Open 728: Sharing is Caring (GAME OVER)

[pinturicchio]

Zoronos I think me being cooperative with you started because I am townreading you (you remember my first towngame in this place), and even if we got different conclusions, I now got a townread on you, and that's good. What I don't get is why were you scumleaning/reading me in the first place; you started asking me questions before seeing that our conclusions were different, so what was first, the duckling or the egg?

Did I not explain that? I thought I explained that.
You launched into PR-talk / setup discussion before giving out reads, and your volume-of-posting early was focused there initially instead of the other posters. Basically it was the first place you enthusiastically engaged the thread (short posts vs long posts). Same for MathDino. I recall the_worst and HitAlt said something like it's not out of character for you and Mathdino, so I figured I'd lean in slowly rather than going full bore.

Contrast ruru who started the setup discussion but was simultaneously giving reads.
I could have sworn I explained this. If I didn't my apologies.

Yeah yeah you explained, but I wanted to know if you were aware that Mathdino did the same and you engaged only with me. I see you are aware; why did you decide to push me and not Mathdino?

[Zoronos]

I talked about that here:142 + 143. I realize that's a couple days and 10 pages ago.

I'm not sold on MD's towniness yet; none of his reads so far have been out in front of thread consensus. He's been going with the flow as far as I can tell. Which is a bit of a reversal of the position I had coming out of 142+143.

[Zoronos]

Which now that I look back, was also a response to a thought from HitAlt...
I'm not sure if that's meaningful, but I was trying to untangle the wagon on the_worst earlier to decide if it was righteous or not, and HitAlt was part of that system as well.
Maybe coincidence.

[northsidegal]

I mean let's talk. You usually don't talk too much, you just give your reads, but here you're talking, and I want to talk with you 'cause you have good early reads.

i'm not sure yet if the more talkative style that used to be me every game or the more concise "sit back" style is more effective. certainly the sit-back style has been mostly what i've been using my past few towngames, but i'm not sure if there's some kind of rule there yet.

perhaps there's no universal "best", and it depends from game to game.

@NSG you're pretty talkative in this game compared to all the other games I've played with you. Wanna jam?

i'm not exactly sure what that implies, but i think i'm probably okay with it.

Interested in if your jjh read progressed and in a Mathdino read

there hasn't been much to progress my jjh read, honestly – others have said that he generally obvtowns as town and he seems to be busy and hasn't responded to what i last said (unless i've missed it), so as of now it's another waiting game.

i had my thoughts on mathdino typed up in the beginnings of a post going over all of my scumreads that i deleted, but basically he's in the lower tier for me right now mostly as a formality. he hasn't had much of a presence as of yet and i know that's more of a sitewide thing than a "this game" thing, but i still couldn't justify townreading him as of now.

[pinturicchio]

I talked about that here:142 + 143. I realize that's a couple days and 10 pages ago.

I'm not sold on MD's towniness yet; none of his reads so far have been out in front of thread consensus. He's been going with the flow as far as I can tell. Which is a bit of a reversal of the position I had coming out of 142+143.

Yes I was talking about 143 precisely, I get that you thought pushing me over Math was more worthy, but why not both? Let me rephrase that: instead of interacting only with me, why not interacting with both? I think we would have a better read on Mathdino if you would've proceded in that way too

[northsidegal]

i guess there's something to be said about having the default being a townread and needing to justify

scumreading

instead of justify townreading, but i feel enough towny-pings from the people in the upper tier that subverting what basic probability would say (more people are town ergo any random person is more likely to be town than scum so a town default makes more sense) doesn't feel too bad.

[jjh927]

Oh sorry, yeah I did vote blackstar just for voting Zor. That was the face reason

[ruru]

Did someone say jam and post count

[ruru]

i had my thoughts on mathdino typed up in the beginnings of a post going over all of my scumreads that i deleted, but basically he's in the lower tier for me right now mostly as a formality. he hasn't had much of a presence as of yet and i know that's more of a sitewide thing than a "this game" thing, but i still couldn't justify townreading him as of now.

His activity isn't really AI right? I feel like his scum meta that I've read previously was like all power wolfing

Also I mean we're not wagoning the dinosaur d1 right like who does that

[pinturicchio]

@NSG playstyle effectiveness varies from game to game, absolutely. I'm playing absolutely different of what I usually do 'cause Zoronos started pretty serious and I had no time to be fluffy, maybe with time I'll get my chance to meme.

Here's a tricky question for you: Mathdino claims to be pretty good at reading you, which implies that he have read a lot of games where you've been and that he has played a lot of games with you too. Do you feel the same way? How good are you at reading Mathdino?

[Zoronos]

Yes I was talking about 143 precisely, I get that you thought pushing me over Math was more worthy, but why not both? Let me rephrase that: instead of interacting only with me, why not interacting with both? I think we would have a better read on Mathdino if you would've proceded in that way too

I mean, you're right. Benefit of hindsight.

Two reasons:
1)
I felt MD had done verrrryyy slightly more than you at the time I wrote that.

2)
I played a game with him a few years back where I felt he was obv-town really fast, because he was seeing basically the exact same things I was and coming to the exact same conclusions and typing the same thought processes into the thread.
A town indicator that I tend to use a lot early is to see if (without talking about it / blurting it into the thread first) people have the same thought processes as me; same thought processes -> same alignment.
I was secretly hoping that would work again but uhhhh it hasn't because he hasn't done much of anything. And now that I've said it out loud, I've ruined it.

I actually got burned heavily by misusing it recently; I forgot that I had written something already, so I mistook parroting for this tell and town-read someone I shouldn't have.

[pinturicchio]

Oooooh shit sorry you were not pushing him on purpose, that makes perfect sense

[northsidegal]

i had my thoughts on mathdino typed up in the beginnings of a post going over all of my scumreads that i deleted, but basically he's in the lower tier for me right now mostly as a formality. he hasn't had much of a presence as of yet and i know that's more of a sitewide thing than a "this game" thing, but i still couldn't justify townreading him as of now.

His activity isn't really AI right? I feel like his scum meta that I've read previously was like all power wolfing

Also I mean we're not wagoning the dinosaur d1 right like who does that

nope, i don't believe that it is – never meant to imply it was.

@NSG playstyle effectiveness varies from game to game, absolutely. I'm playing absolutely different of what I usually do 'cause Zoronos started pretty serious and I had no time to be fluffy, maybe with time I'll get my chance to meme.

Here's a tricky question for you: Mathdino claims to be pretty good at reading you, which implies that he have read a lot of games where you've been and that he has played a lot of games with you too. Do you feel the same way? How good are you at reading Mathdino?

no, i don't necessarily think it's reciprocal – at least, not yet. i need to learn from ellibereth because he has reading math down to apparently creature-levels of easy, but i'm not necessarily at the same point for him that he (claims to be ) at for me.

that being said, my only real game with scum!math is still ongoing, so i'm actually not all that sure if what i'm saying is even right – maybe i

would be

good at catching scum math, but i just don't know about it yet.

[Zoronos]

Oooooh shit sorry you were not pushing him on purpose, that makes perfect sense

No worries. It was a very valid question, and being transparent about it is more valuable than a 'super secret special tell'.
MD suspicion is my back pocket read; I wanted to wait a bit more for him to engage the game before pursuing it.

My current head scratch is the wagon on the_worst. Something about it feels off, but I'm frankly not sure what or even where to begin picking it apart.
Blackstar seems mostly legit but his commitment to it was pretty low; he hopped off to chase ofhrz for voting on him (I asked about his 'gross' comment earlier). He town read HitAlt so +1'ing HitAlt's vote isn't super surprising.
HitAlt hadn't really conversed with the_worst much about AI things (that I picked up on) prior to the vote, so it looked a bit like the read came from nowhere. He explained later, but I'm not totally sure I buy it.

I don't know yet, my gut doesn't like it, but I'm not sure which part or why.

[pinturicchio]

@Zoronos if you excuse me, I'll start reading that and other things in the thread now, since I think I've dedicated almost all my time interacting with you I'll let you know if I see something at the duckling's wagon, but I'm not good at reading the duck... I think I have a null read in almost all our games and he has always been town in those.

@NSG yeah same problem, I've only seen town!Dino and the one time I thought I caught him he was an innocent child, great job me! But there's a Newbie Game that finished not long ago where Dino was scum and lost in LyLo; I only read the LyLo posts, but now that is over I will read the entire game. I mean, I don't know if I'll get something since he claims he shouldn't be metaread, but meh

[Mathdino]

Why should I not be metaread? xD
I'm aware of my meta. I'm not at the point of being able to control it, but I'm definitely aware of it
My biggest problem is being gut read as scum as scum tbh
Like there's always 2 or 3 people insisting I'm scum by tone but it goes beyond paranoia when I'm scum

But I digress
Ofrhz still a good wagon, zor still town, NSG might be town, ruru town correct?

I'm not entirely sure I trust NSG on blackstar so I'll try to corroborate when I do my ISOs

[Mathdino]

I feel like jjh should be townier by now as town

I'm hesitant to waste time there if he's just gonna town it up later but I'm pretty concerned

[jjh927]

It's probably a combination of me not being able to be particularly active and you viewing my past day 1s through the lens of hindsight

Also I've hardly said jack shit in terms of reads

[davesaz]

@NSG I didn't

really

understand this until it came up in a game I was modding, but even mentioning the existence of an ongoing can be troublesome.

[davesaz]

Because I think your strategy is kind of optimal

solution: lynch all lurkers

i'm only half-joking with this, by the way. if we want to use the "let scum incriminate themselves" strategy, then naked voting lurkers up to a decently sized wagon serves to get them to post more while also not necessarily revealing the reasons behind a scumread.

I'm opposed to LaL on the principle that it picks up too many people who got jammed at work / school / lost internet etc.
Besides, I have better luck using it selectively based on meta and with an eye to motivation.
There is even a strategy of purposeful lurking to fish for scum.

[davesaz]

It's probably a combination of me not being able to be particularly active and you viewing my past day 1s through the lens of hindsight

Also I've hardly said jack shit in terms of reads

If this is you saying that you don't expect to be townread yet, have you noticed anyone who seems to townread you too easily so far?

[davesaz]

VOTE: Zoronos
Convenient, you're the person before me in the list and in the thread.

By the way, does anybody knows this guy?

Lol that makes sense, I think I got a little late to this site to know what Team Mafia was, I still don't know much about that.

So for real, tell me about dave? Is he lurking, active lurking, is this normal/abnormal coming from him, should we worry or is too early to know?

I think I've read him in another game but can't recall, but have a feeling that he's a strong player and a replacement this early is no fun. I mean, replacements are not fun in general, but dave has no content whatsoever so it would be like starting the game 2 days later

I think this is probably town posting.

[davesaz]

Oooooh shit sorry you were not pushing him on purpose, that makes perfect sense

No worries. It was a very valid question, and being transparent about it is more valuable than a 'super secret special tell'.
MD suspicion is my back pocket read; I wanted to wait a bit more for him to engage the game before pursuing it.

My current head scratch is the wagon on the_worst. Something about it feels off, but I'm frankly not sure what or even where to begin picking it apart.
Blackstar seems mostly legit but his commitment to it was pretty low; he hopped off to chase ofhrz for voting on him (I asked about his 'gross' comment earlier). He town read HitAlt so +1'ing HitAlt's vote isn't super surprising.
HitAlt hadn't really conversed with the_worst much about AI things (that I picked up on) prior to the vote, so it looked a bit like the read came from nowhere. He explained later, but I'm not totally sure I buy it.

I don't know yet, my gut doesn't like it, but I'm not sure which part or why.

Just to confirm, you're talking about HitAlt in the last sentence there?

[davesaz]

I didn't mentally track wagon size -- saw some comments about a wagon on the worst like the one quoted in my previous post, wondering how big it got.

[HitAlt]

I have no reason to reverse my scumread on the duck.
I'd argue we can see scum!Zoro more easily after duck really flips scum.
Pintu legit feels like town.
One scum in ruru/orcfz is probable.
Blackstra is likely town, and the ones who have poked/voted there so far likely have scum in them, looking for a potential mislynch.