Newbie 1863: Rugby - Game Over

[Irrelephant11]

@meji you haven't elaborated on your scummy-Nauci/brass read since D1. Would you please do so now?

@everyone Another reason I'm scumreading teacher right now, btw, is his willingness to vote for three different people - whatever gets a majority. He has stated that he would vote brass, who he thinks is less scummy than both me and flicker (and from what I understand, me/oxy is his most likely scumteam), if it'll be a consensus lynch. This does not come across to me like a town player trying to find the right place to aim before shooting (see: oxy, meji), but rather someone who is happy to take a shot at anything that isn't him. In MYLO, that is scummy play imo.

[brassherald]

I think the team is either Flicker/Teacher or Flicker/Meji at this point. I just don't see the interactions elephant is having being with scum partners at all, especially with Flicker, who's probably the optimal lynch.

That being said, I'm wary about when teacher pulled back the vote as soon as Oxy voted. I've been considering a bit of whether that is a scum-partner reaction. I'm still not sure.

[Oxy]

@Oxy: In what world is your gambit better than sleeping? In other words, why did you choose this?

@teacher because this is pretty much where I am at right now, mate ;P

I think the team is either Flicker/Teacher or Flicker/Meji at this point.

[Oxy]

I've still got like a 2% paranoia about {meji, teacher} but I'm thinking flicker is a fine lynch

[Irrelephant11]

Maybe I'm too trusting of a person, but I'm still inclined to believe teacher's tracker claim.

@Flicker, this is all you have said about teacher's night result. Most players then spent like two pages discussing it and its ramifications. Do you have any response to that discussion?

[Irrelephant11]

@brass and Oxy, re:Meji/Flicker team - why doesn't the D2 run-up on meji disqualify this? Flicker was a part of that vote.

[teacher]

OK. Thanks. Here is my play which I am making in full realization that it could result in a game ending mislynch of me.

VOTE: Brass

Im back to basically the start of my day, suspecting a Brass-Oxy team, though I think Brass-Meji, Brass-Flicker are possibilities.

Let me start just on Brass. First, he comes into the game very active, including by throwing new shade at Elephant. I think his early analysis is wrong (on Nauci, as explained in real time) and on me (in a way that feels staged for an SE, as explained below). Thus, his reads post allows him to put suspicion on EVERY SLOT BUT HIS PARTNER for purposes of encouraging a mislynch, while allowing him and Oxy to have a distancing act over the tracker claim. That cannot have been real, given the amount Brass had to have read to get the first readslist on Elephant, and Flicker -- he had to have known it, but the act nonetheless came.

Second, Brass then reverts to his slot's previous lurking. I went to his profile and noted pages and pages of posts from Friday on in other games - many of which have ended, and which he has already discussed -- while only prodging here (including this morning). Yes, he here and elsewhere says he needs a mafia break. But I think he has a sense of duty to play the games he is in, as shown by his entry here, and thus view the lurking as a choice - consistent with his wincon.

Let me move onto Oxy. Here, I find the timing of his gambit interesting. He comes up with just hours after Flicker raises Brass and I say Im down. I view the gambit, and risk of loss, as inconsistent with town!oxy's former openness to sleep, but as stunningly consistent with the new risk to his team given Meji's tunnel and the possibility Elephant could join. I noted that I suspected Oxy, and this team, at the start of the day due to Thor's pointer and the night tunnel.

Which brings me to the one problem with it - DDS-Nauci. Im off this. First, I trust in our great god Thor, who thought Nauci-Oxy was a possiblity, indeed the first one he mentioned when asking to pick Oxy's partners. I dont think he would have missed this. Second, it is possible to see the replace as being very consistent with scum wincon AND the rules - not for the staged theatrics of it, but for the legitimate personality disagreement. Scum do have to work together in this game, and if DDS legitimately disliked Nauci's personality, he could well have sought replacement because he thought that dislike weakened scumteam without realizing the theatrics.

This team does not have the coordination problems that elephant-oxy had. It has no problems other than DDS-Nauci, which I think are overblown.

Im trusting Meji and Elephant with this move. Meji I town. I know that you suspect me however, I know Im going to catch at least two votes from this if not three others. I am hoping you continue your tunnel so that the worst outcome from this is sleep. Sleep is better for a town than a mislynch.

Elephant - do with this what you will. Im pretty sure Ive caught scum. Im not locked on Oxy (it could be Flicker or Meji, or to be honest you -- this is part of why Im so hard on Brass, the remaining flexibility in his slot). If you have questions, ask them. If you agree, run him up. If you disagree - do what you will, and I hope Meji lets us sleep and ,get the information from the night.

[Oxy]

@brass and Oxy, re:Meji/Flicker team - why doesn't the D2 run-up on meji disqualify this? Flicker was a part of that vote.

I don't think busing is impossible

that said, I reread that vote sequence on meji:

>teacher puts the second vote on meji
>flicker puts meji to L-2
>oxy puts meji to L-1
>teacher unvotes and claims tracker

teacher here is protecting his partner meji? - When I said that I'm pretty much with brass on meji/flicker or teacher/flicker, the part where I'm not with him is that I think meji + teacher is a possibility

That's what is making this so hard. All three of them are projecting scum. If I could find one town, gg

[teacher]

By the way, at this point, Im only lynching Brass. All other roads lead to sleep for me.

[teacher]

I hardtown Meji (why I backed the thor lynch and stayed with it).
Just from playstyle, I think Flicker is newish town who could not come up with some of the zany antics scum have used in this game -- the questions about process, the unvote D1 without helping another wagon along, etc.
Elephant remains in my PoE pool, but like Ive said many times, there is nothing at all in his ISO that makes me scumread him.
Oxy - cheerleads mislynches and never really explains his Thor vote if he disagreed with the associative case. In addition, look at the start of D3. He listed what he viewed as all possible tracker outcomes (including NK!). So why won't he concede that scum!me never comes up with the JK claim? Because hes mislynch hunting.
Brass - scum in all worlds.

[Oxy]

same thing with meji on teacher btw

>meji gives reason to scum read teacher
>oxy fleshes out that reasoning
>elephant and brass look like they could be willing to accept a teacher lynch
>meji retracts their reasoning to scum read teacher, but continues to keep him in their lynch pool

[brassherald]

teacher, if you actually looked at my posts from Friday, you'd almost definitely see me lurking and doing very low content posts in games that finished or withdrawing from games shortly thereafter.

Most of my Friday posts are in now public dead threads! That's different from posting in games, I'm chewing the fat with other people.

I finished a two month game in the Theme Park because it was 2 months long and I just wanted to end it. I posted a whole bunch in a game I modded. Both post game.

Game posts are very different from post game posts, and I'm doing all I can to not just replace out because this is literally the only fucking game standing in the way of me taking a break that I need. If you really want to look at my posts, actually look at how many were in games that were not ended, that needed actual reading to do.

[brassherald]

Also, good job tipping everyone off to not actually bothering to read Open 721, teacher. Talk about bullheaded refusal to improve your reads.

[Irrelephant11]

@teacher: Well, no.


At this point teacher seems to be arguing from wilfull ignorance?

in a world where DDS/Nauci are spiteful scum, they have a

separate thread

to swear at each other without making things uncomfortable for the rest of us.

teacher is scumming oxy for voting flicker after interest in a brass lynch was expressed --> teacher is voting brass after interest in a flicker lynch was expressed

Thor also said to never follow you, so

Also, talk about keeping "team possibilities alive so [multiple] slots can still vote a mislynch." ~teacher, 922

[teacher]

@Brass--I too am a lawyer with a big filing due tomorrow, and a mothers day video to create, so Im going to be brief. Since we share a profession (currently; Im leaving it), you'll get this humor:

Compare, e.g.[,i]

teacher is the un-CCed tracker claim, I will not even consider lynching an Un-CCed PR claim when we know we have to have either a Tracker or a Doctor out there, based on there being a Jailkeeper.

with, e.g.

,

teacher is the un-CCed tracker claim, I will not even consider lynching an Un-CCed PR claim when we know we have to have either a Tracker or a Doctor out there, based on there being a Jailkeeper.

Is it really credible for an SE in general -- let alone with this game-specific recollection -- to forget that tracker is a potential fakeclaim?

My bottom line: Sleep is better than a mislynch. Im hoping I get a red flip here, especially one that conf!towns me, but am fine if it doesnt go through. Its a safer play than Oxy's gambitz if he is town. I view this as the best play left for town. So Im making it.

[teacher]

@#$@#$#@ coding..... and copying ... EBWOP:

@Brass--I too am a lawyer with a big filing due tomorrow, and a mothers day video to create, so Im going to be brief. Since we share a profession (currently; Im leaving it), you'll get this humor:

Compare, e.g.

.

teacher is the un-CCed tracker claim, I will not even consider lynching an Un-CCed PR claim when we know we have to have either a Tracker or a Doctor out there, based on there being a Jailkeeper.

with, e.g.

,

I've seen an early tracker fake claim in this setup as well when it was a relatively new setup by Wilky, which lead to him winning, so it's not unheard of for a tracker fake claim by scum.

Is it really credible for an SE in general -- let alone with this game-specific recollection -- to forget that tracker is a potential fakeclaim?

My bottom line: Sleep is better than a mislynch. Im hoping I get a red flip here, especially one that conf!towns me, but am fine if it doesnt go through. Its a safer play than Oxy's gambitz if he is town. I view this as the best play left for town. So Im making it.[/quote]

[Flicker]

Quick post from my phone, I'll get to everything else tomorrow.

I aso find it very convenient that Flicker has as her lynchpool the three people who have mostly said she is likely scum. It's a cop out defense. "If someone is scum reading me, they are probably scum" and she went through and found reasons afterwards. It's suspicious to me.

Pretty sure everyone but Meji suspects me at this point, so this is a meaningless observation.

[brassherald]

Oh, hey, guys, I need to have perfect memory for teacher to town read me! God forbid I have a lapse in memory.

I mean, he caught me, there is no time when I can forget something, then remember that same fact at a normal time. Fun fact: I couldn't remember where my car keys were the other day, so now my car is useless, because how is it credible for a human to forget something, then remember it at a later time?

teacher has uncovered my secret that I'm not a robot.

[teacher]

Oh, look, now youre not lurking......

[teacher]

Posts from Brass with content:

• 24 hours from entry: 13
  
• Saturday thru Wednesday: 5 (3 with content
  
• Today:5
  
  Amazing!

[teacher]

umming oxy for voting flicker after interest in a brass lynch was expressed --> teacher is voting brass after interest in a flicker lynch was expressed

Elephant, whether its today or tomorrow, the choice is likely going to be yours. Meji wont be left alive except for the pure WIFOMING of it.

Id like to write up a longer, linkier case now, but I truly dont have the time. I simply urge you to do what I tried, and get out of your confirmation bias. Start at the beginning, and see what makes sense.

IT was that reread that gave me a real view of Flicker's personality, and has basically conf!towned her for me. Maybe you'll get the same newb flavor, maybe you wont. Certainly you had it D1. You thought Her D2 sucked, but maybe she simply was busy, bought the Meji/Thor cases, and went with the flow. I see the same personality from her throughout, and agreed with your D1 townlean.

I think your scumcase on me is built primarily on the JK claim + the Thor lynch. Look at Oxy's start of day opening - he didnt think I could be JK. You dont think I could be JK. Heck, I didnt think I could be JK during the night. How do you think I make up a JK claim on the spot, when it is not a possibility given NK's words. Scum!me never thinks of this possibility. Only Tracker!me does, when I get a zero result PM.

As for the Thor lynch, if that is questionable, why isnt Oxy equally convict? He killed the math case. He rejected the associational case (both D2 and D3). But he went along with it.

Seriously man. I expect you to be given the key to the game. Please use it wisely.

[Oxy]

VOTE: teacher
i still prefer this to flicker, actually

[teacher]

By the way, given my read on likely team, it would likely would have been fine for scum!me to go along with the Oxy gambit,

at least for the first 24 hours

. The lynch would likely not have gone through due to Oxy's explicit instructions for town not to join. Because I think Oxy's scum, no lynch would have occurred.

The reason I didnt play through Oxy's gambit after my reflection is primarily thinking through the after-effects. Oxy was getting the board to not think about Brass, but focus on three slots including himself -- which you and Brass had locked town. After the gambit, with one confirmed scum in oxy, me, flicker, I am almost certainly the mislynch because your suspicions have been confirmed and Meji/Flicker's heightened. Sure, the possibility brass might be teamed elsewhere also played a role, but this was my major concern -- that indicting (flicker me oxy) led inevitably to my lynch rather than Oxy's, even if it did increase his appearing guilt.

[teacher]

. That cannot have been real, given the amount Brass had to have read to get the first readslist on Elephant, and Flicker

Its not just memory, Brother Brass. ITs the fact that you read enough to post a readslist. It was repeatedly pointed out -- By Oxy, by Elephant, By Thor, By Me! -- D2 that my claim was not a lock.

Maybe an SE with a relevant tracker fake-claim experience forgets it. Just maybe. But not an SE who has read day 2 enough to provide reads. FAKE.

[Oxy]

The reason I didnt play through Oxy's gambit after my reflection is primarily thinking through the after-effects. Oxy was getting the board to not think about Brass, but focus on three slots including himself -- which you and Brass had locked town. After the gambit, with one confirmed scum in oxy, me, flicker, I am almost certainly the mislynch because your suspicions have been confirmed and Meji/Flicker's heightened. Sure, the possibility brass might be teamed elsewhere also played a role, but this was my major concern -- that indicting (flicker me oxy) led inevitably to my lynch rather than Oxy's, even if it did increase his appearing guilt.

Yes, the goal of the gambit would have been to focus town's attention onto a smaller subset of players with the goal of eventually lynching a high scum-equity player in you or flicker.
100% correct.

And so long as we're just throwing shade, I can't imagine why scum!teacher wouldn't want to do it ;P