Newbie 1867 - Game Over

[Huntress]

Vote Count 1.5

vulcan logician (2) - Ircher, Nachomamma8
Alciel (2) - ofrhz, Harambey180
Ircher (2) - Draynth, vulcan logician
Harambey180 (1) - Alciel
Ventriloquist (1) - Etromin
Etromin (1) - Ventriloquist

Not voting (0) -


With nine players alive, it takes five votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day One is Wednesday, 16th May, 09.00. BST, (in (expired on 2018-05-16 09:00:00)).

ofrhz has been prodded.

[Ventriloquist]

Post #110: Ventriloquist compiles some abbrevations in a list, which also includes RVS, standing for Random Voting Stage.
Post #111: Ventriloquist calls me out on bandwagoning while not giving a reason for my vote, which was in Random Voting Stage.
Can you see what's wrong here?

@Ventriloquist, I think you still don't get the concept of Random Voting Stage. We vote randomly at the start of the game so that we have something to start with. No need to give an explanation for a random vote, let alone it being bandwagoning. But besides this misconception of yours, your reads seem pretty decent.
Now, what do you want to get done with your vote on Etromin? Mind explaining us why that is your vote and if you want us to vote for Etromin as well, and why? In the end, we probably want to get someone lynched this day.

Your vote stood out to me not because it was random, but because it showed no engagement whilst simultaneously bandwagoning. A bare vote that did not seem to facilitate any kind of discussion. That being said, you've made up for that by now and I suppose making a bare vote was a discussion starter in itself (although I doubt this was your intention).

Etromin's response to my vote made sound enough sense, it was more of a prod than anything. Would you implore me to vote for Alciel then, on the basis that you find his posts to be awkward? I appreciate that it is easier for scum to hide when the votes are spread so thin.

Otherwise, after reading the thread the only contradiction I've picked up on that looked unanswered was Draynth not explaining their vote for Etromin (I appreciate it was probably a joke, but you refused to explain your vote regardless) but then a little while later on post 58 you then stated that Townies want to be as transparent whenever possible as it it makes you easier to read and work out what your motivations are. Would be good to see Draynth's response as I believe Ircher picked up on this too.

[Draynth]

Through to post 100

A Draynth wagon would be worthwhile imo. Not a lot of content and what I consider a somewhat suspicious leap onto my wagon. (Granted, the reasoning is somewhat valid, just not necessarily “fair”.
VOTE: Draynth

"A somewhat suspicious leap onto my wagon"
I was the first vote and you literally say the reasoning is valid

VOTE: Ircher
You don't buy vulcan having a strong townread on Crepppy for it, I don't buy you not getting that vulcan wasn't serious

I'll hop on the Ircher wagon. It's SUPER awkward to take me seriously there.

VOTE: Ircher

Voting someone for not getting a joke is... questionable? Do you think that when people are scum they suddenly lose their sense of humor or is there another angle you're pushing here?

It's because it feels like a forced scumread to me.

In my opinion

town are generally less likely to misinterpret what vulcan said. This is all purely based on my own experiences though.

VOTE: Vulcan
Actually, I really prefer this currently (in light of what I said earlier). Partially because the game state seems to have gotten a standstill plus my vote on Draynth wasn't really accomplishing anything.

I acknowledge that a lot of scum won't be willing to back down like this but it also feels like scum realising the pressure they're drawing as a result of a push (see post below)
Maybe I'm just searching for reasons to scumread ircher here

My townread of crepppy was a joke. Anyone taking it seriously strikes me as odd for doing so. Look at the reasoning I used.

I'll hop on the Ircher wagon. It's SUPER awkward to take me seriously there.

VOTE: Ircher

I don't like this. In the first post, vulcan logician is taking a temperature of the room to see if anyone else agrees with him. And once someone else votes Ircher first, only then does he vote and his analysis of Ircher goes from "odd" to "SUPER awkward."

A Draynth wagon would be worthwhile imo. Not a lot of content and what I consider a somewhat suspicious leap onto my wagon. (Granted, the reasoning is somewhat valid, just not necessarily “fair”.
VOTE: Draynth

Why did you choose to vote Draynth over vulcan logician?

[Draynth]

Through to post 100

A Draynth wagon would be worthwhile imo. Not a lot of content and what I consider a somewhat suspicious leap onto my wagon. (Granted, the reasoning is somewhat valid, just not necessarily “fair”.
VOTE: Draynth

"A somewhat suspicious leap onto my wagon"
I was the first vote and you literally say the reasoning is valid

VOTE: Ircher
You don't buy vulcan having a strong townread on Crepppy for it, I don't buy you not getting that vulcan wasn't serious

I'll hop on the Ircher wagon. It's SUPER awkward to take me seriously there.

VOTE: Ircher

Voting someone for not getting a joke is... questionable? Do you think that when people are scum they suddenly lose their sense of humor or is there another angle you're pushing here?

It's because it feels like a forced scumread to me.

In my opinion

town are generally less likely to misinterpret what vulcan said. This is all purely based on my own experiences though.

VOTE: Vulcan
Actually, I really prefer this currently (in light of what I said earlier). Partially because the game state seems to have gotten a standstill plus my vote on Draynth wasn't really accomplishing anything.

I acknowledge that a lot of scum won't be willing to back down like this but it also feels like scum realising the pressure they're drawing as a result of a push (see post below)
Maybe I'm just searching for reasons to scumread ircher here

My townread of crepppy was a joke. Anyone taking it seriously strikes me as odd for doing so. Look at the reasoning I used.

I'll hop on the Ircher wagon. It's SUPER awkward to take me seriously there.

VOTE: Ircher

I don't like this. In the first post, vulcan logician is taking a temperature of the room to see if anyone else agrees with him. And once someone else votes Ircher first, only then does he vote and his analysis of Ircher goes from "odd" to "SUPER awkward."

A Draynth wagon would be worthwhile imo. Not a lot of content and what I consider a somewhat suspicious leap onto my wagon. (Granted, the reasoning is somewhat valid, just not necessarily “fair”.
VOTE: Draynth

Why did you choose to vote Draynth over vulcan logician?

[Draynth]

Through to post 100

A Draynth wagon would be worthwhile imo. Not a lot of content and what I consider a somewhat suspicious leap onto my wagon. (Granted, the reasoning is somewhat valid, just not necessarily “fair”.
VOTE: Draynth

"A somewhat suspicious leap onto my wagon"
I was the first vote and you literally say the reasoning is valid

VOTE: Ircher
You don't buy vulcan having a strong townread on Crepppy for it, I don't buy you not getting that vulcan wasn't serious

I'll hop on the Ircher wagon. It's SUPER awkward to take me seriously there.

VOTE: Ircher

Voting someone for not getting a joke is... questionable? Do you think that when people are scum they suddenly lose their sense of humor or is there another angle you're pushing here?

It's because it feels like a forced scumread to me.

In my opinion

town are generally less likely to misinterpret what vulcan said. This is all purely based on my own experiences though.

VOTE: Vulcan
Actually, I really prefer this currently (in light of what I said earlier). Partially because the game state seems to have gotten a standstill plus my vote on Draynth wasn't really accomplishing anything.

I acknowledge that a lot of scum won't be willing to back down like this but it also feels like scum realising the pressure they're drawing as a result of a push (see post below)
Maybe I'm just searching for reasons to scumread ircher here

My townread of crepppy was a joke. Anyone taking it seriously strikes me as odd for doing so. Look at the reasoning I used.

I'll hop on the Ircher wagon. It's SUPER awkward to take me seriously there.

VOTE: Ircher

I don't like this. In the first post, vulcan logician is taking a temperature of the room to see if anyone else agrees with him. And once someone else votes Ircher first, only then does he vote and his analysis of Ircher goes from "odd" to "SUPER awkward."

A Draynth wagon would be worthwhile imo. Not a lot of content and what I consider a somewhat suspicious leap onto my wagon. (Granted, the reasoning is somewhat valid, just not necessarily “fair”.
VOTE: Draynth

Why did you choose to vote Draynth over vulcan logician?

[Draynth]

Why in the world did that post 3 times

[Harambey180]

I don't know.

Also how tf did I seriously not post the past 2 days

[ofrhz]

No, it wouldn’t be the same. A naked vote indicates some level of comfort with the vote because the person didn’t feel the need to defend it. But tacking on a “hello” indicates that the person didn’t feel comfortable naked voting yet felt like they had to say something, but couldn’t come up with anything less lighthearted than hello. It’s awk

So it would've been better to be brusque and just cast my vote?
Or should I have posted something more witty like the others who voted?

Yeah I think L-1 votes especially can be uncomfortable to drop because of how much scrutiny they can receive, and I think by saying hello, you were trying to mitigate that discomfort. It gutpinged me as scummy tbh. I do concede this is may be more personality indicative than scum indicative though

I mean, it really depends on the player. Some people (much to my annoyance) never give reasons and others do all the time. That said, I think it is preferable to give reasons so others can follow your thought process.

I wanted to know if I'd get the same response as he got when he didn't state anything but I don't want to sound like a wise ass.

So your RVS vote was a reaction test? If so, what did you get out of it?

[ofrhz]

Are you for real? Seriously, I didn't think that hard about it. It was RVS. As I said before, a wagon formed on page 1 is bound to dissolve. It's not even a good way to put pressure on scum because they

know

it's RVS.

townreading this for the defensiveness mixed with disbelief. Also the “didn’t think that hard about it” is kinda towny

[Draynth]

Are you for real? Seriously, I didn't think that hard about it. It was RVS. As I said before, a wagon formed on page 1 is bound to dissolve. It's not even a good way to put pressure on scum because they

know

it's RVS.

townreading this for the defensiveness mixed with disbelief. Also the “didn’t think that hard about it” is kinda towny

I agree with this, I think scum are very careful and will do their best to think hard about every post they make

[ofrhz]

Just making it official here: The page 1 obvtown read was a joke.

Here's somthing I don't get: why make the joke in the first place? It doesn't seem necessary and trying to crack non-obvious jokes on page 1 seems to be a bit of a stupid/risky thing to do.

is doing stupid/risky things alignment indicative?

[Ircher]

It could be alignment-indicative... Likely not so much in this case though; my vote on Vulcan is primarily based on the other factor, not that event.

[Etromin]

Just making it official here: The page 1 obvtown read was a joke.

Here's somthing I don't get: why make the joke in the first place? It doesn't seem necessary and trying to crack non-obvious jokes on page 1 seems to be a bit of a stupid/risky thing to do.

is doing stupid/risky things alignment indicative?

I don't think it's alignment-indicative, but it seems weird to not try and make the joking part completely clear, but I guess he tried.

[Huntress]

Alciel and vulcan logician have been prodded.

[vulcan logician]

Sorry I haven't posted guys... been busy. Let me catch up and I'll give you some reads.

[vulcan logician]

VOTE: Ircher
You don't buy vulcan having a strong townread on Crepppy for it, I don't buy you not getting that vulcan wasn't serious

I'll hop on the Ircher wagon. It's SUPER awkward to take me seriously there.

VOTE: Ircher

Voting someone for not getting a joke is... questionable? Do you think that when people are scum they suddenly lose their sense of humor or is there another angle you're pushing here?

It certainly is questionable to vote someone for not getting a joke... just as it is questionable to vote someone for making a joke. From my POV, it seemed like my joke was obvious. So I had two possibilities in mind.

1) Ircher didn't get the joke. It's as simple as that.
2) Ircher's mindset was such as to not be reading the thread with a mind perceptive to obvious jokes. Why? They possibly scum, who perceive all posts through a filter of anxiety--a mind in this state is less prone pick up on deadpan humor.

Is this a damning case? No. But it was something to go on. A vote in mafia is not a total commitment. Sometimes we use votes to apply pressure and gauge the reactions of those whom a wagon is formed against. At that point, Ircher seemed like a good player to scrutinize. Lacking a sense of humor is NAI, I agree. But it seemed like something to look into at that point.

[Ircher]

Do you consider the above to still be the case; i.e.: do you still scumread me based on the above or is your vote now for a different reason?

[Ventriloquist]

Upon rereading I am learning towards Vulcan and Draynth's logic on this one, seems like mafia would want to miscontrue information and this clearly was dry humour. Maybe an attempt to justify voting for someone else when the reasoning is pretty thin.

[Ircher]

Well, I honestly have nothing better atm, so my vote stays. But I do agree that this was more or less a misunderstanding.

[Harambey180]

Well, I honestly have nothing better atm, so my vote stays. But I do agree that this was more or less a misunderstanding.

The same for me.
Nothing really changed for me the last cpl of pages so my vote stays where it is rn and I don't really have much else to say... which'd explain my recent silence.
Lemme think of something to get it going again...

What would you say if someone asked you about the most important part of mafia?

[Draynth]

UNVOTE: Ircher
Reading back I think this is a bad vote. Will decide who I want to wagon after posting the below.

Right, this game is pretty stalled so I'm going to post a full readslist because I wanna get this ball rolling.

Spoiler: ofrhz (Town)

Feels like town ofrhz (Game is currently ongoing, I'll discuss it more when it's completed)
Long story short I like his line of questioning.

Spoiler: Nachomamma8 (Town lean)

He's an experienced player so what he's doing at the minute is probably to be expected, nonetheless it feels town to me. I like his thought process on vulcans read progression.

Spoiler: Etromin (Null)

Really just waiting on content.

@Etromin

- Who do you currently think is town / scum?
Have you played on a different site before?

Spoiler: Alciel (Null)

5 posts, nothing really to go off.

@Alciel

What are your reads currently (if any)?

Spoiler: vulcan logician (Scum lean)

After rereading I realised that idk what I was thinking when I voted Ircher. I think I must've read the thread at like 6am or something. It wasn't as big a deal as my first impression.

@Vulcan

Who do you currently scumread?

Spoiler: Harambey180 (Scum)

54 pings me super hard.
He reckons that scum are on the Ircher wagon, fair enough. I even accept his point about ircher being V/LA (Although i don't fully agree with it in the context of the game).
But, why wouldn't he vote someone on the ircher wagon then? Why try to counterwagon Alciel who has barely posted?
Feels like scum trying to defuse a wagon and divert to an easier lynch (ie. keep in mind if either ircher or harambey flip red)

@Harambey

Who do you think is town/scum?

Spoiler: Ventriloquist (Scum)

His readslist at 111 is the definition of remaining neutral.
142 Also just feels like an attempt to side with the situation "majority"

Spoiler: Ircher (Not sure)

I have this as different to Null because I'm still thinking.
Despite my initial reaction to his push on vulcan I'm now townreading him for it because I misinterpreted the interaction the first time around.
That being said his vote on me and then the quick switch to vulcan is weird.

VOTE: Ventriloquist
Happy with this for now.

[Nachomamma8]

I will try to get a full post out today.

[Harambey180]

The reason I didn't vote you, Draynth, is because none of the posts you made so far felt really scum for me besides not explaining your 'serious' RVS vote. At that point, I didn't think that voting you would get more out of you as you had already been reasonably active in the game. You were about a null read for me back then and if my vote was for pressuring, there were better people to vote.
vulcan felt very strange for me because of the things he had posted and has posted in the meantime. I'm guessing it's just because he's not that familiar with the game. His reasoning is just not what I'd expect from any kind of player.

I mainly voted Alciel because I expect everyone, town and scum don't get me wrong on this, to be active. Town to help each other and catch the scum, scum to play their part in making a mess of that all. I didn't necessarily read Alciel as scum, but that's also because he only made like one post up until then.
Just in general, on the first couple of pages, I'm more inclined to vote on those people that haven't been posting that much because the more people post, the more Town-players will get to know about others (I'm trying to say something slightly different but I don't know how to word it). I think that for the first few days in a game-day, activity is more important because if we started voting based on nothing but our scumreads, then that will probably mean that activity will be lower and then we have less to base our votes on when we're nearing the deadline. That's what I kinda want to avoid because that's what happened in my last game and I was the lynch there.

tl;dr: I voted Alciel instead of you or vulcan because I am convinced it is more important that everyone is active in the game when we're in the first half of the day, so that we can make better decisions on voting when we're nearing the deadline a.k.a. the second half of the day. Or in other words, I voted Alciel because he wasn't very active unlike the two of you, and I want him to be active as well and share his reads and his ideas and views on certain things. We don't need to make a decision on voting now anyways, we better try to get as much info as we can before we lynch someone. And how can we make that happen? Motivating everyone to be active. That's why I voted Alciel.

Readslist coming later today.

[ofrhz]

Well, I honestly have nothing better atm, so my vote stays. But I do agree that this was more or less a misunderstanding.

Are you still scumreading vulcan for his jump onto your wagon?

[ofrhz]

vulcan logician (Scum lean)

After rereading I realised that idk what I was thinking when I voted Ircher. I think I must've read the thread at like 6am or something. It wasn't as big a deal as my first impression.

@Vulcan

Who do you currently scumread?

How does this add up to a scumlean on vulcan?