Open 721: Pick Your Poison (Game Over)

[northsidegal]

i'm not really convinced that oxy is scum, if that's what you're asking.

the scioness wagon seems nonexistant to me looking at the latest votecount, so i'm inclined to say no?

[ruru]

town but i fucked up recently by not catching her D1 under her geriatric alt
so i'm wary given that people seem to worship my ability to read her

I really don't like this

[the worst]

Math is p candid. We are not lynching him today tho.

Oxy = best

[ruru]

I guess I don't understand why he's saying it now rather than earlier and it feels like he's trying to undermine his tr because he's "only" 10/11 at reading her on day 1 or something? Which is still super good and should be enough to make her one of the towniest players in the game if he's town

I also think the slot is super likely to be town after rereading mohab

Like suppose mohab is scum

Why would he make that post after deciding to replace, that make his slot look worse if his replacement continues to not want to lynch Oxy (because a town replacement is more likely to change reads than a scum replacement whose reads had a necessary strategic purpose)?

Why would town have to tell him about replacing, rather than talking about it in PT

And suppose the whole "I forgot about replacing thing" was faked, probably after discussing the best exit in PT? Then why would he still make the other post

[ofrhz]

Last thoughts

@skitter-

1560, 1582 - you were scumreading Oxy for a whole slew of reasons and those reasons suddenly evaporated because you became more sure of scum!Math and didn’t think Math/Oxy was a thing??? I remember town!skitter in 1859 being extremely wary of association-based reads pre flip. It doesn’t seem like any of your original reasons for scumreading Oxy were ever addressed, but you dropped them as of 1623

The timing of your Oxy unvote and Math vote is also uncanny; you unvoted

as the Oxy wagon was reaching a critical point

(I believe sunshine and pin had just joined the wagon, not sure if there were others cuz I’m too lazy to check) in order to start an entirely new wagon less than 2 days until the deadline. This makes me think you didn’t want to be responsible for an Oxy wagon

——

I think if Oxy is town, skitter is slightly more likely to flip scum. She feels towny aside from what I just pointed out

UD is still scummy imo

Most of Scioness’s thoughts on the game are about me, which is awfully convenient, especially given that I had been the #1 vig shot for a while by the time she voted for me. I think time possibly could have been a constraining factor in this day phase but her case didn’t even make sense against me (although admittedly this last bit could be NAI)

(skitter, Scioness) could be a thing if you look at their posts in ISO

Draynth is still a better lynch than Oxy

——

HURT: ofrhz

[skitter30]

And where the flying fuck did you get the idea that I thought he was scum for inactivity
The #NoBamboozle post was SARCASTIC
I've been very clear this whole time about why I was scumreading him
The fact that he barely plays the game is icing on the cake

I'm not reexplaining myself to you if you're gonna choose not to read my posts

As far as I can tell, the main reason you think he's scummy besides for activity is that he has a lazy townread of you. The problem that I have with that is that you brought that up ~800 posts after he did so, after having him in your lynch/vig pool the entire day.

Immediately after he had that read on you, I had him in my scumreads, and you told me that one of the reasons you didn't like my readslist was because having him as scum was a lazy/low-hanging-fruit-y read; you had no problem with his read on you at that point.

Because of that, it feels like you're looking for a reason to call him scummy that isn't just activity. Like that entire time between when he made that read and when you called him out on it a week later you pretty much had him in your lynch/vig pool for being dead weight.

--

Never once have I said that him promising content and not delivering or him just being not active in general makes him scum.

I didn't say you did.

Math said that, although I apparently was not supposed to take that post seriously.

(And then he says things like the following, which looks to me like he's at least partially calling him out for lurking cuz he's under pressure ...)

Draynth strikes me as the type that lurks it out whenever things get rough

UD is affectively voting him for active-lurking and beetle-juicing (I'm not particularly convinced he's doing either) 1279

Ap is voting him because he wants him to claim if he's a TPR and because he isn't providing content.

Oxy's at least partially voting him as a survival vote, and he said the following:

Skitter and Draynth switched places primarily because Draynth has been prod dodging for days on days, but also in part because of how strongly NSG feels.

--

Last thoughts

@skitter-

1560, 1582 - you were scumreading Oxy for a whole slew of reasons and those reasons suddenly evaporated because you became more sure of scum!Math and didn’t think Math/Oxy was a thing??? I remember town!skitter in 1859 being extremely wary of association-based reads pre flip. It doesn’t seem like any of your original reasons for scumreading Oxy were ever addressed, but you dropped them as of 1623

The timing of your Oxy unvote and Math vote is also uncanny; you unvoted

as the Oxy wagon was reaching a critical point

(I believe sunshine and pin had just joined the wagon, not sure if there were others cuz I’m too lazy to check) in order to start an entirely new wagon less than 2 days until the deadline. This makes me think you didn’t want to be responsible for an Oxy wagon

a) we established that I don't have some all-consuming fear of being on/responsible for townflips

b) I really, really don't think oxy/math are partners. IE, I think that there's at most one scum between them. IE that means that since I think math is significantly more scummy than oxy, I'm voting math. Oxy's still scummy. Math's just more so, and in a way that makes me think that oxy probably isn't scum even though I think he's scummy.

c) I'm aware about the pre-flip thing, but the way that Math is treating the oxy wagon makes me very uncomfortable. The way he's treating the draynth wagon makes me more uncomfortable. I'm pretty much at the point where I don't want to be on anything he wants. (I'm aware that he doesn't want Oxy. I think he's pocketing town!oxy).

('what about pre-flips'? Sometimes I feel strongly enough about someone being scum that I don't want to push anything they're pushing. Nobody ever really reached that threshold in 1859. Math did here; Mulch did here; and I probably can think of some other examples if necessary)

d) I'm aware that Math isn't getting lynched today. I feel fairly confidant that Math is scum. I don't feel that confidant about either Oxy or draynth.

--

Yeah I'm tearing my hair out on EOD Skitter. On one hand voting you like that struck me as ridiculous from scum!skitter but otoh it felt like she hadnt read everything properly...?

I *think* I'm reading things properly. I also haven't slept in like a week, so if I'm not, it would probably be a good idea to point that out ...

Also don't really think that 'not-reading-things-properly' is a scumtell for me; ask Oxy ...

--

do we have 2 competing scum wagons

is that where we're at

Pretty sure we don't. Gamestate doesn't feel like that's what's happening right now.

[Mathdino]

you're never going to get correct reads as long as you hold the view of "never push anything math is willing to push"
especially considering you haven't even done the research to see what my scum self's stance is on how to deal with and interact with my scumpartners
in fact you haven't even seemed to really put that much effort into figuring out my scumpartners at all
majority of the game seems to agree i can't be scum with oxy, so what the fuck is this gamestate, skitter

in other news i get the feeling scum are laughing at me and my reads in the PT :/

still not sure what to do with this game

[ruru]

I think if Oxy is town, skitter is slightly more likely to flip scum. She feels towny aside from what I just pointed out

UD is still scummy imo

I suppose I could see scum!skitter with scum!UD not reading daytalk; it's always easier to lie when the lie has basis in reality

I don't like her timing on voting Md and I think I don't like it regardless of Oxy's alignment, but still townleaning both of them

(skitter, Scioness) could be a thing if you look at their posts in ISO

Which interactions should we be looking at specifically?

[UglyDuck]

@Ugly: I do see your point, and I'm not arguing against it. I guess didn't totally disregard the possibility Drayth could flip scum after all, so it inadvertently factored in my phrasing.

The way I see it is if Drayth is town he's not doing himself (or us) any favours, and especially so if he is indeed a PR, so I wanted to force a claim out of his slot.

Update: Draynth staying in the shadows until I removed my vote off him THEN coming on to say he won't claim is actually bothering me even more now.

VOTE: Draynth

And Mathdino already stated intent.

Why would you want to force a town PR to claim their spot? no skum PRs possible in this game right, so it would have to be a town PR?

Also, and I am assuredly not defending him, but just pointing out that I think Draynth said (correctly) "I am at L-2 not L-1, so I am not going to claim".

also ballsack to everything bc this is feeling more like a TvT wagon by the second.

[Draynth]

I'm at L-2 so I'm not claiming

Oxy is scum, so is MD at this point

If that's all he's got to say after all that time, I don't think bad to rejoin that wagon at all.

I mean I'm still at L-2 so i'm not gonna claim now either

Why would I ever claim if I'm not actually going to be lynched?

[Mathdino]

you can't be serious. we have less than 24 hours on the deadline. claim now or you won't have a chance to later

[the worst]

Might be able to get in on a Draynth lynch if no claim

[Draynth]

Actually I didn't realise it was only 12 hours, I'd still

really

rather not if I don't have to though

[ruru]

Can you at least post up to date reads?

[Draynth]

Can you at least post up to date reads?

Working on it as we speak, sorry for the delay

[Mathdino]

You're softclaiming pr already
You guys wanna let him eat nightkill or what?

[the worst]

Yup not touchin that
Back to our regular scheduled programming
I still want Oxy

[Draynth]

And skitter30 you don't get to vanity wagon me with 26 hours on the deadline
I don't know if you're trying to stay off both wagons or what
I gave the option to lynch scioness and people chose her counterwagons
Not lynching oxy no matter what you think of my progression on him

BTW found this post hilarious given he tried to start an NSG wagon with like 30 hours left on the deadline

[skitter30]

HE IS LITERALLY DOING THE EXACT OPPOSITE

You misread the reasoning for my scum reads and now this. Skitter, PLZ READ

That's not really how I read it, but yeah I guess I can see the other way too.

I was just saying I didn't want to be lynched, sorry Skitter

Ftr once it was pointed out to me that I misread this, I realized it was likely a PR soft, and not a VT soft like I initially read it.

Hence why I've been against the draynth thing this whole time

Also one of the reasons that I'm suspicious of math is cuz I low-key think he should have recognized that, and, like, laid off the PR soft instead of trying to lynch them for having a lazy read on him

Like, even AP of all people picked up on this and decided that wagoning him for a claim *if he's town* was a good fucking idea

[Mathdino]

Why does everyone assume I actively hunt for PRs as town
It's not my job
I soft PR as scum specifically to bait that shit

[the worst]

Uuhhh Math has a rep for scumreading the fuck out of PRs as town

[Mathdino]

We're lynching scioness let's go
If this is wrong, don't townbloc NSG unless she supertowns

[the worst]

one sec lemme type up a goon cop fakeclaim and deathtunnel math

[/sarcasm]

[the worst]

Still lynchin oxy

[ruru]

You're softclaiming pr already

I don't see why it's beneficial to specify the role in this situation

Specifying the role allows scum to tell, in 2/5 cases, whether it's VT fake softing a role outside the setup or not