Newbie 1867 - Game Over

[teacher]

VOTE: Teacher

I suppose that’s is a reaction. But my bottom line is that I haven’t liked any of the reasoning you were giving, and now you’re not giving any. Another OMGUS? Actual thoughts?

I know SEs don’t have any particular duties. I just got through a game where we had five in total. I’d just expect you’d want to get life back in a game that was boring you.

[vulcan logician]

One reason that I'm suspecting Harambe less now is that he wanted to replace out. I could see that being NAI, but this gamestate is bad for town... frustrating for town... and I could see scum sticking it through because a bunch of disinterested townies is an easy win.

[TheRampage]

Teacher, keep in mind that I just subbed in yesterday. I read through, stated what I saw and voted. I have been fairly active since coming in.

point taken. The two previous slot owners were the null ones. One day was not enough for me to have a gut of you (plus I was pretty glazed after reading through 13 pages all at once)

I completely understand. I was too. I feel like I need to go back and read again when I get home from work.

[teacher]

Vulcan - will do tonight.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Teacher

I suppose that’s is a reaction. But my bottom line is that I haven’t liked any of the reasoning you were giving, and now you’re not giving any. Another OMGUS? Actual thoughts?

I know SEs don’t have any particular duties. I just got through a game where we had five in total. I’d just expect you’d want to get life back in a game that was boring you.

Yes, another OMGUS vote.

Though on a more serious note, I am going try to do something useful soonish.

[TheRampage]

I swear, if Jester were a possibility in this game, Ircher would be sure fire Jester. Can't tell if bad town or scrum though

[Nachomamma8]

Nancy!!!!!!!

[Scioness Sajj]

Welcome nancy and teacher!

1. OMGUS more or less
2. Just cuz

'Just cuz' doesn't really cut it for me as an answer. I need you to talk to me, could you elaborate more?

(i'm still catching up, had to leave for few hours otl)

[Scioness Sajj]

I swear, if Jester were a possibility in this game, Ircher would be sure fire Jester. Can't tell if bad town or scrum though

is this a comment to Icher's posts on past few pages? If so, what makes those posts look scummy to you?

My only other possible is NorthSideGal. I say possible they are rubbing me the wrong way with that post using meta from other games. I personally think that is bad reasoning for mafia. I have played with people who change their strategy to keep people on their toes and not be able to use meta, and I have seen people play the exact same whether they are town or mafia. So, I just find it funny that on day 1 when there really isn't much to go off of, that they have meta reads on just about everyone. Still, to me, it really isn't actionable, but it is definitely something I will be keeping my eyes on.

Since there isn't much to go off D1 why is it bad that NSG is using her previous experiences with players to form reads? (also I think you didn't carefully read her posts, she only has two reads of meta, really).

Right now though, I think ofrhz is the one I feel most comfortable with for the reasons I stated several posts ago. He has stayed under the radar, not leading any lynches. I he tried to test the waters for a Vulcan lynch, but never committed until other people hopped on. All those are scum things to me; cause he was leading it, but not really trying to sound like he was leading it. It has been almost 24 hours since I pointed that out, and he had not popped in yet, and I find it hard to believe he hasn't read it yet.

Has ofrhz replacing out changed your opinion?

What's your experience with playing forum mafia?

[teacher]

So I had more time than I expected, and did dive Rampage’s and Ircher’s Isos. Two quick posts as a result. This one is to share what little I have learned in 3 completed games here with Rampage:

Harambey showed intent to hammer, but if you really want to hammer, just do it.

NO! Intent is pretty required here, as others have said (and you now know.) Not only is it to give a chance for those on the wagon to reevaluate (the reason previously given), but it is also designed to give a chance for the target to claim PR (not previously mentioned).

As I have read (and it seems to be truethis site’s meta frowns very strongly on VT false-claiming PR. So a PR claim gives you 50/50 or better on a slot that can then be sorted by counterclaiming later days, and intent to hammer can avoid killing an important townie.

As an aside, we have reached L-1 three times today, on two slots. None have claimed PR (or VT). But I don’t think we want to run more than one or two more slots up the flagpole, since the more we do it, the more we increase odds of revealing PR.

that post using meta from other games. I personally think that is bad reasoning for mafia.

Again, Im new here too, but this seems incredibly common for the site. It certainly has been used in all of the games Ive been in, by multiple slots. The person who won the prize for best scumhunter on the site says its their tool. So I view this as NAI for the site.

[Ircher]

'Just cuz' doesn't really cut it for me as an answer. I need you to talk to me, could you elaborate more?

Well, that's all you are going to get for No Lynch.

[TheRampage]

Scones, I will respond when I get home

[Scioness Sajj]

Well, that's all you are going to get for No Lynch.

[nancy]

Nancy!!!!!!!

Nacho!!!! <3<3

I am town!

[Ircher]

Town Vibe:
Alciel/North --> 109
Draynth --> 175, 187, 256
Etromin --> 33, 70
Harambey/Nancy --> 35, 45, 152, 156, 313
Nacho --> 164, 165

Ventriloquist

Rampage --> 270
Vulcan --> 14, 48, 105, 107, 118, 226, 234, 324

Scum Vibe:
Alciel/North --> 112
Draynth --> 51, 61
Etromin/Scion --> 13, 115, 247, 287, 292, 305
Harambey/Nancy --> 54, 131, 183, 192, 210, 236, 298
Ofrhz/Teacher --> 150, 215, 235, 263, 319
Ventriloquist/Rampage --> 126, 142, 193, 301
Vulcan --> 53, 60

VOTE: Teacher
Yes, I know I'm already voting. This time for realsies.

[teacher]

Vulcan asked me to dive Ircher quotes that bothered me. Its not the quotes so much as the general game play. The early scumhunting seems forced and inaccurate. Then the detail of the readslists seems to contradict the professed disinterestedness. Im just seeing contradictions and nothing really feels genuine to me. That said, the below is written with full confirmation bias acknowledged. I am also looking forward to the promised usefulness.
Early game:

Spoiler:

Forced and inaccurate reads and pushes.

• 18 Justifies Vulcan vote because “townread on Creppy” (an obvious joke) and “joining the ever popular Haram wagon.” (a misrep – a wagon did form, but Vulcan was the second vote).
  
• 23Points out Haram is at L-1 (here is where I start to see strong associations with Haram, including Haram’s defenses of Ircher, which is part of my case but not in the PbPA since that is from Haram).
  
• 26Criticism of Ofrhz for “jumped off too soon” contradicts vote on Vulcan, because Ofrhz jumped off the same wagon that Ircher is criticizing Vulcan for.
  
• 72Criticism of Nacho for “weak reads.” Notably, Nacho townreads Ircher for this sort of thing, as scum don’t want to antagonize. I just have a different reaction – it seems to be seeing what will stick in town’s collective memory. I think people’s aggressiveness/politeness is more dependent on personality and culture (Southern US/SW Eng v. NY/Manchester) than alignment.
  
• 73 + 76 seem contradictory. Ircher backs down quickly to pressure from Nacho, but still pushes Vulcan.
  
• 77 + 78 + 82 + 89: Uses the Vulcan read to expand onto Draynth, for reasons again that misrepresent the state of play (i.e. that Draynth hadn’t explained his vote (78) – Draynth had in 71; that Draynth didn’t have a lot of content (89) – acknowledged to be false in 92.

Mid-game:

Spoiler:

General contradictions

• Compare 155 + 163 with 199: After declaring that everybody is null
  through 155
  and he is disinterested, Ircher provides very detailed “logarithmic” reads on all slots
  “to post 100”
  .
  
• 202: struck me as LAMISTY and acknowledged IIOA. Interestingly, despite giving Nacho a fairly heavy townread in 199, Ircher points out that Her Harambe vote in 34 was thin, and again an unannounced L-1. Seemed like bizarre shade.
  
• 278 +289 +321 : After casing Vulcan all day, he provides naked votes as the wagon falls apart. Two are pure OMGUS, one is No-lynch (near the deadline). TBH, I simply don’t see this as good play at all, and coming from an SE it is more suspect.

[Ircher]

Compare 155 + 163 with 199: After declaring that everybody is null through 155 and he is disinterested, Ircher provides very detailed “logarithmic” reads on all slots “to post 100”.

Context is key here:

I reread the thread.

[Ircher]

Town - Ircher, Nacho, Vulcan
Townleans - Harambey/Nancy, Draynth
Neutral - Alciel/North
Scumleans - Etromin/Scion, Ventril/Rampage
Scum - Ofrhz/Teacher

[teacher]

FFS. I'm on Mobile, but you go from casing Vulcan (as late as 267) all day to towning them? And from towning me all day (as late as 233 and 264) to scum?

[nancy]

Town Vibe:
Alciel/North --> 109
Draynth --> 175, 187, 256
Etromin --> 33, 70
Harambey/Nancy --> 35, 45, 152, 156, 313
Nacho --> 164, 165

Ventriloquist

Rampage --> 270
Vulcan --> 14, 48, 105, 107, 118, 226, 234, 324

Scum Vibe:
Alciel/North --> 112
Draynth --> 51, 61
Etromin/Scion --> 13, 115, 247, 287, 292, 305
Harambey/Nancy --> 54, 131, 183, 192, 210, 236, 298
Ofrhz/Teacher --> 150, 215, 235, 263, 319
Ventriloquist/Rampage --> 126, 142, 193, 301
Vulcan --> 53, 60

VOTE: Teacher
Yes, I know I'm already voting. This time for realsies.

Those are just post numbers and don't even tell me what your read on those slots are. How is this supposed to help us understand you?

[Ircher]

I never really really had Ofhrz as town, especially not as a strong townread throughout the entire game. And again,

I reread the thread

, this time with a different strategy though. Did you miss my earlier post?

Pedit: Good, you understand they are post numbers. I posted my reads a little ways lower. Anyway, it helps because you can look at the posts (sorry for not linking them) and see where my new reads are coming from.

[nancy]

Town - Ircher, Nacho, Vulcan
Townleans - Harambey/Nancy, Draynth
Neutral - Alciel/North
Scumleans - Etromin/Scion, Ventril/Rampage
Scum - Ofrhz/Teacher

[Ircher]

Explanations are in 339.

[nancy]

Pedit: Good, you understand they are post numbers. I posted my reads a little ways lower. Anyway, it helps because you can look at the posts (sorry for not linking them) and see where my new reads are coming from.

Reading the posts helps me to see how I would read them. It doesn't help me understand how you would read them. I can't mindread and I don't think anyone else can either!

pedit those aren't explanations Ircher lmao

[Ircher]

Didn't you read the categories: town-vibe/scum-vibe? That's what it basically amounts to.