Mini Normal 2012: Tropical Mafia [Endgame]

[Shoshin]

I didn't say 18 is scummy... 18 calls his own post bad and evidences close inspection of votes (the OMGUS point).

[Shoshin]

If I didn't find Rampage scummy, I'd vote Jar for that shallow attempt to throw a vote my way.

[JarJarDrinks]

This is your issue w/ Rampage shosh?

Sho: Why do you think Rampage is scummier? The only suspicious thing I've noticed up until now is TBB's OMGUS vote.

Rampage's entrance has that trying-too-hard-scum-vibe.

thats whats keeping u from voting for me?

[JarJarDrinks]

also

shallow attempt to throw a vote my way.

I think I have some pretty deep reasoning for a page 2 vote.

[Shoshin]

Jar, your "reasoning" is based on a misreading/misunderstanding of what I said.

[Shoshin]

The problem with Jar is that he's making his case on me before trying to understand my thinking. That's how scum play, not town.

[Shoshin]

Rampage's follow-up has confirmed my initial read.

[JarJarDrinks]

So explain a little more.

Is 18 a bad or scummy post independently? Like if he hadn't made post 21, would you be defending/townreading him?

[Shoshin]

Is 18 a bad or scummy post independently? Like if he hadn't made post 21, would you be defending/townreading him?

18 isn't independently scummy. And 21 supports that finding. Yes, 18 "looks" bad because Garuga didn't vote the OMGUS, but there's nothing actually scummy about that. Garuga had a reason for voting as he did (would scum?), and while you might disagree with the way he should have used his vote, there's nothing actually scummy about his approach to RVS. If anything, it indicates inexperience, not alignment.

[JarJarDrinks]

Followup: 3 people voted him for post 18. Do U think there's scum in there?

[Shoshin]

Still working out the meaning of their votes.

[Shoshin]

It could be buddying. I don't think TheRampage's opening post was scummy.

This feels town.

[Shoshin]

If I had to guess, I'd say the three votes on Garuga's 18 were town. But those are very weak reads.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

21 and 22 also seem very scummy
VOTE: Garuga

What's scummy about them?

Rampage's entrance has that trying-too-hard-scum-vibe.

In what way? I don't understand the try-hard part.

Garuga's town because he called his own posts bad, which demonstrates a lack of concern about appearances, and because the OMGUS point shows that he's looking for the underlying meaning to every post, including naked votes during RVS.

Why couldn't scum do this? If he makes a bad post as scum, instead of trying to defend it and dig himself into a hole (thus making himself the first real suspect of the game) why doesn't he just admit it was a bad post and try to move on from it?

VOTE: Invisibility

He didn't provide clear arguments for his reads on me.

Neither did Fitz - why did you choose Invisibility out of the two?

Jar, your "reasoning" is based on a misreading/misunderstanding of what I said.

The problem with Jar is that he's making his case on me before trying to understand my thinking. That's how scum play, not town.

These two posts appear to contradict each other - scum don't 'misread or misunderstand' a post, they misrep it. In 54, you seem to imply Jar is town and 'misreading' what you wrote and in the second post you're clearly calling him scum for it.

Which one is it?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

UNVOTE:

I don't have a single town read yet...if you're town can you start doing towny things please?

Thanks.

[Garuga]

Neither did Fitz - why did you choose Invisibility out of the two?

The wagon on Invisibility seems more viable at the moment.

If I had to guess, I'd say the three votes on Garuga's 18 were town. But those are very weak reads.

I disagree. I think there was some malicious intent in the wagon against me.

My current pet theory on this game is that havingfitz was scum, my vote on him made Scumsibility worried and he wants to discredit me, and Sho is scum playing a different angle. These are very premature reads though.

[Invisibility]

21 and 22 also seem very scummy
VOTE: Garuga

What's scummy about them?

they seem like an awkward attempt for scum to seem like town for agreeing with criticisms. i might just be being suspicious of him but i feel like those posts do not come from town.

[Invisibility]

Garuga, is your vote in 18 an rvs vote? And if so, why did you change it?

[bacy]

why are you defending a post from Garuga that he himself admitted was bad?

That's precisely why.

So ur saying 18 itself could be considered scummy but the post he made defending it 3 posts later is what makes it good?

That doesnt seem like what ur arguing at all in these posts:

Spoiler:

dumb vote and that question was really bad

I disagree. What's "dumb" about the vote? And why is the question "really bad"?

My issue with 18 is he said he found the omgus suspicious but didn’t vote it.

Why's that scummy?

Cause you don’t rvs vote over something suspicious

Why would scum do this?

VOTE: Shoshin

i dont like this vote tbh nor the reason, seems like you're twisting words

[bacy]

Neither did Fitz - why did you choose Invisibility out of the two?

The wagon on Invisibility seems more viable at the moment.

If I had to guess, I'd say the three votes on Garuga's 18 were town. But those are very weak reads.

I disagree. I think there was some malicious intent in the wagon against me.

My current pet theory on this game is that havingfitz was scum, my vote on him made Scumsibility worried and he wants to discredit me, and Sho is scum playing a different angle. These are very premature reads though.

i feel like

this

kinda stuff are very hard to fake as scum

[bacy]

Garuga, is your vote in 18 an rvs vote? And if so, why did you change it?

are you asking why would someone change an rvs vote?
this is a weird ques, and i think garuga answered something along those lines already anyways

[BlueBloodedToffee]

they seem like an awkward attempt for scum to seem like town for agreeing with criticisms.

What about it comes across as

awkward

to you?

On another note, I have my first town read!

VOTE: JJD

[TheRampage]

Padme made him supreme chancellor in the first place. And anakin was as annoying of a character.

What do u think of Shoshins Garuga read (and her vote on you) ?

While this is true, the whole reason for having Padme go on the run and not be in the Senate was so that Jar Jar could be manipulated into recommending emergency powers for Palpatine. Jar Jar was placed for that exact reason. But yeah, Jar Jar was annoying, but he played an important role in the saga.

Anyways, I think Shoshins is fishing with their reads. We have 3 pages right now and in my eyes, there really hasn't been any slips. I think Shoshin is trying to force a slip and is setting a trap. Still, I am not really thinking anything of Shoshin's read or vote on me. Their reasoning is very poor and based off of my first post, and apparently to them, everything I write is scummy. Possibly even this post.

[Shoshin]

Why couldn't scum do this? If he makes a bad post as scum, instead of trying to defend it and dig himself into a hole (thus making himself the first real suspect of the game) why doesn't he just admit it was a bad post and try to move on from it?

Scum "could" do anything... and especially in hindsight... this isn't a helpful way to sort alignments.

Jar, your "reasoning" is based on a misreading/misunderstanding of what I said.

The problem with Jar is that he's making his case on me before trying to understand my thinking. That's how scum play, not town.

These two posts appear to contradict each other - scum don't 'misread or misunderstand' a post, they misrep it. In 54, you seem to imply Jar is town and 'misreading' what you wrote and in the second post you're clearly calling him scum for it.

Two things. (1) Different audience: 54 addresses Jar, whereas 55 analyzes him. If I thought Jar had "misrepresented" me, I'd still give him the benefit of the doubt when addressing him directly.

(2) Scum "misread" all the time. The difference is this: When town misread, it's due to confirmation bias (and you can trace the trajectory of that bias based on how they developed the read throughout the game). But when scum misread, the bias comes from a malicious intent to paint a player in the worst light (unlike with confirmation bias, there's no trajectory or grounding for the misread).

Jar interpreted my meaning in the worst light without any grounding for doing so. Or as I put it in 55, he made no attempt to understand my thinking before deciding I was scum, which resulted in biased analysis (i.e. misreading/misunderstanding).

[havingfitz]

Garuga's town.

I was going to ask why but you answer that later. I don't care for your reasoning...because scum wouldn't call out their own poor posting?

Sho: Why do you think Rampage is scummier? The only suspicious thing I've noticed up until now is TBB's OMGUS vote.

Rampage's entrance has that trying-too-hard-scum-vibe.

I don't see anything try hard in Rampage's first post. Did you find his explanation suspect?

Why is 18 bad?

You don't agree with the points Garuga himself makes on post 18?
I didn't care for it because 1) there was nothing wrong with my rvs vote and it felt like he was trying to start a non-rvs push on me for no reason. And the fact he actually gave a reason for suspecting someone else but stayed off them.

Neither did Fitz - why did you choose Invisibility out of the two?

The wagon on Invisibility seems more viable at the moment.

If I had to guess, I'd say the three votes on Garuga's 18 were town. But those are very weak reads.

I disagree. I think there was some malicious intent in the wagon against me.

My current pet theory on this game is that havingfitz was scum, my vote on him made Scumsibility worried and he wants to discredit me, and Sho is scum playing a different angle. These are very premature reads though.

You don't give any really good reason for suspecting invisibility...and you detail a theory on me for why I might be scum...but then you avoid voting me because you think the invisibility wagon has better potential? This is twice you express reasons for suspecting someone and vote elsewhere. I'm still good voting you.

My current pet theory on this game is that havingfitz was scum, my vote on him made Scumsibility worried and he wants to discredit me, and Sho is scum playing a different angle. These are very premature reads though.

i feel like

this

kinda stuff are very hard to fake as scum

What in

"this"

is hard for scum to fake?