was probably like early 2017? Don't recall his alignment that time. I would call his scum tone as more aggressive with repetition and shouting down - he feels more laid back and directonless in his annoyance this game. Like the difference of being pissed at something, vs. being pissed at the world - make sense? How would you describe his scum tone and your issues with his tone?
iii)I think that's true of scum and town Grey, personally.
I'll agree he's not going after Hopkirk in a meaningful way, especially of late - I already agreed I found him more lynchable of late due to that.

i) his iso sucks - okay this is applicable for a few people though?
ii) can you pull where youre seeing the bolded?
besides the bolded, what gives you the impression that hes being scummy vs antitown here? can you throw specifics up?
iii) kind of confused why youre contrasting srceen with someone youve admitted youre not townreading.

i)I probably would be fine lynching those people too. I don't get your point, you appear to be agreeing his iso is scummy and terrible here.
ii) Specifically I would note the exchange I had where basically the following went down;
Thor: Here is a read
Srceenplay: That is a shallow read, you need to go DEEP
Thor: Like what? You haven't gone deep.
Srceenplay: I have!
Thor: Quote it?
::after some ducking and me trying to pin him down::
Srceenplay: Here's a read not about the person we were talking about!
Thor: Yeah, but you still didn't explain it earlier...and it's actually not that deep.
Srceenplay: ::ignores Thor. Lurks. Doesn't get voted::

It all starts about here;
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10112200
I would suggest ISOing just the two of us would make following the conversation flow easier.
He is blatantly ducking, telling at best half truths, and yet is acting justified. It's bollocks.

"Besides your case, what's your case" is your next question. Ya got me, if I ignore my case I don't have a case. I'm sure I could probably ISO him and come up with something nattery, because as you're clearly aware his ISO is garbage - but I'm presenting what I see as the most damning issue to discuss - so let's discuss that. If your best defense is "maybe he's just super anti-town" then, whatever. i could say that about Grey and it would be just as functional - the issue is the case and the points raised.

iii)At the time I was town reading him more. Though, frankly, even if I'm not (which I'm less so now) it's still valid in context of 'if peoplelike wagon A, why not vote for wagon B which is really just wagon A but with *more* on it"

[Gorkington]

im not continuing to argue my first point because it ultimately comes down to us feeling differing levels of significance in him having switched his read there. you think its meaningless because its barely a transition and i think its meaningful because i dont think townGrey would transition his read at all in that situation.
is there really a valuable discussion to be had here?
its kind of silly that youre phrasing it as me ducking it. like, thats really the first thing that comes to mind for you there rather than just "hes not interested in talking about this point anymore"?

Like the difference of being pissed at something, vs. being pissed at the world - make sense? How would you describe his scum tone and your issues with his tone?

im not as familiar with his scum meta.
it just isnt lining up with my expectations of his town meta.

i)I probably would be fine lynching those people too. I don't get your point, you appear to be agreeing his iso is scummy and terrible here.

im not overly enthused by the idea of lynching someone just because theyre playing like shit?

"Besides your case, what's your case" is your next question. Ya got me, if I ignore my case I don't have a case. I'm sure I could probably ISO him and come up with something nattery, because as you're clearly aware his ISO is garbage - but I'm presenting what I see as the most damning issue to discuss - so let's discuss that. If your best defense is "maybe he's just super anti-town" then, whatever. i could say that about Grey and it would be just as functional - the issue is the case and the points raised.

i mean, the bolded is referring to "where is he claiming that hes not being obstructionist" because i didnt see it.
and the question about the non-bolded was wondering whether you were finding the obstructionism itself scummy and if so why?
if the two points are meant to be directly linked together exclusively then thats the only answer i needed.

will try to read the back-and-forth tonight when im not at work.

[Nero Cain]

12th hour "save the GREYICE!" is lame.

[Nero Cain]

Well I guess 22 hours is not as bad as I thought

[Brigand Vvulf]

12th hour "save the GREYICE!" is lame.

Fan the flames!
Mold the metal!
Save the GREYICE!
Order the FRIED RICE!

We are raising a counter wagon!

VOTE: srceenplay