Open 721: Pick Your Poison (Game Over)

[AP]

Unconditional love, and all of your earthly possessions at the time of your death.

Sound good?

Deal! I mean, considering I'm actually an extra-terrestrial who came to this planet for a quick visit (200 years), I would say that's a bargain indeed.

[Oxy]

okay, but i still get your possessions if you leave earth before the time of your death.

[Mathdino]

so draynth's been posting in another game

[UglyDuck]

okay, but i still get your possessions if you leave earth before the time of your death.

gonna set this one up because I can't help myself...
"AP.. what possessions would he get in this case?"

[ruru]

Oh I know where this is headed

[AP]

"AP.. what possessions would he get in this case?"

[AP]

Oh I know where this is headed

I like the fact that you though this ahead.

[UglyDuck]

also - Draynth... you around?

[northsidegal]

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[UglyDuck]

I'm ready for d3

Draynth, if you're actually a PR, the best thing you can do right now is just post your night action before someone decides to lol-1 vote you

I think you're going to get scumread no matter what it was at this point

The reason I am OK with a Draynth lynch is because skum both would lynch him if he was town and wouldn't lynch him if he was skum. However, to skum read him without considering the WIFOM alternative is (imo) super skummy. the fact his D2 wagon started so quickly is at least slightly suspicious as well.

Also I'm scumreading this

I guess I don't get why this is skummy. I clearly stated I am ok with a lynch, but I sure as hell am not putting him to L1 before we hear something (or I guess if he like drew it out for the next however many days until end of day). Also, while my reasoning on the wagon is strongly correlated to his flip, I feel like it makes pretty good sense - Either he is Town and there are probably multiple skum on his wagon, or he is skum and there are probably multiple skum off his wagon. I am not pushing any ideas with it, it is more a note to be looked back on tomorrow in case tomorrow I am not around to say it.

[ruru]

I guess I don't believe you're oblivious to Draynth being a good bus candidate, also the wifom lines seem pretty -ev for scum in this case

[ruru]

I think scum's priorities in this setup are to shoot PRs and to set up believable fakeclaims/mislynches due to the lack of counterclaims. Doing those things is extremely +ev whether or not town chooses to do X or Y in wifom situations

I feel like it's nowhere near the same thing as actual wifom situations that barely mean anything like shooting a player who had

lucky

good d1 reads

Like, suppose Draynth was cop and shared his result and then we lynched him because of wifom. Congrats?

[Mathdino]

I'm here to shoot PRs and mislynch townies

AND I'M ALL OUT OF PRS

[ruru]

I came up with some strategy to reduce scum's claim space based on IC claiming D1.

I'm here to out the IC

[brassherald]

No VC tonight it hasn't changed

[Sunshine13]

Like, suppose Draynth was cop and shared his result and then we lynched him because of wifom. Congrats?

He already said he’s not.

Even then, he’d just be a VT at that point who hasn’t contributed much, so it wouldn’t be the worst lynch in the world if it basically gave us another IC.

[skitter30]

- we go to night 1 and they know there is Role X Role Y and Math!IC - If there is a JK they kill outside Math, and I do not get the disagreement here, but as Math has know potential of producing addtionial results.... why would they kill the IC N1 instead of aiming outside even without the JK in play? The last game I was in on this site, skum chose to kill the IC N1 and I thought it was wrong then too. Especially in a game like this where they have the Day Chat... The IC is confirmed town... but they are not confirmed correct. No one thinks that skum would see the advantage in playing off of that?

This kinda feels like scum defending a nk that town wildly thought was stupid.

The reason I am OK with a Draynth lynch is because skum both would lynch him if he was town and wouldn't lynch him if he was skum. However, to skum read him without considering the WIFOM alternative is (imo) super skummy. the fact his D2 wagon started so quickly is at least slightly suspicious as well.

Why wouldn't they have bussed him? And what's the WIFOM alternative?

Do you think Draynth is town or do you think he's scum? After reading this I can't really tell tbh. I know that you're OK with his lynch, but I can't tell why. Like according to what you wrote, you think that the fact that the wagon built so quickly is indicative of scum propelling it along, and that they wouldn't be bussing him. So why would you be OK with that lynch?

I'm in work at the minute will catch up and post when I get home

Okay, yeah. Draynth could claim Oxy's Mom and I'd still push for a lynch at this point.

Holding up the game is bad form.

I mean I think it's fairly apparent that he's going to lie at this point, but I feel like the lie itself may be instructive.

Also can you point me to where you thought tw vt claimed?

Like, suppose Draynth was cop and shared his result and then we lynched him because of wifom. Congrats?

He already said he wasn't. His options are jk (why isn't he dead?), vig (who either didn't shoot or inexplicably shot tw), or tracker.

[Oxy]

Here you go, skitter

I have no like major issues with being lynched here but

Imploring town (which I should have done last time I was lined up for a mislynch)

IF I AM THE LYNCH THEN WHEN I FLIP GREEN BURN THE DINOSAUR TO DEATH

I think this one speaks for itself...

[skitter30]

- we go to night 1 and they know there is Role X Role Y and Math!IC - If there is a JK they kill outside Math, and I do not get the disagreement here, but as Math has know potential of producing addtionial results.... why would they kill the IC N1 instead of aiming outside even without the JK in play? The last game I was in on this site, skum chose to kill the IC N1 and I thought it was wrong then too. Especially in a game like this where they have the Day Chat... The IC is confirmed town... but they are not confirmed correct. No one thinks that skum would see the advantage in playing off of that?

@oxy:

If this is the reasoning scum used to not-kill math, I suppose that I shouldn't be clearing you for thinking tw was a vt, but I also really have trouble seeing you decide to kill not-math for this reason.

Although you and tw had that thing, I really, really don't see you making that kill unless you were specifically jk-reading him.

[Oxy]

@skitter I thought you were clearing me because I was keeping track of VT claims, TW had softed VT, and any kill outside of Mathdino would have been performed with the intention of killing a PR.

I'm having trouble following your thinking. Why does the reason Mathdino was killed matter at all?

[Oxy]

EBWOP reason Mathdino was not* killed

;P

[UglyDuck]

I guess I don't believe you're oblivious to Draynth being a good bus candidate, also the wifom lines seem pretty -ev for scum in this case

I disagree about the -ev wifom.

Please explain to me why Skum!Me is more likely to bus Draynth as opposed to Skum!"someone else".

[skitter30]

@skitter I thought you were clearing me because I was keeping track of VT claims, TW had softed VT, and any kill outside of Mathdino would have been performed with the intention of killing a PR.

I'm having trouble following your thinking. Why does the reason Mathdino was killed matter at all?

Yeah basically the first line.

I think UD's arguing that scum would have left math alive to lead town astray (and that therefore woudln't have been PR hunting). And I'm saying that I don't think scum!you does that either.

[UglyDuck]

I think scum's priorities in this setup are to shoot PRs and to set up believable fakeclaims/mislynches due to the lack of counterclaims. Doing those things is extremely +ev whether or not town chooses to do X or Y in wifom situations

I feel like it's nowhere near the same thing as actual wifom situations that barely mean anything like shooting a player who had

lucky

good d1 reads

Like, suppose Draynth was cop and shared his result and then we lynched him because of wifom. Congrats?

your missing the point -
Math (more specifically the IC) has ABSOLUTELY NO POWER WHATSOEVER. I mean obv that is not true, but the IC power is limited to knowing that Town can trust their reads and they are removed from the lynch pool. The lynch pool part becomes more and more important as the game continues (because smaller field size), but the reads part has the same prejudice always - it is just their opinion.

Where as the value of (as you put it) a cop, is their opinion is not an opinion - it is an actual result.

Opinions are based on bias (whether accurate or not), and in this game not just the opinion, but also the reception of the opinion. Results are... results.

[Oxy]

Oh. I think that UD is saying that they would have left mathdino alive because the value of killing confirmed-and maybe-bad!town is less than the value of potentially killing a PR.

I might do that depending on how bad Mathdino's reads are. =)

p.edit he explained.