Open 724 - Pick Your Power X/Y [Endgame]

[Eddie Cane]

jack be numble

[the worst]

juck be quack

[SaskeIsMyYaoiKismesis]

I'm going to do a tryhard post later.

Can everyone please post their confident reads in either direction? I dont need explanations

ヽ(〃･ω･)ﾉ TOWN ヾ(･ω･｡)ｼ
Ahiru-tan
Eddie-kun
Math-sensei
Taly
Ausuka-chan

( ≧Д≦) SCUM (≧Д≦ )
Lovebird
Ircher
davesaz

[SaskeIsMyYaoiKismesis]

juck JUMP jover the JANDLESTICK (ﾉ^ヮ^)ﾉ*:・ﾟ✧

[Ircher]

1. In 1144:

I haven't seen you try to combat your wagon that much, do you find validity in the reasons against you? And even so, where's your focus at the moment? There's not a lot of responses from you to the Janitor or the wagon on him from what I'm reading.

As far as my wagon goes, yes, I do find some validity in the reasons presented, esp. SIMYK's case. Furthermore, is there a point to me fighting my wagon? No, I do not believe so. I haven't said much toward Janitor because honestly, there hasn't been much that caught me eye since his first few posts. As to the wagon, it hardly exists atm.

Could you explain your read progression here, and where you're at with Janitor now?

Main thing is that I was not fond of their entrance, which I'm still placing some heavy weight upon; however, I feel that their more recent posts have been better, and I may have misjudged them in the beginning. That said, I still feel more confident in scum!Janitor versus town!Janitor atm, and one of those reasons is reads PoE (i.e.: my reads gives a lynchpool that suggest that Janitor has a good chance of being scum).

Where's your thinking with Ausuka and Lovebird right now? They haven't been present in the past few pages, yet I really like Ausuka going into depth about her thought process and I'm considering the Lovebird wagon at the moment because I feel like they've been lacking behind their insights and they're motives have been unclear despite the many pages of content so far in this game.

I leaning towards town!Ausuka for a few reasons such as their progression of their read on me; however, I am being careful not to be tricked by Ausuka here; I'm not sure I'm super-acquainted with their scum meta. For Lovebird, I lean scum primarily because of activity reasons; modulo that, and they are basically null for me. I will defer (eventually) to someone who I can 1) trust is town and 2) trust that their reads are good for my ultimate read on them.

Janitor's definitely posted more than Lalendra from what I've read; how do you feel about Lalendra's wagon progression and how it's been going up and down in favor?

I'm not sure--I have not looked into it that much.

2. In 1154:

How can you be caught up but not have reads/opinions? This post is the weakes excuse ever to sheep somewhere and appear active.

FOS davesav

(In response to davesaz's 1152.)

I think this is a good point that Iconeum raises.

3. In 1157:

I began pushing Lovebird when the vibes started vibing. It's a much better scumread then Lalendra.

I think the more important issue is consolidating. As of right now, the thread is strongly divided over 4 potential lynches: myself, The Janitor, Lovebird, and Lalendra.

4. In 1164:

I finially caught up and I think I've got some basic townreads here?

I think The Worst, Math and A50/dave are all town, and I town lean Saske and Eddie. They've all made good contributions to the game.

This is all you have?

5. In 1167:

I'll certainly vote Lalen with you!

VOTE: Lalendra

And to Icon, it's mostly A50's contributions that make me town read that slot. Although I do know dave has a tendency to be a bit lynchbaity.

Okay, so the general concensus seems to be that Lalendra is a more worthwhile lynch than Lovebird. In other words, if you are voting Lovebird right now, either a) provide a compelling case as to why Lovebird is the better lynch (and yes, it

must

be a case with references to actual posts) or b) Join the Lalendra train.
(You could also join the Ircher wagon (not recommended) or the Janitor wagon too if you really think Lalendra is town or feel very strongly about Janitor or me being scum, but barring that, joining the Lalendra wagon is prob. the best move for you to make.)

6. In 1179:

Or having a cop check me and lynching you Day 1?v How does this argument make sense?

That post wasn't directed at you, so I'm not sure what your point here is?

7. In 1183:

Neighborizer, because scum neighborizers are laughably good and function as rolecops anyway.

(Any links?)

Also, how do they function as rolecops?

The way I see it is that a scum neighborizer has to put in more work because they have to pay attention to the neighborhood thread as well as the game thread. Still, you have more experience with this setup, so.......

8. In 1185:

2) I also addressed this, but since more has happened, I'll say this: I'm not understanding ducky's tunneling on me, most of the other votes were because of lack of activity (NAI) and tone (my tone is inconsistent af, it depends entirely on my mood and not at all on my alignment). It's horseshit.

I think that might be somewhat an oversimplification, as in there is more to it than just that. But that probably is a semi-reasonable interpretation of the wagon. Thing is, none of us really have too much better in terms of reads and wagons.

I wasn't saying that neutral and null meant the same thing in your readslist, I understand that they don't. I'm saying I don't understand the need to separate them. In that it seems nitpicky. Essentially yes, I understand the system you're using, I just don't agree with it. We're saying the same thing.

I don't believe this when your post reads like this:

...You literally posted an entire wall (much of which was "fair enough, null") and then two posts later everyone is either null or neutral (not sure I understand the need to separate those) except you (shocking) and one person whose "posts continue to not really be good". That's it?

As a reminder, my response to this was:

First of all, you do realize that the "notes" and the reads go hand-in-hand?
Second of all, did you try reading the second spoiler about how to read the reads list? You would know I separate Neutral and Null and while you may not agree with how I separate them, you should treat my neutral reads as more/less serious reads. (In other words, saying everyone is either null or neutral is a meaningless statement as the neutral reads aren't really a "no read" or even a "very weak read" thing; it just has to do with the level of confidence. Again, you don't have to agree with the system, but please try to acknowledge it.)

So, no, I don't think we're stating the same thing there. And yes, there is a good reason to separate them: a null read indicates generally no read or a very conflicted read; a neutral read is a mixed read, but it is not a conflicted read; there is generally a clear leaning toward town or scum in a neutral read, just not a very confident one.

9. In 1192:

Tbh I town lean Ircher atp. I so so badly want to lynch him on principle but unfortunately I'm too competitive for that

So your vote earlier was policy? Okay....................

Okay, the Lalendra and Lovebird wagons need to consolidate into one wagon... I don't care if it is Lalendra or Lovebird that much, but I think I prefer the Lalendra wagon better tbh.

...why?

I'm sure I've explained this at least once and probably multiple times, and I don't really feel bothered to explain this again.

10. In 1195:

How is this a question when the answer is damn obvious?

Perhaps because it wasn't obvious? Like, it may seem obvious

out of context

; however,

in context

, it isn't really that obvious.

11. In 1197:

Why do you feel like your vote NEEDS to be the hammer?

I mean, you'll give him time to claim right?

(He probably wouldn't let me claim if I don't claim before L-1.)

12. In 1201:

I'm working to engage with people more but I feel like I've been told: "your answer is somewhere in these 50 pages. good luck." and I feel unconvinced when I read through the thread, because it's NOT someone talking their read out with me.

I'm not trying to lecture the thread or single ANYONE out; but that's how I feel my interactions have been in this game to some point.

I mean, I've occassionally told you to find stuff yourself because I didn't repeat myself, but it should have been clear that said information was in my ISO, which should significantly decrease the difficulty in finding something I said.

SIMYK obliged, and I think she brought up points that are noteworthy, and so I want Ircher to respond to my prompts toward him.

I'm not sure I follow here? Which prompts have I missed that you addressed to me?

13. In 1206:

And yeah, the self-meta in my sig is something that would help me as scum. But since I never roll scum (which sucks because I love it) it's mostly just there to say "anything you're thinking about me based on my tone, interactions, reads, or anything else is less likely because I'm scum and more likely because you don't like my playstyle."

It is possible that is true... But, I don't think I necessarily see anything about your playstyle that having meta experience with you would help understand. I mean, I get it in a way: your wagon basically began as "You aren't really contributing anything" and "You are lurking" and part of that was due to being V/LA on the weekend. I stuck with my read on you simply because I had nothing better to go by, and the only other real option I was considering voting was The Janitor; however, I have stated multiple times why I did not want to vote The Janitor as well as some about why I liked voting you. Then your contributions yesterday... Maybe it is a bias, as a good portion of your post(s) did focus on me, but I didn't feel like they provided a fair viewpoint of my posts. Obviously, my posts are not the quintessence of town; however, I still felt that your perspective on them was quite flawed. Note that has nothing to do with a tone read. Anyway, I don't have meta with you, so I don't know really how you are in games, but the general vibe is that people don't really scumread you for your playstyle alone; they do so for other reasons as well.

14. In 1210:

she benefits from it more often when she's town lol
i wouldn't call her scumgame especially top tier

okay FIRST OF ALL
you played one game with me as scum and you broke the goddamn setup within HOURS, thereby demotivating and demoralizing the entire scumteam and I had to do everything ALL BY MYSELF
so
this is hurtful

So the message of your post here is that you're better at scum than math thinks?

It wasn't a super serious post.

Okay, maybe I do see a potential issue with your playstyle; your word choice generally suggests an aggressive or highly confident tone. Yet, then you make statements like these which seem to conflict completely with the tone implicit in the majority of your posts. Like here: if it wasn't super serious, why does it have a harsh tone to it? (I mean, it is harder to read tone when the medium is text; however, word choice matters.)

15. In 1219:

worst is janitor or lovebird a better lynch

(Not addressed to me, but...) I personally think at this point that Lalendra is a better lynch compared to Lovebird.

16. In 1231:

Lovebird's CONVICTION on Ausuka-chan feels DISINGENUOUS to me, her CHARACTERIZATION of her vote as skiddish and SHY did NOT make a lot of sense to me o(≧∇≦o)

Something worth noting.

17. In 1235:

that's what I got from her posts

I was under the impression they were caught up as of yesterday... I guess we'll have to verify with Lalendra explicitly, but they definitely aren't super far behind.

18. In 1245:

Can everyone please post their confident reads in either direction? I dont need explanations

Town - SIMYK, The Worst, Taly
Scum - No one really; I guess Lalendra and the Janitor qualify but neither are super confident reads

[mutantdevle]

Perhaps because it wasn't obvious? Like, it may seem obvious out of context; however, in context, it isn't really that obvious.

How does a lack of context make it any less obvious?

Besides, what context exactly am I missing?


You self-voted. That's scummy. A naked vote soon after that clearly implies it was in light of your own self vote.

[the worst]

Ircher--take on Ausuka?

[Ircher]

Perhaps because it wasn't obvious? Like, it may seem obvious out of context; however, in context, it isn't really that obvious.

How does a lack of context make it any less obvious?

Besides, what context exactly am I missing?


You self-voted. That's scummy. A naked vote soon after that clearly implies it was in light of your own self vote.

1) Self-voting is by far not scummy. Do you scumread A50 for self-voting earlier?
2) His vote came AFTER I clarified that the self-vote was more or less a parody of something Ausuka stated. Thus, the connection isn't as obvious as you make it to be.

[Ircher]

Ircher--take on Ausuka?

Really hard to say. Like, I feel like the stuff they have stated so far has been mostly town-sided, but there really isn't enough to confidently say "Town". There is also the fact that they aren't participating in the thread a whole lot because "they will be vigged anyway, so their reads don't matter.".

[Ircher]

V/LA tommorrow; be back Friday.

[mutantdevle]

Perhaps because it wasn't obvious? Like, it may seem obvious out of context; however, in context, it isn't really that obvious.

How does a lack of context make it any less obvious?

Besides, what context exactly am I missing?


You self-voted. That's scummy. A naked vote soon after that clearly implies it was in light of your own self vote.

1) Self-voting is by far not scummy. Do you scumread A50 for self-voting earlier?
2) His vote came AFTER I clarified that the self-vote was more or less a parody of something Ausuka stated. Thus, the connection isn't as obvious as you make it to be.

1) No, because I town read A50 for other reasons and have seen him self-hammer as town before which almost cost town the game who only won through a coin flip involving WIFOM. Self-voting is most definitely scummy. Do you honestly believe a townie self-voting achieves anything that is good for town?
2) Your parody was unclear at best but even then does not excuse the action of self-voting.

[Ircher]

1) Now you are simply applying a double standard. A self vote is useful at times, athough frequenty, it is simply used as an AtE. Mine was clearly not. Also, I believe the burden of proof is on you to show me

multiple instances

where self-voting is scummy. The burden is not on me to give a reason that self-voting is townie--I never said it was; more often than not, it is null. If there is anything self-voting achieves, it generally gets people to question and second-guess their reads.
2) You cannot call something unclear when I immediately clarify it and call it such and reference the post being parodied. This all happened before Eddie Cane voted me. Also, if you understand this idea, you would understand that the primary reason of the self-vote was for fun purposes, and as much as you will probably call that scummy, having fun is honestly null.

[Ircher]

Since I'm not part of the townbloc, my opinion doesn't matter. Thus, I should just VOTE: Ircher and let the townbloc coordinate a town win.

That was L-2, and it was an obvious parody of one of Ausuka's earlier posts.

have you even been reading my posts

i'm getting vigged anyway and once I get vigged nobody will care about my reads so i'm not inclined to spend a lot of time and effort detailing them

What about this reads as unclear?

[Ircher]

2) You cannot call something unclear when I immediately clarify it and call it such and reference the post being parodied. This all happened before Eddie Cane voted me. Also, if you understand this idea, you would understand that the primary reason of the self-vote was for fun purposes, and as much as you will probably call that scummy, having fun is honestly null.

Actually, I retract this.

[Ircher]

But there still lies the issue that they did not immediately change votes, so......... still not the clearest reasons.

[Ircher]

I'm seriously ready for this day to end....

[Ircher]

So, who would like to offer themselves up as tribute?

[Lalendra]

The fact she is actively trying to play a nullgame has me really wound up

How am I doing that? I'm not even sure what this means tbh

[Ircher]

Lalendra, do you offer yourself up as tribute?

[Lalendra]

And yes, there is a good reason to separate them: a null read indicates generally no read or a very conflicted read; a neutral read is a mixed read, but it is not a conflicted read; there is generally a clear leaning toward town or scum in a neutral read, just not a very confident one.

Ok, that seems to be the issue here then. You say "neutral" when I would say "town/scum lean." This makes more sense now.

[Ircher]

Lalendra, do you offer yourself up as tribute?

[Lalendra]

if it wasn't super serious, why does it have a harsh tone to it?

Because my humor is very sarcastic and when I say something harsh, 98% of the time it's in jest.

[Ircher]

But then people cannot read you...

[the worst]

Lalendra, do you offer yourself up as tribute?

[Lalendra]

Lalendra, do you offer yourself up as tribute?

Nope