Mini 2006: Scummer in this game UPick GAME OVER

[NicoRobin]

My point still stands, he told us we are confirmed town. Not 'You are masons' or any variation thereof, as he would if we were scum masons. He told us that we are confirmed town to each other.

I briefly reconsidering my stance on your predecessor, but you are spouting the same sort of nonsense he did, so I am keeping my vote where it is.

[MariaR]

And heh. You cannot hold a candle to me when it comes to paranoia. I am Prof. Paranoia. Have been ever since SU2. If I townread mastina, then she is town, period.

keeping this for post game

[Kokichi Oma]

How much time do we have

[Cheetory6]

VOTECOUNT 1.26

Lady LambdaDelta [1]

- Kokichi Oma

Not_Mafia [3]

- Lady LambdaDelta, beeboy, Momrangal

Pine [1]

- Lovebird

OnTheMark [4]

- NicoRobin, mastina, Pine, Not_Mafia

Momrangal [1]

- MariaR

Kokichi Oma [1]

- MOMOMEN

Not Voting [2]:

CheekyTeeky, OnTheMark

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
You have (expired on 2018-05-16 18:00:00) to do so.

[NicoRobin]

How much time do we have

5 days, 3 hours, 35 minutes.

[Cheetory6]

you should be able to answer whether or not the role "mason" being scum aligned would be bastard my guy

Given that this is a theme game, I cannot guarantee the internal mechanics of any given role when it would be contained within a black box at this point.
Giving hypothetical answers regarding roles that may or may not exist isn't something that I do as a mod in the main thread.
The outlines of what constitutes as bastard are have already been specified and the questions being asked do not apply to whether this game would be directly constituted as bastard.

[mastina]

I think that points to at least one very good scum player here.

Well,

duh

.

Care to narrow it down?

Because...
i) beeboy
ii) CheekyTeeky
iii) Momrangal

iv) OnTheMark Wisdom

v) MariaR

vii) Lady Lambdadelta

viii) Kokichi Oma

x) mastina

xi) Pine Sudowoodo [Hydra of Alisae & Pine]

xiii) MOMOMEN [Hydra of

Eddie Cane

& Killthestory]

...This is the list of players I'd call, at least

situationally

, "very good scum players".
The bolded are players I'd call, fairly universally, very good scum players.
The italicized I personally don't consider to be that skilled but in spite of how transparent their scumgame is, by god, dammit, in spite of knowing they're scum you can't actually fucking lynch them so I guess they count as very good scum players too, begrudgingly.

...This is not a small list, so saying that the scum contains at least one very good scum player doesn't narrow things down much.

[Not_Mafia]

How humble

[mastina]

Help me catch up who all is neg utility?

For the record, there is an 80% chance that OnTheMark is faking this catch-up and already knows everything.

That's not a 20% chance OnTheMark is town, by the way.

That's 80% chance OnTheMark is scum faking a lack of knowledge, 18% chance OnTheMark is scum genuinely lacking the knowledge, and a 2% chance OnTheMark is just town without the knowledge.

So what I'm saying is, I think that OnTheMark is faking a lack of knowledge; even if he's not, the lack of knowledge wouldn't make him town.

So I'm quite happy with my vote.

[mastina]

Mastina you’re claiming neg utility action and

town mason

with Nico, correct?

Correct. There is more to both Nico's role and my role than just being a mason. We each have at least one additional power. It would be anti-town to claim further details than that information; we've revealed the important parts, that we are masons, that we're more than just masons, and that I have a compulsive negative utility action I must use today.

I think this post was a joke. beeboy is claiming mason with lovebird iirc.

No, I'm quite certain beeboy's town godfather claim was serious. It either exists in tandem with his mason role because you're not going to be JUST a mason and nothing else (proof: Nico and I), or it exists without the mason and is his actual real role.

Either way, it exists. Mason-godfather, or Godfather-fakeclaiming-mason. But it's real.

Pine I expect better from you tbh so I think you're scum.

Au contrair! Better from Pine would be scum from Pine.

[mastina]

If you think you can ever make a post like "Maria only does ___ as scum or ___ as town" and it be correct you're wrong. I've openly said I hate using high levels of ate as scum though because winning like that isn't fun at all. Like could I prob win with high level ate and if I tryhard the fuck just going for a scum win? Yeah but that's not fun.

Uh-huh.

(I'd all too happily wagon Maria if the Mark wagon fell apart.)

[mastina]

Mod could scum be masons?

The answer to this is no. Nico actually asked this right off the bat in our mason PT. Was one of the first things she did. Thought it was pretty dumb to do because of course masons are town in a non-bastard game it is literally written into the wiki for masons to be conftown to one another, but she asked it anyway as one of her quirks and Cheet did answer, so.

Absolutely, masons are conftown. They cannot be scum.

[mastina]

Masons are a group of players who can speak to each other privately and

know that everyone in their group is not a member of the Mafia

. Whether the Masons' ability to privately communicate can be used at any time or at Night only is up to the moderator's discretion. The number of Masons can vary from game to game, and

it is not impossible for there to exist separate Mason groups within the same game

.

Alignment:
Pro-town

(Also, this is a quite serious dare.

Find me the last game to use a MAFIA Mason.

I'd be willing to bet you can't find one later than 2010. I know there's one in a notorious Large "Normal" which was singlehandedly the game responsible for launching the inception of the NRG, but that game also had a cult and lyncher in it among others. Yes, I said NORMAL. With airquotes for good fucking reason.)

[mastina]

Me and Lovebird are still gambiting.
Mastina and Nicorobin are still masons yw.

Fixed that for you.

[mastina]

Mod could scum be masons?

The answer to this is no. Nico actually asked this right off the bat in our mason PT. Was one of the first things she did. Thought it was pretty dumb to do because of course masons are town in a non-bastard game it is literally written into the wiki for masons to be conftown to one another, but she asked it anyway as one of her quirks and Cheet did answer, so.

Absolutely, masons are conftown. They cannot be scum.

To be a little more explicit.

Nico's exact question to Cheetory was if we are explicitly confirmed town to one another; Cheet answered that yes, we are. (Actually it was just 'yes'.)

If beeboy and Lovebird are genuinely masons, they can ask that same question to Cheetory and get that same answer.

[MariaR]

If you think you can ever make a post like "Maria only does ___ as scum or ___ as town" and it be correct you're wrong. I've openly said I hate using high levels of ate as scum though because winning like that isn't fun at all. Like could I prob win with high level ate and if I tryhard the fuck just going for a scum win? Yeah but that's not fun.

Uh-huh.

(I'd all too happily wagon Maria if the Mark wagon fell apart.)

calling me a liar?

[OnTheMark]

Mod could scum be masons?

The answer to this is no. Nico actually asked this right off the bat in our mason PT. Was one of the first things she did. Thought it was pretty dumb to do because of course masons are town in a non-bastard game it is literally written into the wiki for masons to be conftown to one another, but she asked it anyway as one of her quirks and Cheet did answer, so.

Absolutely, masons are conftown. They cannot be scum.

To be a little more explicit.

Nico's exact question to Cheetory was if we are explicitly confirmed town to one another; Cheet answered that yes, we are. (Actually it was just 'yes'.)

If beeboy and Lovebird are genuinely masons, they can ask that same question to Cheetory and get that same answer.

Mastina you’re claiming neg utility action and

town mason

with Nico, correct?

Correct. There is more to both Nico's role and my role than just being a mason. We each have at least one additional power. It would be anti-town to claim further details than that information; we've revealed the important parts, that we are masons, that we're more than just masons, and that I have a compulsive negative utility action I must use today.

I think this post was a joke. beeboy is claiming mason with lovebird iirc.

No, I'm quite certain beeboy's town godfather claim was serious. It either exists in tandem with his mason role because you're not going to be JUST a mason and nothing else (proof: Nico and I), or it exists without the mason and is his actual real role.

Either way, it exists. Mason-godfather, or Godfather-fakeclaiming-mason. But it's real.

Pine I expect better from you tbh so I think you're scum.

Au contrair! Better from Pine would be scum from Pine.

Which if I believe you which I

don’t

because my role is literally the antithesis to what you claimed you have to explain 4 mason town or be tunneling the shit out of Beeboy/lovebird.

Because if you were a town mason and not a scum one then you’d be all down for lynching the other pair because a mod such as yourself knows 4 masons never passes review.

But you can’t and if Beeboy is scum Beeboy can’t. So instead you push me. Because you don’t want to answer the question.

[mastina]

Scum masons is not outside Jingle’s repertoire.

This is scum speculation 100% of the time (because scum can almost never win if both sets of masons are treated as conftown) especially since I know Jingle enough to say yes they fucking are. Jingle is one of the best players at knowing setups and their interplay. Especially setups featuring mechanics such as masons; he singlehandedly broke open jjh's Iambic Tetrameter game decisively and accurately.

He would know better than to stoop to scum masons. That is, if the idea was even considered in the first place. It is such an outrageous idea that frankly it would never cross his mind in the first place. Masons are conftown to one another. Period.

[OnTheMark]

Scum masons is not outside Jingle’s repertoire.

This is scum speculation 100% of the time (because scum can almost never win if both sets of masons are treated as conftown) especially since I know Jingle enough to say yes they fucking are. Jingle is one of the best players at knowing setups and their interplay. Especially setups featuring mechanics such as masons; he singlehandedly broke open jjh's Iambic Tetrameter game decisively and accurately.

He would know better than to stoop to scum masons. That is, if the idea was even considered in the first place. It is such an outrageous idea that frankly it would never cross his mind in the first place. Masons are conftown to one another. Period.

Nice word twist.

They are confirmed to share the same fucking alignment.

Not town.

Only normal rules require that town

And just because something is not a part of normal setup and / or not done regularly doesn’t make it not here

Otherwise the game I cited would be bastard.

There legit cannot be 4 masons in this setup or scum lose

Address that or push Beeboy/Lovebird who are confirmed scum to tou

[OnTheMark]

Scum masons is not outside Jingle’s repertoire.

This is scum speculation 100% of the time (because scum can almost never win if both sets of masons are treated as conftown) especially since I know Jingle enough to say yes they fucking are. Jingle is one of the best players at knowing setups and their interplay. Especially setups featuring mechanics such as masons; he singlehandedly broke open jjh's Iambic Tetrameter game decisively and accurately.

He would know better than to stoop to scum masons. That is, if the idea was even considered in the first place. It is such an outrageous idea that frankly it would never cross his mind in the first place. Masons are conftown to one another. Period.

Nice word twist.

They are confirmed to share the same fucking alignment.

Not town.

Only normal rules require that town

And just because something is not a part of normal setup and / or not done regularly doesn’t make it not here

Otherwise the game I cited would be bastard.

There legit cannot be 4 masons in this setup or scum lose

Address that or push Beeboy/Lovebird who are confirmed scum to tou

[OnTheMark]

If I make a joat 1 shot encryptor one shot vanillizer one shot tomato vendor one shot message giver that hasn’t been done before I don’t think but that doesn’t change the odds of happening here

Setup balance dictates one of the pairs is lying as 5 confirmed town D1 cannot exist in a mini ever.

[mastina]

Mod could scum be masons?

The answer to this is no. Nico actually asked this right off the bat in our mason PT. Was one of the first things she did. Thought it was pretty dumb to do because of course masons are town in a non-bastard game it is literally written into the wiki for masons to be conftown to one another, but she asked it anyway as one of her quirks and Cheet did answer, so.

Absolutely, masons are conftown. They cannot be scum.

To be a little more explicit.

Nico's exact question to Cheetory was if we are explicitly confirmed town to one another; Cheet answered that yes, we are. (Actually it was just 'yes'.)

If beeboy and Lovebird are genuinely masons, they can ask that same question to Cheetory and get that same answer.

To further confirm we are masons.

Say beeboy and Lovebird come back and confirm this is the answer Cheetory gives to the question, "Are we explicitly conftown to one another?". That Cheetory answers 'yes' to it.

Okay then.
Try asking the mod, "Hypothetically, if I were a mason with another player, would we be conftown to one another?"
If Cheetory refuses to answer that question.

In spite of answering it for Nico and I.
And beeboy/Lovebird (assuming they can even produce this confirmation in the first place).
Then he is by proxy confirming we cannot have this information as scum.

And yes I know I am backing Cheetory into a corner; that's what I fucking do.

Cheetory has two choices here.
He can keep modding his game consistently, deny the answers to the non-masons, give them to the second pair of masons, and indirectly confirm by this process we are conftown.
Or he can break consistent modding practice by giving answers to the non-masons...which, by proxy of him needing to answer the same. Ends up indirectly confirming by that process we are conftown.

I might not be wording this the best way, but basically.

-Cheetory has, publicly, denied to answer the question of if masons are conftown to one another.
-Cheetory has, privately to Nico Robin and I, confirmed that we are explicitly conftown to one another.
-If beeboy and Lovebird are genuinely masons, Cheetory cannot justify giving one set of masons one answer and then giving a different set of masons a different answer; this is setting his game up for self-destruction, and thus, he is forced to give them the same answer to maintain consistent modding practice.
-However, Cheetory DOES have a choice: between privately confirming to players that masons are explicitly confirmed to one another, or privately denying to answer players asking if masons are explicitly confirmed to one another.
*If Cheetory chooses to privately confirm that masons are explicitly confirmed to one another, then while the option of scum fakeclaiming remains theoretically possible, we have confirmed that there's no fucking thing as "One half of the masonry is town, the other half is scum". This allows us to know that the only possibilities are both-town or both-scum.
*If Cheetory chooses to privately decline to answer if masons are explicitly confirmed to one another, then it confirms that Nico Robin, myself, beeboy, and Lovebird

somehow

obtained information unavailable to others; four names having it means we can't be a scumteam, either. This confirms beyond any shadow of a doubt that we are conftown.

Of course. This plan doesn't work if beeboy and Lovebird aren't actually masons and thus can't get the information Nico and I got, buuuuuuut. I'd take that smugly too as an "I fucking told you so that we were masons".

[OnTheMark]

I 100% guarantee in the 10+ years of playing mafia I have never seen the role PM I received. You can try to tell me it doesn’t exist but I can go back and stare at it.

[MariaR]

mastina did the exact same thing as scum btw
exact same line

[OnTheMark]

Again if you’re town it’s legalese and splitting hairs

A town mason asks that question
A scum mason asks that question and replaces town with scum

You’re trying to argue legalese and manipulating the situation to your advantage

My fucking point stands one of the pairs is scum.