Mini 2006: Scummer in this game UPick GAME OVER

[OnTheMark]

I have to go but one of the pairs is scum

4 masons never passes a review EVER

[OnTheMark]

The fact Mastina pushes me over two people who are confirmed scum to her says a lot.

[MariaR]

mathy
she's scum

[OnTheMark]

mathy
she's scum

She’s influential scum. If I don’t get people to see it then I die and people assume Math is stupid.

[MariaR]

lynch her with me?

[mastina]

Mod could scum be masons?

The answer to this is no. Nico actually asked this right off the bat in our mason PT. Was one of the first things she did. Thought it was pretty dumb to do because of course masons are town in a non-bastard game it is literally written into the wiki for masons to be conftown to one another, but she asked it anyway as one of her quirks and Cheet did answer, so.

Absolutely, masons are conftown. They cannot be scum.

To be a little more explicit.

Nico's exact question to Cheetory was if we are explicitly confirmed town to one another; Cheet answered that yes, we are. (Actually it was just 'yes'.)

If beeboy and Lovebird are genuinely masons, they can ask that same question to Cheetory and get that same answer.

To further confirm we are masons.

Say beeboy and Lovebird come back and confirm this is the answer Cheetory gives to the question, "Are we explicitly conftown to one another?". That Cheetory answers 'yes' to it.

Okay then.
Try asking the mod, "Hypothetically, if I were a mason with another player, would we be conftown to one another?"
If Cheetory refuses to answer that question.

In spite of answering it for Nico and I.
And beeboy/Lovebird (assuming they can even produce this confirmation in the first place).
Then he is by proxy confirming we cannot have this information as scum.

And yes I know I am backing Cheetory into a corner; that's what I fucking do.

Cheetory has two choices here.
He can keep modding his game consistently, deny the answers to the non-masons, give them to the second pair of masons, and indirectly confirm by this process we are conftown.
Or he can break consistent modding practice by giving answers to the non-masons...which, by proxy of him needing to answer the same. Ends up indirectly confirming by that process we are conftown.

I might not be wording this the best way, but basically.

-Cheetory has, publicly, denied to answer the question of if masons are conftown to one another.
-Cheetory has, privately to Nico Robin and I, confirmed that we are explicitly conftown to one another.
-If beeboy and Lovebird are genuinely masons, Cheetory cannot justify giving one set of masons one answer and then giving a different set of masons a different answer; this is setting his game up for self-destruction, and thus, he is forced to give them the same answer to maintain consistent modding practice.
-However, Cheetory DOES have a choice: between privately confirming to players that masons are explicitly confirmed to one another, or privately denying to answer players asking if masons are explicitly confirmed to one another.
*If Cheetory chooses to privately confirm that masons are explicitly confirmed to one another, then while the option of scum fakeclaiming remains theoretically possible, we have confirmed that there's no fucking thing as "One half of the masonry is town, the other half is scum". This allows us to know that the only possibilities are both-town or both-scum.
*If Cheetory chooses to privately decline to answer if masons are explicitly confirmed to one another, then it confirms that Nico Robin, myself, beeboy, and Lovebird

somehow

obtained information unavailable to others; four names having it means we can't be a scumteam, either. This confirms beyond any shadow of a doubt that we are conftown.

Of course. This plan doesn't work if beeboy and Lovebird aren't actually masons and thus can't get the information Nico and I got, buuuuuuut. I'd take that smugly too as an "I fucking told you so that we were masons".

To reiterate.

beeboy and Lovebird, you need to ask Cheetory IN YOUR MASON PT if you are explicitly conftown to one another.
Everyone who is not a mason, you need to ask Cheetory IN PRIVATE, "Hypothetically, if I were a mason with another player, would we be explicitly conftown to one another?"

No matter how Cheetory responds, if everyone follows this process, we will end up confirming information about masons.

That beeboy and Lovebird are fucking liars (just town ones at that) if they can't produce this confirmation, that masons can't be town-scum if Cheetory answers in private, or that all four of mastina/Nico/beeboy/Lovebird have information unavailable even by asking the mod and thus it pertains to their roles and thus they are actually masons.

No matter which option we come out as having. You end up with conftown that are, truly, even without flips, conftown.

All you have to do is ask the right question to the mod.

[beeboy]

I want Mastina to gambit and kill Nico Robin to keep me and lovebird alive.
I don't see what part of this you guys don't understand.

[MariaR]

VOTE: mastina

[beeboy]

I want Mastina to gambit and kill Nico Robin to keep me and lovebird alive.
I don't see what part of this you guys don't understand.

[mastina]

Also for the record our PT name is literally just "MASON PT", which if beeboy and Lovebird are legit masons I can assume they'll be able to confirm is the name of theirs as well.

[NicoRobin]

mathy
she's scum

No, she is not. We'll see which one of us is right post-game

Hint: I am.

[MariaR]

mhm

[NicoRobin]

I want Mastina to gambit and kill Nico Robin to keep me and lovebird alive.
I don't see what part of this you guys don't understand.

She won't be killing me. She can't kill me either.

[mastina]

So shut the fuck up with your obfuscation about the Mason claims.

Here's an idea.

Obfuscating about the mason claims is playing to his wincon.

Most likely, one pair is lying and is scum. I suspect they're your partners, and I'm starting to think that the Occam's answer is Nico/Mastina. Nico messaged us about Masons before Mastina gave the green light, and now she's doing everything she can to keep up the pretense, because failing to do so is an instant double-lynch. Bee and Lovebird, on the other hand, played the way I expect Masons to play - they kept their cool and only claimed when it became necessary and proper.

Okay then if this is your perspective then help us double-fucking-bus considering Yume and I are HARD-pushing the Wisdomslot/OnTheMark as scum and that's where our vote is at, sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo......

[MariaR]

I might feel better about mastina if her playstyle wasn't objectively as anit town as it is but oh well

[mastina]

Is it sad that I auto-TRD math because he doesn't like replacing into scummy slots?

Actually.
You have two options there.
Either OnTheMark didn't read the game in advance and thus had no way of knowing the alignment of the player he was replacing.
Or, in spite of OnTheMark pretending otherwise, he DID read the game in advance and thus him pretending to do otherwise is fucking bullshit.

Benefit of the doubt leads to the former. Which gives you...

...A literal roll of the die as to Mark's alignment; he can be town or scum with equal chances.

What makes him scum is what he's

doing

since coming in.

[beeboy]

VOTE: Momrangal

[beeboy]

Mastina if you truly intend on busing actually do it pls.

[mastina]

1) Scum masons are not bastard similar to scum without nightchat, Unexpected yes. A lie, no.

Pedit wtf? masons is just people of same alignment.

Which is it?

3) I am not trying to “get the masons lynched” I am trying to understand the setup and how Jingle would ever approve this.

Huh. Funny. I seem to recall hearing

this exact fucking excuse

before. I wonder where......

lol
It doesnt make sense for me to try to solve the game

OH RIGHT.
(Could find a better quote than that one but you get the idea.)

[Kokichi Oma]

I think that points to at least one very good scum player here.

Well,

duh

.

Care to narrow it down?

Because...
i) beeboy
ii) CheekyTeeky
iii) Momrangal

iv) OnTheMark Wisdom

v) MariaR

vii) Lady Lambdadelta

viii) Kokichi Oma

x) mastina

xi) Pine Sudowoodo [Hydra of Alisae & Pine]

xiii) MOMOMEN [Hydra of

Eddie Cane

& Killthestory]

...This is the list of players I'd call, at least

situationally

, "very good scum players".
The bolded are players I'd call, fairly universally, very good scum players.
The italicized I personally don't consider to be that skilled but in spite of how transparent their scumgame is, by god, dammit, in spite of knowing they're scum you can't actually fucking lynch them so I guess they count as very good scum players too, begrudgingly.

...This is not a small list, so saying that the scum contains at least one very good scum player doesn't narrow things down much.

...thanks.

[Kokichi Oma]

mastina did the exact same thing as scum btw
exact same line

Link? Or quote

[mastina]

Can't tell if Town!OTM is conflating Neighbor and Mason
Or if Scum!OTM is being intentionally obtuse to muddy the waters.
Leaning the latter.

Oh it is SO the latter.

Especially as this has been tackled from every fucking angle possible.

You literally having the masons themselves having fucking TOLD you that THE MOD TOLD THEM THAT THEY ARE EXPLICITLY CONFTOWN TO EACH OTHER.

The mod told us we are conftown to one another.

Yume claimed this and OnTheMark has paid it no heed.

This game is not bastard.

This has been pointed out.

Scum masons are bastard.

This has been pointed out.

OnTheMark is trying to shade every possible angle to have the masons not treated as conftown. Because OnTheMark knows that if four players are treated as town, the game becomes almost impossible for scum to win.

[beeboy]

Just vote Momrangal please.

[Kokichi Oma]

Logic says have mom if they are town or scum figure the Mason nonsense out. They cant lie about their report unless she is scum with 1 pair of masons and that's a big gambit for day 1

[beeboy]

Logic says to just lynch the outed scum.