Open 728: Sharing is Caring (GAME OVER)

[ruru]

I would think town.davesaz + scum.ofrhz => flip tw before HA

On second thought this doesn't make any sense

I don't remember what I was thinking now but I probably meant town.davesaz + town.ofrhz => flip tw

[ruru]

@ofhrz What do you think about jjh?

I think him asking other people why they townread ruru was towny

I remember from Open 721? that it was town who tended to push back when ruru was being widely townread

He also has the same scumreads as me

Not much else stood out

Hmm, I was about to case why ofrhz is scummier than davesaz (jjh defense + "in my last game / in a different context town/scum did X" is a really easy argument for scum to make and ofrhz also used it in one of her scumgames) but now I'm wondering does scum really type the bolded knowing jjh is scum

[Zoronos]

HitAlt: Was the worst bussing yesterday on JJH, even though he was the second vote? And was JJH counter-busing him (being the second vote after you)?
Why / why not?

Yes.
Don't know much about jjh, but I know TW wouldn't back down from a bus-wagon after people start to pay attention.
One of the reasons why I stuck to TW all of yesterday was to try and "keep the pressure on him".
While he doesn't crack, I'd still say his hand was forced at least a little.
I'd say his idea for a piece of basic distancing became a hardbuss solely because he didn't want to jump off anymore.

TW is still just likely scum.
And I'm beginning to feel like you are our best hope to actually carry this all the way through Zoro.
Mainly because NSG is now gone, and MathDino might be MaffDino after all too.
Even if I have a hypo-inno on him..(??)

So, let's say that JJH and the_worst were cross busing.
In such a world, do you think third scum is more likely to be on-wagon or off-wagon? Obviously the theoretical third scum couldn't have been on the_worst since that wagon was just you and JJH.

[Zoronos]

NSG thought it was possible the_worst was scum and he and JJH were engaging in a bit of theater, so your theory comports with her end of day inclination.

[Zoronos]

dynamic duo ended by the way math

Hey Math:
Why did NSG say this?

I originally thought she was expressing skepticism of your towniness (that is 'we're not a special buddy team this game anymore'), then realized during night phase that was the name of a recently-completed game.
So, why did she bring this to your attention?

[Mathdino]

We were comodding a game
It was my responsibility to end it and post the PTs and stuff
That had nothing to do with this game basically, we just happen to not be in other threads together

[ruru]

@HA When did you start townreading zoro?

[Mathdino]

The lack of votes on davesaz makes me feel good about this wagon

[ruru]

Mathdino should be able to meta townread me on my posting this game 100%.

Thoughts on this?

[Mathdino]

Me?

I haven't sat down and done that yet, no

Is that the burden I'm under in order to canvas votes

[ruru]

I'm curious on your stance on ofrhz vs. davesaz considering the most convincing reason you gave for town.ofrhz was basically that she made a similar post

And they have the same bad voting

[Zoronos]

Me?

I haven't sat down and done that yet, no

Is that the burden I'm under in order to canvas votes

Well, you just said bad votes, PoE, and associations, so, yeah, kinda.
Your case didn't inspire me to agree with it. I have non-zero latent dave suspicion so I'm going to work on building my own case / making up my own mind on the situation, but your case did basically zero to convince me to vote him.

You want me to follow, you gotta do some legwork or provide something convincing. I don't particularly care what form that legwork takes (and to be frank 'meta' legwork is the kind I'm least likely to follow, because of my viewpoint on the validity of most meta-tells), but what you've given so far isn't good enough.
Why are his votes particularly egregious and not just D1-town-that's-wrong. What specific association makes him scum? Why is his PoE worse than, say, HitAlt's or The_Worst's?

[BlackStar]

VOTE: the worstVOTE:

[Mathdino]

OK but here's the issue guys

You're not giving me an alternative to argue with

You're asking me to put in more work when I'm already the only one doing work to actually push scumreads

I might case dave, might not
Most cases are bullshit anyway
I literally caught jjh by a shoddy meta reason alone

[BlackStar]

my bad

VOTE: the worst

[Mathdino]

I don't believe ofrhz has stretched that far as she usually tends to when she's scum
Thus town until proven otherwise
Her posts seem reasonable and non agenda driven

[Mathdino]

Basically I've already done a metadive on ofrhz (and jjh) this game while I haven't found time to for dave

Hitalt and TW both strike me as townier by tone and higher utility/higher risk if mislynched

[BlackStar]

I don't believe ofrhz has stretched that far as she usually tends to when she's scum
Thus town until proven otherwise
Her posts seem reasonable and non agenda driven

I don't know about the meta part but I agree that she doesn't feel like she has an agenda

[BlackStar]

Basically I've already done a metadive on ofrhz (and jjh) this game while I haven't found time to for dave

Hitalt and TW both strike me as townier by tone and higher utility/higher risk if mislynched

Do you have examples of posts from TW that seem townie?

[Mathdino]

Call it a really bad soulread

He's a tough read and I'm not confident in my ability to read him post by post

I don't think he's definitively not scum
He's just townier than dave

[ruru]

Just so we're clear I want to lynch davesaz too if you're town

I don't have a real reason for preferring davesaz or ofrhz but I'm suspicious of you pushing one much harder than the other because they're in the same general bin to me

If jjh was designated bus, I believe in ofrhz town
If jjh was undesignated bus, you+ofrhz seems quite possible
(If jjh was not bussed, obviously you and ofrhz are town)

[Mathdino]

If you'd like, I can paraphrase the chats that led me to my profile on jjhs meta
It's honestly mainly "obvtown as town", we talked about it after I modded him and he died

So if you're building a profile on scum me, keep in mind I knew about his sortability prior to gamestart

[ruru]

Are you saying he would always be designated bus with you

[ruru]

Like, framer dying d1 vs d2 is pretty significant even if the player is readable

I'm not sure I buy into framer being designated bus in general

[Mathdino]

Sigh I get ignored every time I use the "a vt got killed last night" argument

I can also copy paste that argument

I've still never NOT killed a power role
I once replaced into a scumslot, shot an unclaimed doctor (when A50 was a claimed doctor), and replaced out the next day

I'm on record in scum PTs for trying super hard to PR hunt
So whenever I'm town and scum shoots a vt, I can claim town

PR hunting is my best skill as scum so I'm basically playing as well as I can as scum so when scum plays poorly I can get reverse BoPd as not scum