Open 724 - Pick Your Power X/Y [Endgame]

[Lalendra]

Lalendra, do you offer yourself up as tribute?

Nope

[Lalendra]

Lalendra, do you offer yourself up as tribute?

Still nope

[the worst]

Do something useful?

[yessiree]

VC 1.17

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch

Lalendra (5) -

Taly, Ircher, Myloninja13, Ausuka, the worst

Lovebird (3) -

Iconeum, Eddie Cane, SaskeIsMyYaoiKismesis

Ircher (2) -

mutantdevle, Lalendra

The Janitor (2) -

Mathdino, davesaz

Taly (1) -

Lovebird

Not voting

- The Janitor

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2018-05-15 20:00:00)

[davesaz]

Lalendra;

1)

What makes you comfortable with the

Ircher

vote?

1) I already outlined all my reasons in my catch-up posts.

Would you care to quote yourself and hilight those reasons?
When I read your catch-up posts, I don't see you saying much about Ircher at all.

[Eddie Cane]

answer my question please lovebird and dave

[davesaz]

@Eddie -- the reads question? That's easy enough to find but I don't mind restating.

Town reads on Ircher and Taly.
Weak town lean on Beefster.
Wanna look closely at people on Ircher wagon.
The Janitor possible scum.

Long name with lots of complicated ascii art and random words in CAPS looks town.

[Mathdino]

remember to count me on the ircher wagon when you scumread everyone on it

[davesaz]

Wanna explain that read while you're here?

[mutantdevle]

1) Now you are simply applying a double standard. A self vote is useful at times, athough frequenty, it is simply used as an AtE. Mine was clearly not. Also, I believe the burden of proof is on you to show me multiple instances where self-voting is scummy. The burden is not on me to give a reason that self-voting is townie--I never said it was; more often than not, it is null. If there is anything self-voting achieves, it generally gets people to question and second-guess their reads.

I'm not applying a double standard. A50's actions are and were still shitty and we've acknowledged as such. But I'm obviously not going to base a read alone on such action.

When is a self-vote ever useful to town? Please explain how you think a townie voting for themselves helps town win the game.

2 examples of self-voting being bad have already been given in this game. A50 self-hammering previously almost lost town the game and Beefster voting for themselves in Mylo directly lost town the game. I'm sure I could find plenty of examples where self-voting has been a shitty thing to do if I was to scan the forum for it. I, however, choose not to waste my time doing that as I don't see how proving this 1 point to you advances this game. On the other hand, I highly doubt anyone at all could provide a single example of a townie self-voting which helped them to win the game.

Instead, I'd like to refer you to this: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Self-voting

Having read that, I hope you understand why many players will policy lynch players who self-vote. Math is currently very willing to policy lynch you. I'm sure Eddie's vote was a policy vote as well rather than because he thinks you are scum. The moral of the story is you shouldn't ever self-vote as town because it provides no tactical advantages. I don't care if you claim you did it out of a bit of fun, there was a serious wagon on you and all would have taken was 2 people to quickly come in and lynch you. Besides, we can't know for certain that was your motive - and I think most of us don't care anyway. Don't self-vote if you're town.

[mutantdevle]

I highly disagree with lynching Lalandra in the current state btw. If y'all ever want me to join that wagon, you gotta

really

convince me they are scum.

[the worst]

Passive aggressively referring people to Wiki pages
Mutant I think youre my new favourite person

[mutantdevle]

Thanks ducky <3

[Mathdino]

tfw i wrote that entire page

[Lalendra]

Lalendra;

1)

What makes you comfortable with the

Ircher

vote?

1) I already outlined all my reasons in my catch-up posts.

Would you care to quote yourself and hilight those reasons?
When I read your catch-up posts, I don't see you saying much about Ircher at all.

Here you go.

That’s super irrelevant; when did you think I thought MathDino was MathBlade?

VOTE: Ircher

You've been tingling my scum sensors ever since your second post but I decided not to vote you because I wanted to see where the janitor wagon would go.

This post bothers me because it reacts to brass' comment as though it was supposed to be game solving. Furthermore, the question here is phrased in a way that tries to appear like its game solving itself. Honestly, this just feels like scum trying to look busy.

Add that to how Ircher seems intent on shutting down any form of setup spec and seems to focus too much on other people's reads (in my opinion) and judge them based on that. That makes me comfortable with this vote.

I am inclined to agree with everything Mutant says here but holding off on voting til I finish catching up.

I can read Ircher well and I think this is his scumgame. The way I read Ircher is simple; he has an unique personality as town, which he doesn't really emulate as scum; additionally, as town he is generally a good player who makes sense and has good reads but can do odd things; as scum, he is often quite nickpicky and flat. I think this game shows the latter. (Although now that I've said this I probably can't use it in future games with him... oh well)

VOTE: Ircher

This is really helpful and definitely reinforces my Ircher scumlean.

Holy shit <post>429</post> sucks to read.

...You literally posted an entire wall (much of which was "fair enough, null") and then two posts later everyone is either null or neutral (not sure I understand the need to separate those) except you (shocking) and one person whose "posts continue to not really be good". That's it?

tl;dr of ircher's reads list: i am going to summarise why 80% of the posts in this game are null and then give a reads list in which 80% of the players are null

Aaaaaand Math beats me to it, as usual.

Setup spec is not intrinsicly scummy; however, doing it exclusively IS for multiple reasons

I am still not seeing why people are accusing Math of doing ONLY setup spec. Like, in the first couple of pages, sure. Things have changed a lot since then. And in contrast with Mutant, I actually do think this is town!Math.

pedit: wait I did NOT notice that ircher was voting Lalendra ｢(ﾟﾍﾟ)

That's cuz the mod made a mistake... Is there an issue with that?

Weirdly defensive

I still currently prefer Lalendra despite having a greater scumread on The Janitor, primarily because again, they have been wagoned basically the entire game, and the Janitor wagon had no real counter at its peak.

Weird, the only other person in danger of being lynched today, besides me, prefers that I be the one to be lynched. CRAZY

[Lalendra]

Current readslist, since multiple people have asked:

Town:
Mathdino - His play is a little different than what I am used to here, but I think it's largely due to him not being super confident on who's scum. Usually he picks someone and runs them over like a truck, and while he's not doing that here, it still strikes me as town!Math.
Mutantdevle - Feeling pretty confident in town!Mutant here, largely because I agree with his reasoning and like the way he is presenting his thoughts. Seems like he's actively trying to gamesolve.
Simyk - I don't have any meta experience with Simyk, but they seem invested in gamesolving, are trying to advance the gamestate, and their tone is very towny.

Townlean:
davesaz - I wasn't sure how I felt about A50 but davesaz has moved this slot from null to townlean for me. Not as confident as I am with the townbloc above, but good vibes.
Eddie Cane - Again, not confident enough to say town for certain, but good vibes.
Myloninja13 - There really hasn't been enough from this slot to say for certain, but I'm feeling town.
Iconeum - I like what I've seen from them but need to see more active participation.
Taly - This seems like town!Taly from my meta experience.

Null:
the worst - Honestly not sure about this slot, I want to say town but feel like I can't make an unbiased opinion. Their tunneling of me could be town-motivated but I'm not crazy about the reasoning behind it; then again, I could just be mad they're tunneling me. I can't be impartial enough to figure it out yet.
The Janitor - I don't hate their posting but I'm having trouble determining whether it's a playstyle thing or actual scumminess.
Lovebird - I can't make sense of this slot either way.

Scumlean:
Ausuka - Nothing I've seen from Ausuka has struck me as particularly towny, especially the waffling/soft defense of Ircher and the defensiveness in their tone.

Scum:
Ircher - For the reasons I outlined in my last few posts.

[yessiree]

Lovebird has been prodded.

[Eddie Cane]

Still need answers from: Lovebird, Mathdino, Saske, Ausuka, Myloninja, Janitor, Iconeum, Taly, Ircher

from memory

[Eddie Cane]

Still need answers from: Lovebird, Mathdino, Ausuka, Myloninja, Janitor, Iconeum, Taly, from memory

Never mind, have Saske and Ircher.

[Eddie Cane]

(Not addressed to me, but...) I personally think at this point that Lalendra is a better lynch compared to Lovebird.:

Fair enough but so does The Worst, the point of the question was basically implying those are who I'm considering lynching which do you think is better. I'll need to properly look at Lalendra's recent when I am not on a 15 minute recess.

[davesaz]

@lalendra, you quoted but didn't hilight places you state

your

reasons. This didn't add any information. Maybe bold/underline, or trim the post down to the point you're trying to make?

[Lalendra]

I'm sorry, I just really don't have the energy right now to go through and highlight things. If I say "I agree with everything this person said," then what that person said are my reasons in that post. I don't really know what else you want.

I'm not trying to be grumpy I just really don't feel well so maybe I'll just come back to the thread when I'm in a better spot.

[Lalendra]

I'm also getting frustrated at this point because people are pushing my lynch without good reasons (in my opinion) and not being satisfied with anything I say, so I don't see the point in engaging.

[Ausuka]

I think ircher, simyk, math, tw, dave, taly, and maybe eddie are town.
I think lalendra and lovebird are scum.

[Eddie Cane]

lalendra, do you think theres any major differences in your alignments?