Mini Normal 2012: Tropical Mafia [Endgame]

[Shoshin]

So like I said, there's nothing about that group of 4 people you named except for the fact that U scumread them?

I'm reading as scum, and I think it's likely that scum would jump on the wagon to lynch me.

[Shoshin]

Part of the reason I'm sticking on Mumble is because of how much defense he's receiving from people I suspect, and because of how difficult it is to get a wagon going on him.

[Gustavo]

VOTE: Invisibility
I didn't like his quick vote on JJD toDay, followed by a vote for Shoshin, the 2 people he said were not SvS.

can you chime in on shoshin's idea that mumbles making a reading mistake is AI which makes mumbles scum.

[JarJarDrinks]

Part of the reason I'm sticking on Mumble is because of how much defense he's receiving from people I suspect, and because of how difficult it is to get a wagon going on him.

Your case is bad. That's the reason U cant get a wagon going on him. Using that as a reason to reinforce your beliefs is beyond dumb.

[Gustavo]

Using that as a reason to reinforce your beliefs is beyond dumb

careful. he thinks calling his ideas dumb as a personal insult.

[Shoshin]

I can't get a wagon going because the players in this game have a different way of thinking about the game than me and because a number of players have expressed a preference to lynch others (e.g. Invisibility). But that doesn't mean my analysis is bad. In a different group of players, Mumble would already be hanging.

Also, let me clarify something - I'm not saying one thing alone makes Mumble scum, I'm pointing out a number of different things that increase the likelihood that he's scum, including his interpretation of 311, among other things, and it's when you take all the points together that you get strong reasons to lynch him.

[Mumble]

L O FUCKING L

[Shoshin]

The irony of all the people voting me but calling me bad at this game is that they're all voting town... and it'll be especially ironic if Mumble flips scum...

[Gustavo]

In a different group of players, Mumble would already be hanging.

not on this site in a game outside of the newbie que. Experienced players know the difference between mistakes and scummy behaviour.

[Shoshin]

In a different group of players, Mumble would already be hanging.

not on this site in a game outside of the newbie que. Experienced players know the difference between mistakes and scummy behaviour.

lol...

[Shoshin]

Gustavo, when did you start playing mafia and long have you been playing on this site?

[JarJarDrinks]

The irony of all the people voting me but calling me bad at this game is that they're all voting town... and it'll be especially ironic if Mumble flips scum...

This doesn't feel like somebody talking about a bunch of people that he believes is scum.

[Gustavo]

I have played mafia at least 6 or 7 years on various sites. I have played on this site off and on for 3 or 4 years. Took a year or 2 off from playing but still stalked games.

[Shoshin]

Experienced players know the difference between mistakes and scummy behaviour.

For some reason, you are struggling to understand what I'm saying so I'll try again until you actually start representing what I'm saying correctly.

I'm NOT saying mistakes are scummy. I'm saying mistakes are like anything else, a behavior to be analyzed. Experienced players who have any semblance of skill would agree with me.

[Gustavo]

so everyone who disagrees with you are town with no semblance of skill, yet I get criticized for calling you dumb and delusional? get the fuck out of here. I take back my apology.

btw, if I had no semblance of skill, i'd say 682 was a scum slip, but I will just assume you made a mistake when you basically called everyone voting you town.

[JarJarDrinks]

Experienced players know the difference between mistakes and scummy behaviour.

For some reason, you are struggling to understand what I'm saying so I'll try again until you actually start representing what I'm saying correctly.

I'm NOT saying mistakes are scummy. I'm saying mistakes are like anything else, a behavior to be analyzed. Experienced players who have any semblance of skill would agree with me.

Sure like anything else, mistakes should be analyzed. I've analyzed Mumbles "mistake" and think it it's not a BFD.

[Shoshin]

Gustavo, are you saying mistakes are NEVER scummy?

[Shoshin]

Experienced players know the difference between mistakes and scummy behaviour.

For some reason, you are struggling to understand what I'm saying so I'll try again until you actually start representing what I'm saying correctly.

I'm NOT saying mistakes are scummy. I'm saying mistakes are like anything else, a behavior to be analyzed. Experienced players who have any semblance of skill would agree with me.

Sure like anything else, mistakes should be analyzed. I've analyzed Mumbles "mistake" and think it it's not a BFD.

Yeah, I know you think that. I'm talking to Gustavo here, who keeps waffling on what he thinks and isn't actually clarifying anything about his thought process.

[Gustavo]

oh, you done fucked up now. I haven't waffled on anything. don't toss false accusations at me cause i'll own you.

[Shoshin]

The irony of all the people voting me but calling me bad at this game is that they're all voting town... and it'll be especially ironic if Mumble flips scum...

This doesn't feel like somebody talking about a bunch of people that he believes is scum.

While I suspect the people voting me, it doesn't mean I'm 100% that they're all scum - and I've already said that I don't think all of them are scum. When you have a bunch of people calling you bad, it kinda feels shitty and you want to say something about it - but that doesn't mean you're suddenly townreading everyone who is calling you bad...

[Shoshin]

oh, you done fucked up now. I haven't waffled on anything. don't toss false accusations at me cause i'll own you.

Alright, own me. Go.

[Gustavo]

sure, but first you have to show where you think i waffled. You can't toss out a false accusation without backing it up.

[Shoshin]

The misunderstanding is the point... it's an unnatural reading of Garuga's language and reveals a scum perspective. Scum tend to think townies are after them even when they're not, and that's precisely the mindset that Mumble's misunderstanding exhibits. So it doesn't matter if Garuga clarified and Mumble changed his vote. The misunderstanding is the point.

That’s the dumbest thing I’ve read in a while. Mistakes happen. People misreading things happen. I almost always end up scum reading the people who scum read me and I do it as town. Your original point has been disproven and now spinning it to something else isn’t going to fly.

VOTE: shoshin

Mistakes can't be alignment indicative? Or can they?

Why are you assuming that mistakes aren't indicative of alignment? Haven't you ever heard of something called a "scum slip"?

granted it's been a couple of years on this site, in general scum slips rarely happen.

I am actually not making the assumption that mistakes are alignment indicative. You are the one doing that.

The mistake is not alignment indicative, you want everyone to believe it is.

If scum slips happen, then mistakes can be alignment indicative, right?

I guess I worded my post wrong.

I am not making the assumption that mistakes aren't indicative of alignment, why are you making the assumption that they are?

looks and sounds better.

Okay?

Nobody is explaining why this isn't alignment indicative... saying it's not doesn't help me...

I’d suggest playing some newbie games to learn the ins and outs of mafia.

To quote a fairly famous quote.

“To err is human”

So mistakes can't be alignment indicative?

You have to look at the intent behind it. What’s scummy about misreading something, realizing it, then moving on?

I do that every time I make a mistake. I do it irl. I do it when I’m town and I do it as scum.

When I’m scum I dig deep and keep pushing the mistake even when everyone is telling me I’m wrong. I play stupid and keep pushing it.

Wait, nevermind. Mistakes can be alignment indicative ("have to look at the intent behind it").

In a different group of players, Mumble would already be hanging.

not on this site in a game outside of the newbie que. Experienced players know the difference between mistakes and scummy behaviour.

Oh, that didn't last long - we're back to saying mistakes can't be alignment indicative.

Which one is it?

[Shoshin]

Gustavo, are you saying mistakes are NEVER scummy?

And, of course, no answer to this...

[Shoshin]

Gustavo, what's your read on Invisibility?