Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition (Day 8)

[Ankamius]

That is weak as hell, plus I disagree about the CC. But truly, I don't care anymore. Do what you want without me.

Fallout 2 came out in 1998. I've been a fan ever since. Obsessed. I've got over 500 hours into FO4 alone. My fiance and I go as vault dwellers for Halloween frequently. We own all the games for xbox 360/One and PC, plus FO Shelter on iPad, mobile and steam. When I saw GIF made a large theme for the latest game, I was beyond excited. I had no idea there'd be a player who would make the experience so distasteful.

This is not "Let RC walk all over everyone", but that's what's happening. It doesn't even matter if he's right or not. The fact that he has no notion of how to speak to people or help others understand his point of view without ramrodding his own opinion over everyone else's makes this completely un-enjoyable.

For someone like me who is a huge fan of the series and a huge fan of GIF's games in general, this is a massive disappointment, and honestly makes me question my decision to come back in the first place. I've already let Jingle know I'm not interested in continuing, so please speak to him if you absolutely must address this slot.

ETL

:/

Well... I'm still willing to work with you, ETL, I'm just a bit lost since I'm disconnected from the gamestate.

[Impossibear]

Busy today, so you have limited time with me. If anyone has anything they specifically need answered, speak now or wait until I have time to get back to you.

[Ankamius]

It feels like the scum that were pushing me in twilight yesterday were instructed to back off during the night just by the way it shifted at the start of the day.

Only issue with it is... why? I don't understand why anyone here would do that.

[Ramcius]

It feels like the scum that were pushing me in twilight yesterday were instructed to back off during the night just by the way it shifted at the start of the day.

Only issue with it is... why? I don't understand why anyone here would do that.

can you say names of those scums?

[Ouroboros]

Because I want to save you for a LyLo mislynch Ankamius

I want to recreate the great majesty of NY184 by bussing my entire scumteam then lynching you in 3 way when you're the cop inno in a setup with confirmed no godfather

[Ouroboros]

[Ouroboros]

give us a ring ding ding, it's a beautiful day!

[Impossibear]

Step 1: receive miller fakeclaim
Step 2: Davesaz claims miller on page 1
Step 3: consternation in scum chat. what do we do here?
Step 4: Meta dive and find history of GIF putting two town millers. On top of that, 2 players are in the game who know of that mod meta (RC and Kaede Akamatsu.)
Step 5: 'counterclaim' Davesaz expecting someone to bring up the mod meta here, hence you seeking information rather than outright calling them scum.
Step 6: Ventriloquist completely avoids engaging with the Wilky wagon in any form after saying that he thinks it's possible that you're scum, instead chainsaw voting Ramcius for voting you.

This logic has exactly the same problem as the logic you had for the Vent lynch. Namely, it presupposes RC scum. I didn't speak up about it on the Vent lynch because there was at least one player either than the two of us (Jungle) that both could and would have coached Vent. Tell me exactly who on this playerlist is both capable of and the correct type of player to coach this behavior, and I'll consider it.

Otherwise, wilky is a low information lynch that needs to be dealt with before LYLO but NOT TODAY. At this point, I'm either basically the same level of town as Kaede or just below, (or at least, I will be tomorrow), so I get to throw my weight around there without backing it up. If you die before me, I promise to lynch wilky on your behalf, and you know I don't lie about that kind of shit as town, because I do trust that your reads have value. If I die before you, you can lynch him without me standing in the way. Just put that whole thing on the backburner for now and trust me for once.

[Ouroboros]

You're supremely underestimating the level of competence that scum has. I'm not going to just not lynch them if you don't provide anything.

This logic has exactly the same problem as the logic you had for the Vent lynch. Namely, it presupposes RC scum. I didn't speak up about it on the Vent lynch because there was at least one player either than the two of us (Jungle) that both could and would have coached Vent. Tell me exactly who on this playerlist is both capable of and the correct type of player to coach this behavior, and I'll consider it.

I think there's a wide range of people who would check mod meta after seeing the miller claim + the fakeclaim and then suggest their teammate claim honestly.
Like it's not some super obscure thing for anyone to do and I don't know why you keep acting like it is. I'm not going to go for an 'information lynch' when Wilky IS the information lynch of this game.

Like I think that having a miller fakeclaim and seeing a miller claim is jarring enough that most people would go back and do mod meta.

[Impossibear]

And this is the mod that put 2 scum neighbors, so yeah.

GiF has much the same philosophy as I do when it comes to balancing games. Punish towns who think they can outguess the mod about what alignment a specific role is, but still leave enough synergy in the game that it comes out in the post how everything works together. Both scum and town millers are entirely possible here. The miller claim itself is null.

RC, can you dig up links to the games with 2 town millers when you get a chance, btw. I want to check something.

[Ouroboros]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=72816 most recent one, don't remember the others and no mental energy to back rn

[Ouroboros]

FA's TRFB is another.

[Impossibear]

Reasoning on Tchill:

Town has, presumably, a full protective role, given the lack of kill last night and the obvious choices for whom to kill. We're a bulletproof. From a utility standpoint, Tchill might as well have claimed conditional bulletproof. We have a missing kill, and my role all but confirms that there is a scum protective role by it's wording.

That is 4 theoretical protective roles, removing literally half of the reason for GiF to include a scum protection in the first place. Furthermore, the way in which Tchill claimed immediately removed all town utility (preventing a nightkill) from the slot with no reasoning. He has 0 town utility, isn't impacting the game, and MAJOR scum equity. He can't be resolved by night actions. He isn't resolving himself through play. And unlike the miller claims, he can't be resolved by vigging him.

But more importantly, we need to get the quest fulfillment out of the way.

[Impossibear]

Aight, I'll get to it today or tomorrow, thanks. I might also look up the others, but one might be enough to see what I'm looking for.

[Impossibear]

I think there's a wide range of people who would check mod meta after seeing the miller claim + the fakeclaim and then suggest their teammate claim honestly.

Specific names please? This is important. Because I think the people in this game who would be likely to are all the people who are most probably town.

[Ankamius]

Because I want to save you for a LyLo mislynch Ankamius

I want to recreate the great majesty of NY184 by bussing my entire scumteam then lynching you in 3 way when you're the cop inno in a setup with confirmed no godfather

You won because you brought two heavily apathied players into LyLo. You very likely wouldn't have won that game if I hadn't apathied out so heavily.

[wilky]

No like I'm actually not literally 100% certain Wilky is scum. I've repeatedly asked for you to engage with me on it where I didn't for Vent because I can be persuaded here.
I made my points, asked for thoughts on it, you just got mad at me for leading the playerlist when today I've been doing so solely through strength of reasoning rather than character.

I think Wilky scum makes a shitton of sense in the gamestate particularly given Ventriloquist's approach to the slot, but like I'm open to persuading
You've made no effort to actually push Wilky scum besides to say that they're locktown because of flavor, which is... bad reasoning

And wilky, your defense keeps coming down to whether or not scum have fakeclaims and arguments that don't address the case at all so, meh.

Thats because there is no case to address I mean half of it is the claim and the other half is how vent acted on my slot.

[Ouroboros]

well you're wrong but you're entitled to be wrong.

[Ouroboros]

No like I'm actually not literally 100% certain Wilky is scum. I've repeatedly asked for you to engage with me on it where I didn't for Vent because I can be persuaded here.
I made my points, asked for thoughts on it, you just got mad at me for leading the playerlist when today I've been doing so solely through strength of reasoning rather than character.

I think Wilky scum makes a shitton of sense in the gamestate particularly given Ventriloquist's approach to the slot, but like I'm open to persuading
You've made no effort to actually push Wilky scum besides to say that they're locktown because of flavor, which is... bad reasoning

And wilky, your defense keeps coming down to whether or not scum have fakeclaims and arguments that don't address the case at all so, meh.

Thats because there is no case to address I mean half of it is the claim and the other half is how vent acted on my slot.

There's also the fact that you used MWNN/Ventriloquist associatives to push on MWNN while saying that Vent could be scum if MWNN was scum but refusing to go the other direction until it became basically guaranteed to happen and never actually comment on Ventriloquist much at all.

[Impossibear]

Well... I'm still willing to work with you, ETL, I'm just a bit lost since I'm disconnected from the gamestate.

Thanks. ETL should be sticking around because I'm not someone who replaces out of games under any circumstances, (including deaths in the family,) so she's sticking it out to feed me reads, at least for now. She also said she's happy to be in charge of engaging with certain people (mainly our strongest townreads) to try to PoE the game when she calms down, so be ready for her to take you up on that.

[Dunnstral]

You guys might have a better shot at engaging people if you didn't post hundreds of posts when everyone else has like 20

[Impossibear]

You guys might have a better shot at engaging people if you didn't post hundreds of posts when everyone else has like 20

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Hey ETL, here's an excellent idea, since you're so knowledgeable of the flavor of this game, and since flavor is so indicative of one's alignment, let's have everyone mass flavor claim so you can tell us who's scum!
Sounds like something GIF would let happen right?!!

[Ouroboros]

Meh. This game required that level of posting to deal with Impossibear and RMOJ both trying their hardest to prevent the Ventriloquist lynch.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Hey ETL, here's an excellent idea, since you're so knowledgeable of the flavor of this game, and since flavor is so indicative of one's alignment, let's have everyone mass flavor claim so you can tell us who's scum!
Sounds like something GIF would let happen right?!!

wtf is this... when did I ever say that was the only reason I was townreading him? Not to mention, this is rude as hell.. who the fuck actually believes this? You really think I am this fucking stupid?

jfc...