Open 724 - Pick Your Power X/Y [Endgame]

[Lalendra]

That’s super irrelevant; when did you think I thought MathDino was MathBlade?

When you called him MathBlade?

DEAD

[Lalendra]

That’s super irrelevant; when did you think I thought MathDino was MathBlade?

VOTE: Ircher

You've been tingling my scum sensors ever since your second post but I decided not to vote you because I wanted to see where the janitor wagon would go.

This post bothers me because it reacts to brass' comment as though it was supposed to be game solving. Furthermore, the question here is phrased in a way that tries to appear like its game solving itself. Honestly, this just feels like scum trying to look busy.

Add that to how Ircher seems intent on shutting down any form of setup spec and seems to focus too much on other people's reads (in my opinion) and judge them based on that. That makes me comfortable with this vote.

I am inclined to agree with everything Mutant says here but holding off on voting til I finish catching up.

[Eddie Cane]

VOTE: Janitor

[yessiree]

VC 1.14

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch

Ircher (3) -

, mutantdevle, SaskeIsMyYaoiKismesis, the worst

Lalendra (2) -

Taly, Ircher

Lovebird (2) -

Iconeum, Ausuka

Iconeum (1) -

davesaz

Taly (1) -

Lovebird

The Janitor (1) -

Eddie Cane

Not voting

- Lalendra, The Janitor, Myloninja13, Mathdino

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2018-05-15 20:00:00)

[Lalendra]

I can read Ircher well and I think this is his scumgame. The way I read Ircher is simple; he has an unique personality as town, which he doesn't really emulate as scum; additionally, as town he is generally a good player who makes sense and has good reads but can do odd things; as scum, he is often quite nickpicky and flat. I think this game shows the latter. (Although now that I've said this I probably can't use it in future games with him... oh well)

VOTE: Ircher

This is really helpful and definitely reinforces my Ircher scumlean.

Holy shit <post>429</post> sucks to read.

...You literally posted an entire wall (much of which was "fair enough, null") and then two posts later everyone is either null or neutral (not sure I understand the need to separate those) except you (shocking) and one person whose "posts continue to not really be good". That's it?

tl;dr of ircher's reads list: i am going to summarise why 80% of the posts in this game are null and then give a reads list in which 80% of the players are null

Aaaaaand Math beats me to it, as usual.

I think mutant has been more 'conventionally' towny tonally this game than he usually seems??

That's actually part of the reason I'm having trouble sorting him, usually when we play he is town and I'm convinced he's scum. The fact that he's acting towny gives me more pause than if I was certain he was scum.

How do you deduce percentages of someone being scum FROM RANDOMIZED NUMBERS?

The numbers aren't randomized at all, the art of picking numbers is half of the strategy in this setup for both scum and town.

Nevermind, apparently Math already explained that.

Up to page 23

[the worst]

Are we lynching Lalen yet

[Lalendra]

I'm sorry, can you mindread people and why they'd pick numbers they did for the draft?

There is a comically large difference between "the numbers are randomized" and "the numbers were carefully chosen by individual players in accordance with logic I'm just not privy to."

to my great disappointment, i just came up for air from the metadive and i think taly might have to be town

FWIW, when I played with Taly before and they posted walls that irritated me on-sight, they were town.

Not Voting: The only one not voting that I'm actually townreading is Taly. Lalendra's ISO goes so far beyond "lynchbaity Lalendra" into the realm of "I am actively not doing anything this game".

This is a busy month for me, plus I had rehearsals Friday night and all day Saturday. I'm gonna try to make up for it now though \o/

Ausuka's <post>568</post> is super waffly in terms of a read on Ircher. I've never seen someone flip-flop that much on one person in one post.

Setup spec is not intrinsicly scummy; however, doing it exclusively IS for multiple reasons

I am still not seeing why people are accusing Math of doing ONLY setup spec. Like, in the first couple of pages, sure. Things have changed a lot since then. And in contrast with Mutant, I actually do think this is town!Math.

Math's <post>621</post> is pure art. I'm not even going to respond to the wagon on me and all the back-and-forth because it was based on RVS posting and my absence since then, which I already explained.

pedit: wait I did NOT notice that ircher was voting Lalendra ｢(ﾟﾍﾟ)

That's cuz the mod made a mistake... Is there an issue with that?

Weirdly defensive

I still currently prefer Lalendra despite having a greater scumread on The Janitor, primarily because again, they have been wagoned basically the entire game, and the Janitor wagon had no real counter at its peak.

Weird, the only other person in danger of being lynched today, besides me, prefers that I be the one to be lynched. CRAZY

Up to 36

[Lalendra]

Comfortable with this for now

<vote>Ircher</vote>

[Lalendra]

jfc why. HTML, you done me wrong

VOTE: Ircher

[Lalendra]

LALEN is the best choice

Ducklings are so cute, why do you hate me

[Taly]

I wanna chat w Taly sometime when hes recovered and I can set some time aside ftr

I'm willing to talk any time, as long as the following doesn't happen:

1)

Refuse to explain something when I ask a question.

2)

Talk to me as if I'm incapable of rational, independent, or critical thought. Like I don't know how to read or reason with something.

3)

Somehow literally miss the complete point of my posts and sentiments even when I've made them explicitly clear.

4)

Fail to ask when the point of my posts are not well understood

5)

Write me off as toxic or hostile when I'm expressing a conflicting opinion.

6)

Call me shit town without really engaging with me.

7)

Focus 100% on one aspect of my posts or my opinions without looking at the other.

Because these are the majority of the issues I've had in this game.

I do realize to an extent I am doing this whole

"I'm sad"

loop that I've done in pre-2-year-absence before, but I don't want that to be consistent now.

And yeah, I am still feeling a bit upset about last night, but I don't think I'll feel better until I let my thoughts be known and talk

WITH

someone, so I can work more efficiently toward solving the game.

~

I'm going to dedicate a post to re-ISOing

Ircher

, and evaluating

SIMYK's

case in depth.

Lalendra;

1)

What makes you comfortable with the

Ircher

vote?

2)

What do you think about the wagon that was on you?

3)

General readslist?

[mutantdevle]

And in contrast with Mutant, I actually do think this is town!Math.

Can you clarify on what you mean by this?

[davesaz]

I'm 9 pages behind, sick with a coughing sneezing thing, and having heavy days of work (from home).
Marking my spot at bottom of page 35.

[Ircher]

1. In 923:

So you're thinking this is more meta-based for Lovebird? I haven't seen enough to think otherwise, so I'd like to see some more explanation.

Yes, I do believe so; however, I must admit that this is a conjecture I made rather than something I verified. I'm pretty sure other people have meta experience with Lovebird and can verify if this a playstyle thing or not, though

by the fact that they have not jumped on Lovebird yet for their lack of explanations, my conjecture is likely true.

2. In 929:

It just all begins with an IRCHER lynch.

.................................................................................What did you think about letting a cop check me N1 and lynching Janitor D1? (Although, it is not guaranteed we have a cop, but.........................................................)

3. In 937:

VOTE: Iconeum

I don't think this is a mechanically sound vote? Regardless, Iconeum isn't really pinging me, and I think the same can be said for the majority of the thread as of present.

4. In 956:

39 is a STRONG town interaction with me, and EVEN if you do NOT agree with the reads in 14 it shows that he’s ACTIVELY sorting the game, saying he’s not SCUMHUNTING is disingenuous when he has 2 SCUMHUNTING posts and basically 2 SETUP related posts, the ratio here is VISIBLY about equal

Okay, in terms of 39, I agree after looking at it yet again that it is more likely a town than scum interaction. As far as ratios go:

11 is setup-related. 12 is setup-related. 14 hardly quantifies as scumhunting imo, esp. when the reads are

very likely

to be setup-related rather than based on actions those members have taken so far. (Like, I don't have definitive proof that those are reads based on the draft, but I don't think you can really say that those reads come from scumhunting.) 15 is definitely setup-related. I don't really consider 17 scumhunting

since

Mathdino said it is a policy-related vote versus a "I'm reading you scummy" vote. 24 is a meta read on Beefster trying to support the PL, so again, I don't really consider that scumhunting. 37 counts as scumhunting as does 39. So yes, I guess your assessment of the ratio of setup-related posts to scumhunting posts is fairly equal is pretty accurate;

however

, you also understand that certain kinds of posts stand out more (which this probably doesn't help my case, but...) and setup-related posts tend to do that.

I would BELIEVE that the natural way to read someone is to see LATER, MORE SCUMHUNTING posts as MORE alignment indicative than EARLY posts discussing the setup, NOT viceversa. Keeping him at NULL after seeing GENUINE content from him does NOT sit well with me

This has to do in part with paranoia, and tbqh, for me, first impressions do matter

as they tend to tint my future reading of someone regardless of if that's fair or not. As to the paranoia part: 1) Scum can "look" like they are legitly scumhunting, and while I am not necessarily accusing Mathdino of doing such here, it is important to note that I factor such possibility into my reads 2) I'm not going to go in-depth about that, but I try to factor possible biases into my reads.

I think it's VERY clear that this did NOT happen, town!IRCHER would be AWARE of this personality conflict in the SAME WAY. BUT ircher CONTINUES to talk about MATHDINO as we see later on! （・□・；）

Have you ever tried to completely stop paying attn to someone? It is way more difficult than you think. That said, I won't deny that what you say here is fairly accurate. And yes, to a certain degree, the acknowledgement is to keep people from complaining too much. But it is also an acknowledgement that I will have to trust someone else's read there more than my own, and I feel my read there has been

fairly consistent

somewhat consistent with that notion (considering I don't exactly trust anyone reads-wise enough at the moment; that should probably change).

I CANNOT compute with this post, if you actually READ the post Math-sensei is referring to it is a RESPONSE to Ausuka - Lalendra even SAID in her signature that she's USUALLY lynchbait, and the post Math-sensei linked and the one Ausuka-chan scumread seem very SIMILAR in personality profile. So OBVIOUSLY math-sensei should be HESITANT to push this wagon, whether he's PARTNERED with Lalendra or NOT! (*•̀ᴗ•́*)

Fair enough.

Do I even HAVE to explain why this is a SHITTAKE read （￣へ￣）

Yeah, I kinda did go a bit over the top there when making that post...

5. In 974:

Not explainging things isn't my scum style. Everyone just always townreads big walls and explanations anyways.

(This is one of the biases I factor in...)

6. In 1018:

My main issue with it is (SIMYK you're a fucking wizard for this) it feels like he's coming in and lecturing @ the thread rather than jumping in and engaging with people

(I don't disagree with this sentiment.)

7. In 1024:

why the **** haven't you been screaming at everyone that ircher is town when ircher has been by far the most likely lynch for the majority of the day

i was waiting for you to come into the thread and actually state a read and you did jack

While I'm probably not in a position to judge accurately, are you sure that is a fair assessment? I mean, I have tbh that given what Ausuka said, I'm a bit surprised that she hasn't said more, but I still think that what she has done in general this game has aligned with her beliefs as to my alignment. Also, what about posting times? Perhaps Ausuka hasn't been in a position to post as much? (I haven't been paying attn to that so I cannot say; just something to consider).

8. In 1028:

is half of the original playerlist just gamethrowing or what

I don't think anyone has came close to game-throwing... I mean, I guess we can count A50's self-vote and Beefster's claim, but I hardly take Ausuka's sentiment as game-throwing...

9. In 1029:

If youre town and get vigged and have reads you were highly confident in yes we will look at them

In my experience, this has rarely happened in practice. (That is, people looking at town people's reads after they die.)

10. In 1034:

except I've literally talked about how I don't have as strong a read on Ircher as usual and I haven't really been seeing him as "by far the most likely lynch" at all

I believe that your actions reflect what you state;

however

, 80% confidence still counts as pretty high imo, and I think that is in part what Mathdino is getting at.

11. In 1047:

Meta is a PERFECTLY valid tool to use and I do NOT think Ausuka-chan is in the WRONG for relying on it (ﾉ^ヮ^)ﾉ*:・ﾟ✧

It is VERY effective to use on players whom people MISREAD often, like how CREATURE used to be before his meta was WIDELY KNOWN!

Totally agree with this.

12. In 1073:

Low content
Low frequency
High scumminess
High in drafts

Delicious cocktail of scum PRness

Why are you so not focused on it?

I feel your earlier assessment did a more convincing job tbh.

13. In 1079:

...You literally posted an entire wall (much of which was "fair enough, null") and then two posts later everyone is either null or neutral (not sure I understand the need to separate those) except you (shocking) and one person whose "posts continue to not really be good". That's it?

First of all

, you do realize that the "notes" and the reads go hand-in-hand?
Second of all, did you try reading the second spoiler about how to read the reads list? You would know I separate Neutral and Null and while you may not agree with how I separate them, you should treat my neutral reads as more/less serious reads. (In other words, saying everyone is either null or neutral is a meaningless statement as the neutral reads aren't really a "no read" or even a "very weak read" thing; it just has to do with the level of confidence. Again, you don't have to agree with the system, but please try to acknowledge it.)

14. In 1080:

Are we lynching Lalen yet

^.

15. In 1081:

Ausuka's <post>568</post> is super waffly in terms of a read on Ircher. I've never seen someone flip-flop that much on one person in one post.

I disagree significantly. Out of context, yes. Did you factor in Ausuka's meta experience before making this statement?

[Quotes 833] Weirdly defensive

I guess it may seem like that in a way... I'm not really trying to be super aggressive about it there though, as you should see from the ensuing response to the post.

I still currently prefer Lalendra despite having a greater scumread on The Janitor, primarily because again, they have been wagoned basically the entire game, and the Janitor wagon had no real counter at its peak.

Weird, the only other person in danger of being lynched today, besides me, prefers that I be the one to be lynched. CRAZY

I'm not sure this is even close to an accurate statement; who said they completely eliminated The Janitor from their lynch pool? Regardless, this isn't really weird when I give some reasons for such.

[Ircher]

Since I'm not part of the townbloc, my opinion doesn't matter. Thus, I should just VOTE: Ircher and let the townbloc coordinate a town win.

[Mathdino]

hey that's L-1

intent to policyhammer this shit to kingdom come

[Mathdino]

to think! i was just about to push janitor instead

[Taly]

I'll never understand self-votes.

Wait, I'm typing things up in response to

SIMYK and Ircher

.

And I'd prefer to have

Lalendra

and

the worst

reply to me before the dayphase ends.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Lalendra

[Eddie Cane]

well that lasted long

[Eddie Cane]

VOTE: Ircher
back to l1 you go

[Ircher]

That was L-2, and it was an obvious parody of one of Ausuka's earlier posts.

[Ircher]

have you even been reading my posts

i'm getting vigged anyway and once I get vigged nobody will care about my reads so i'm not inclined to spend a lot of time and effort detailing them

[the worst]

VOTE: Ircher

[Taly]

SIMYK

So is the root of your case based on

Ircher's

stance with

Math

? I read through your case, and I do agree with some of the points you brought up; in regards to his unclear read of

Math

429, and the comment of

"we're never going to see eye-to-eye"

seems like creating a division and not desiring to work with someone disagreeing with him.

And there are some things you brought up that I drew a different conclusion and thought.

((Refer to my questions toward him))

Overall, I don't see a strong link to scum-motivation here. I feel like the uncertainty within his reads could also come from town working to make sense of the game. Furthermore, I'm still a bit worried about the lack of resistance on his wagon, that's a big thing that strikes me as off about a lynch on

Ircher

. There's not a lot of derailment on the suspicion towards him.

Also, is his lynch partially policy because of the townbloc formulated?

Mathdino

, can you refer me to your posts on the townbloc and the conclusions over that? I think I've missed some of those posts. :/

Ircher

1)

851

Oh really? Then why are you not pushing those scumreads. (I mean, if you are talking about me, you have said you scumread me all, but you aren't really pushing your scumread of me in a way that is leading anywhere.) The Janitor wagon has existed all game, and it has basically gone... nowhere. And I don't see you pushing any other scumreads.

I don't buy this that much. You haven't pushed your scumreads much as well. Could you provide your reads beyond the

Lalendra

's posts? Also, what are your thoughts on

Janitor

's wagon?

In the same breath, I don't know why you'd resign to your lynch. :/ Some of your actions are inconsistent with your thoughts.

2)

I haven't seen anybody explain their meta reads on

Lovebird

in depth, so I don't know why people assume they're town without trying to gauge for their reasons. They haven't really scumhunted much at all because their posts revolve around vaguely stating something is either scummy or towny.

With the content in this game thus far, I feel like people overlook this, and I want you to elaborate on your read here before any hammer occurs.

That was L-2, and it was an obvious parody of one of Ausuka's earlier posts.

...So the purpose of your self-vote was...?