Mini Normal 2012: Tropical Mafia [Endgame]

[Jodaxq]

I have to agree with Jar Jar right there. I mean, you have seriously pushed for me for the majority of the game; and while I would appreciate being one less vote, I think it is fishy that with very little proof or reason, you would go after Jar Jar before me.

This kind of post is why I scum read Rampage. This post is awkward, defensive, and out of tune with the game.

[Jodaxq]

How do you still have Rampage ahead of me?

You're voting him, so I don't see why that's a mystery.

Oh this one really stands out to me. Why avoid answering?

[Jodaxq]

VOTE: Shoshin

Were you caught up at the time of this vote?

[Jodaxq]

More like Shoshin questioned the town read on you instead of the scum read on him. So it seemed like he slipped and basically said we are right to question his alignment.

I have no idea what you were trying to say during this exchange

[Jodaxq]

I thought Shoshin was.questioning the consistency of Invisibility's reads. I don't like that Rampage immediately jumped on it as a slip.

I think it's natural to assume that JJD is a townread for invisibility if he says that invisibility/shosin is not SvS and immediately votes shosin. why is there a talk about a slip..?

I'm with these two.

[Gustavo]

Got prodded. I will attempt a catch up today

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'll get to this after work today, apologies for lack of engagement so far.

[JarJarDrinks]

@TheRampage

u got scumreads/townreads? Would love to see u throw a vote down.

[JarJarDrinks]

I think it's natural to assume that JJD is a townread for invisibility if he says that invisibility/shosin is not SvS and immediately votes shosin. why is there a talk about a slip..?

Yes this'd be my reasoning for questioning it.

[JarJarDrinks]

How do you still have Rampage ahead of me?

You're voting him, so I don't see why that's a mystery.

Oh this one really stands out to me. Why avoid answering?

It's bad for another reason. He's actually misrepping me here.

He's answering as if I'm asking "What's so scummy about Rampage?".

But if u look at 131, what I'm saying is that he's said jack shit about theRampage so far while shading me the whole game yet he still keeps saying "Jar after Rampage"

[Mumble]

VOTE: Shoshin

Were you caught up at the time of this vote?

Yes.

[JarJarDrinks]

More like Shoshin questioned the town read on you instead of the scum read on him. So it seemed like he slipped and basically said we are right to question his alignment.

I have no idea what you were trying to say during this exchange

here's what I got:

invisibility makes his post where it seems like he implies that I'm a townread and Shoshin is scumread.

Rampage is saying that shoshin immediatedly questions the townread instead of the scumread.


not sure how that'd be a scumslip though.

[Garuga]

I have to agree with Jar Jar right there. I mean, you have seriously pushed for me for the majority of the game; and while I would appreciate being one less vote, I think it is fishy that with very little proof or reason, you would go after Jar Jar before me.

This kind of post is why I scum read Rampage. This post is awkward, defensive, and out of tune with the game.

I got the impression TheRampage is a VI from his obnoxious and grammarific typing style.

bacy and JJD seem town due to their willingness to scumhunt with well reasoned posts. I disagree with the direction Jodaxq is going into but I think she's town too.

[Shoshin]

I don't see how that's really strange, though. I feel like framing people being scum and thinking their doing things for scum reasons is indicative of town and kind of the purpose of this game.

You're very wrong about "the purpose of this game" for town. It's not to "frame people as scum," it's to figure out who the scum are. It's the scum who frame townies because the scum already know the alignments. Town follow the evidence where it leads; scum distort or ignore the evidence to tell a particular story. JJD distorted 46 to mean that I viewed 18 as scummy, ignored 47 (where I clarify the meaning in 46), and on that basis voted me for an "inconsistency" that doesn't actually exist unless you distort 46 and ignore 47. In other words, JJD isn't following the evidence where it leads, he's distorting and ignoring evidence to tell a particular story. And that isn't "strange" (never said it was), it's "scummy."

[Shoshin]

Why avoid answering?

I didn't get the sense that Jar was asking in good faith, and as I said in a post soon after, I wanted Jar to stop asking me pointless questions that were cluttering the game.

[JarJarDrinks]

You're very wrong about "the purpose of this game" for town. It's not to "frame people as scum," it's to figure out who the scum are. It's the scum who frame townies because the scum already know the alignments. Town follow the evidence where it leads; scum distort or ignore the evidence to tell a particular story. JJD distorted 46 to mean that I viewed 18 as scummy, ignored 47 (where I clarify the meaning in 46), and on that basis voted me for an "inconsistency" that doesn't actually exist unless you distort 46 and ignore 47. In other words, JJD isn't following the evidence where it leads, he's distorting and ignoring evidence to tell a particular story. And that isn't "strange" (never said it was), it's "scummy."

Any opinion on havingfitz also saying that you implied that 18 is bad?

[Shoshin]

This entire sequence lacks internal consistency:

I don't like HF's use of "wtf" - his reaction seems a bit over-the-top.

bad

JJD vs Shoshin is not SvS

VOTE: Shoshin

By voting me, Invisibility strongly implies that JJD is town.

JJD vs Shoshin is not SvS

Why is JJD town?

when did I say that JJD was town

But apparently Invisibility never read JJD as town? So the "JJD v Shoshin is not SvS" statement is bullshit...

not really?

i just said it wasn't SvS because it didn't seem like a scum and a scum talking to each other.

And when poked, he denies reading JJD as town. This is an actual example of an internal inconsistency, as Invisibility behaves as if JJD is town yet doesn't want to actually take that stance. And if anyone thinks I'm avoiding questions, take a look at this: Invisibility clearly doesn't want to admit what his behavior so clearly demonstrates.

Invisibility, what's your read on JJD? If the conversation wasn't SvS, what was it? SvT? If so, why aren't you townreading JJD? And why are you scumreading me?

feel kind of weird about him but that situation brings him to a townlean. it was either SvT or TvT but, given the people he spoke with, it was probably SvT

He feels "weird" about JJD... and the Shoshin-JJD interaction is either "SvT or TvT" but he's voting me?

VOTE: Invisibility

[Shoshin]

You're very wrong about "the purpose of this game" for town. It's not to "frame people as scum," it's to figure out who the scum are. It's the scum who frame townies because the scum already know the alignments. Town follow the evidence where it leads; scum distort or ignore the evidence to tell a particular story. JJD distorted 46 to mean that I viewed 18 as scummy, ignored 47 (where I clarify the meaning in 46), and on that basis voted me for an "inconsistency" that doesn't actually exist unless you distort 46 and ignore 47. In other words, JJD isn't following the evidence where it leads, he's distorting and ignoring evidence to tell a particular story. And that isn't "strange" (never said it was), it's "scummy."

Any opinion on havingfitz also saying that you implied that 18 is bad?

HF didn't say I "implied" anything, he thinks I said it was bad, period. So HF doesn't know how to read... is it indicative of alignment? I dunno. I'm suspicious but not enough to commit yet because a lot of what he's doing could just be how he plays - when I have the chance, I'm planning on reading some of his games to get a better sense of how he plays.

[Shoshin]

I thought Shoshin was.questioning the consistency of Invisibility's reads. I don't like that Rampage immediately jumped on it as a slip.

I think it's natural to assume that JJD is a townread for invisibility if he says that invisibility/shosin is not SvS and immediately votes shosin. why is there a talk about a slip..?

I'm with these two.

These three are probably town.

[JarJarDrinks]

You're very wrong about "the purpose of this game" for town. It's not to "frame people as scum," it's to figure out who the scum are. It's the scum who frame townies because the scum already know the alignments. Town follow the evidence where it leads; scum distort or ignore the evidence to tell a particular story. JJD distorted 46 to mean that I viewed 18 as scummy, ignored 47 (where I clarify the meaning in 46), and on that basis voted me for an "inconsistency" that doesn't actually exist unless you distort 46 and ignore 47. In other words, JJD isn't following the evidence where it leads, he's distorting and ignoring evidence to tell a particular story. And that isn't "strange" (never said it was), it's "scummy."

Any opinion on havingfitz also saying that you implied that 18 is bad?

HF didn't say I "implied" anything, he thinks I said it was bad, period. So HF doesn't know how to read... is it indicative of alignment? I dunno. I'm suspicious but not enough to commit yet because a lot of what he's doing could just be how he plays - when I have the chance, I'm planning on reading some of his games to get a better sense of how he plays.

So at least 2 people have said they think u said/implied that 18 is bad.

The whole reason u scumread me is because ur saying that I'm twisting your words. Do you really think someone assuming that "looks bad but isn't scummy" means that u think the post is bad is jumping to conclusions?

If you actually said 18 was bad, would you think my scumread of u would be justified?

[Shoshin]

I got the impression TheRampage is a VI from his obnoxious and grammarific typing style.

Why VI rather than scum?

[JarJarDrinks]

I thought Shoshin was.questioning the consistency of Invisibility's reads. I don't like that Rampage immediately jumped on it as a slip.

I think it's natural to assume that JJD is a townread for invisibility if he says that invisibility/shosin is not SvS and immediately votes shosin. why is there a talk about a slip..?

I'm with these two.

These three are probably town.

now these reads I like. Also think the Invisibility case is decent.

[Shoshin]

You're very wrong about "the purpose of this game" for town. It's not to "frame people as scum," it's to figure out who the scum are. It's the scum who frame townies because the scum already know the alignments. Town follow the evidence where it leads; scum distort or ignore the evidence to tell a particular story. JJD distorted 46 to mean that I viewed 18 as scummy, ignored 47 (where I clarify the meaning in 46), and on that basis voted me for an "inconsistency" that doesn't actually exist unless you distort 46 and ignore 47. In other words, JJD isn't following the evidence where it leads, he's distorting and ignoring evidence to tell a particular story. And that isn't "strange" (never said it was), it's "scummy."

Any opinion on havingfitz also saying that you implied that 18 is bad?

HF didn't say I "implied" anything, he thinks I said it was bad, period. So HF doesn't know how to read... is it indicative of alignment? I dunno. I'm suspicious but not enough to commit yet because a lot of what he's doing could just be how he plays - when I have the chance, I'm planning on reading some of his games to get a better sense of how he plays.

So at least 2 people have said they think u said/implied that 18 is bad.

The whole reason u scumread me is because ur saying that I'm twisting your words. Do you really think someone assuming that "looks bad but isn't scummy" means that u think the post is bad is jumping to conclusions?

If you actually said 18 was bad, would you think my scumread of u would be

justified

?

Who said that I said 18 was bad? You, HF, and who else? In either case, you were the first and HF is on my list of scum...

Yes, you were jumping to conclusions because (a) I hadn't said anything about 18 "looking" bad when you voted me, (b) 47 clearly indicates that I don't think 18 is bad, and (c) as you yourself admit, all my questions and posts prior to your vote suggested that 18 wasn't bad, so why would you assume I thought it was bad? If all my behaviors suggest 18 isn't bad and I never said anything that implies 18 is bad, why would you make that assumption?

I don't like the word "justified," because town don't (or shouldn't) think in terms of whether reads are "justified," but yes, if I said 18 was bad (I didn't) but all my actions suggested it was good, then a scumread would be fine (not justified, but fine).

[TheRampage]

I have to agree with Jar Jar right there. I mean, you have seriously pushed for me for the majority of the game; and while I would appreciate being one less vote, I think it is fishy that with very little proof or reason, you would go after Jar Jar before me.

This kind of post is why I scum read Rampage. This post is awkward, defensive, and out of tune with the game.

How is what I am saying defensive? I am questioning some one's read. I do nothing at all to defend myself from Shoshin's vote on me. I have not even voted because to me right now, there is no one that really stands out. I have this feeling like you have a little bit of tunnel vision. I think the saying, I could cure cancer and you would find fault in it, applies to you. I personally think your reason for voting me or find me scummy is weak, which is why I haven't addressed it, but now I will. As I said before, I think Shoshin tried to trap scum by giving a bad reason for voting me to see how I would react and to see how others would react. You however have some how developed an even worse reason to vote for me and are actually sticking to it. I feel like because you are a few votes down, you feel like you can try to direct and lead people towards my lynch, and you will then fall off into obscurity when I flip town. I have had a gut feeling about you since you appeared in the game, and now I feel more so.

VOTE: Jodaxq

[Shoshin]

Rampage, is this your first game of mafia?