SUPP 2017 MAFIA: COMPLETE

[Srceenplay]

MOD: can you comment on pines statements? Talking about mod communication or pretending to talk about mod communication I feel is skirting the line.
Can we get some clarity?

[Errantparabola]

It's possibly borderline in regards to impersonating the mod. I'll ask it to stop right now but won't take further action.

[Nahdia]

well Pine is getting a 10.

Dunnstral is getting a 0.

[Taly]

The more people tell me my questions are "silly" or "fake", the less I view them as pro-town.

You think your question to DV wasn't "silly"? Explain.

No, I don't think it's silly. Otherwise I wouldn't have asked?

I already said I agreed with some points

DV

brought up at the time. I wanted to know what he was originally thinking before he made his post. 307

It wasn't the only initial thought I had about his post, but it was the question I wanted answered so I can understand his thought process more.

[Chara]

It helps town because it gives them information to plan around. Puts us closer to even footing with scum imo.

give me an example. i can't see what we could be planning for, honestly, but i can certainly see plenty for scum to do with the info behind the scenes.

[Taly]

@Pine

[Chara]

hi Nahdia! nice to see you.

i'm not reading anymore. going to the movies. love you all. <3

[Taly]

@PenguinPower

[Chara]

i suppose if scum really wanted to, they could figure out who's dying based on how everyone is sorting their readslists and affect things accordingly.

and i doubt Srceen's opinion on the matter is AI, it just feels like something he thinks is right and so would think as scum or town.
so i'll stop caring about that and care about other things... later.

the timing of the townreads on Brawl in relation to my own posting is something i noticed, but i don't know yet if the timing just corresponds to Brawl himself goodposting.

[Srceenplay]

It helps town because it gives them information to plan around. Puts us closer to even footing with scum imo.

give me an example. i can't see what we could be planning for, honestly, but i can certainly see plenty for scum to do with the info behind the scenes.

Cop doc watcher bg

[Srceenplay]

MECHANIC INFORMATION:
- Day 1 is lynchless and will end in 14 days unless a majority of players vote to end the day early.
- Between Day 1 and Night 1, a Ranking Phase will take place, wherein players send their rankings of players in the game in a PM to me. The ranking values are as follows:

{10, 10, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 6, 5, 5, 4, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0, 0, 0}

In short, 3 tens, 3 zeros, 2 fours, 2 fives, and 2 sixes. You can do this by sending me assigned point values or a ranking from top to bottom (10 to 0). Keep in mind that in accordance with SUPP guidelines, one of the tens is for yourself.
- All scores will be privately averaged and ranked. Ties will be resolved by # of 10s, # of 9s, and so on.
- The lowest two ranked players will immediately die at the end of the Ranking Phase.

Want to think about this later.

@ mod: by average are you adding total points and then dividing by 18?

[TehBrawlGuy]

How do I know scum doesn't want to give someone an all 0?

And why are you voting based on who gets votes by others? What if it was one of your poorly articulated townreads? Your posting is noncomittal and easy to flow with.

I feel like you don't get the point I'm making.

Say at the end of the day, the players that are generally suspected are A, B, and C, and each gets very low ranking points. If they're close enough, Scum can decide which of the three they want to save, and give that player higher ranking points, thereby choosing which set of {A, B} {B, C} {A, C} dies and flips. Hell, if the field's close enough, they could boost all three, and we might see a {D, E} flip, which is obviously awful. I would much rather we just all agree, to, say, give {A, C} 0s and ensure they flip. Now do you see why a mass 0-ing limits the power of what Scum can do by coordinating their own rankings? Scum absolutely are going to coordinate amongst themselves - it's naive to think otherwise. That's why we need to coordinate amongst the Town to limit their influence.

I'm ranking based on votes because I feel the loss of personal agency is worth giving votes a tangible value. Votes were worthless before I did that, and now they have a tangible value in controlling my rankings. If more players did that, votes would become more important, and we could use that to scumhunt/gamesolve/whatever. Enough players do it, and we have a psuedolynch.

Also, there's no reason to call my townreads "poorly articulated" there unless you're trying to be condescending or grandstand, and neither is helpful or necessary.

I’m not sure of the math but someone can figure it out, right?

Even if we all agree on who to give zeros to. Say we pick scum. If scum gave themselves 10 instead of zeros will that put them over the 1’s and 2’s?

It depends on how many Scum we have and how unified we are in giving 1s. If we have 3 Scum, each one can get 20 points from the other scummates, which is enough to beat a slew of 1s. We could theoretically defeat that by agreeing to rank everyone besides the 0s by the playerlist (i.e. 10s to the people below you, 9 to the person below them), but that makes our rankings entirely known and opens us up to role-based shenanigans.

Personally, I would endorse giving out all 0s to two players and making your other votes more or less random. It's very unlikely Scum can save anyone from that. The avg. points from other players each player would have if we did a full randomization is about 90, which is way more than Scum can swing. The odds anyone drops below 20 are pretty low.

[TehBrawlGuy]

wait this is an 18p game I dont know why I was assuming 3 scum, 4 is way more likely

if we give a lot of 1s and 2s to the same person, 30 scum points can absolutely beat that

[Espeonage]

That actually gives us a situation where dissonance is actually good for us.

Because if everyone has a solid mix other than some universal reads given 0s. We end up with it very likely those two die. I am however still worried about a vote swapper or set one players average to five.

:/ need to think.

[MariaR]

That actually gives us a situation where dissonance is actually good for us.

Because if everyone has a solid mix other than some universal reads given 0s. We end up with it very likely those two die. I am however still worried about a vote swapper or set one players average to five.

:/ need to think.

Whoa It's like I said this yet only now people understand

[Chara]

i really don't think we need to worry about it this much. if scum gives all of their points to someone who is universally scumread to save them, we can just lynch them.
and if we actually rank players properly instead of doing some weird pattern, even if the scum mess with things, the lower-ranked players should still be the ones to die, which is still good for us.

[TehBrawlGuy]

That actually gives us a situation where dissonance is actually good for us.

Because if everyone has a solid mix other than some universal reads given 0s. We end up with it very likely those two die. I am however still worried about a vote swapper or set one players average to five.

:/ need to think.

Whoa It's like I said this yet only now people understand

where did you say any of this?

[Chara]

It helps town because it gives them information to plan around. Puts us closer to even footing with scum imo.

give me an example. i can't see what we could be planning for, honestly, but i can certainly see plenty for scum to do with the info behind the scenes.

Cop doc watcher bg

read the rules again.

the ranking phase happens before the night phase.

[Chara]

and you may as well include 1s as an additional 0 to use, if you're doing something like this at all.
and there are 4 scum, they have 40 points max with which to elevate a player of their choice, not 30.

[Chara]

*if there are 4 scum.

[DeasVail]

Pardon the mistake.
I forgot to bump Taly up a tier. Apologies.

ACTUAL list:

TOWNIE TENS:

Chara

EAGER EIGHTS:

Taly
Dunnstral
ActionDan

SOLID SIXES:

Shoshin
MariaR
Espeonage

FINICKY FIVES:

the worst
Fire Assassin
DeasVail
Vaxkiller

UNFORTUNATE FOURS:

NicoRobin
ReubenWasFine

IN-BETWEEN THREES:

Srceenplay

TERRIBLE TWOS:

TehBrawlGuy
PenguinPower

ZOMBIFY THESE ZEROES:

Pine/TwoInAMillion

Hi Punreader. This reads list was pretty similar to where I was at that point in the game. Main exceptions are Chara's high placement (they're probably only a weak townread for me right now) and Pine being so low. So I'd be pretty interested in explanations of those.

@dv
So you agree with Nico, Reuben, fire, Espeonage all being higher than me?
You’re ok with being in the middle of the pack? I would assume a null read.


This feels like fake engagement to me but our are more than welcome to try and convince me otherwise.

The reads list isn’t exactly the same as mine was but the general gist is similar. As for your questions though, not anymore (I have come to think you may be town) and yes.

Why should I not be okay with being middle of the pack?

[Chara]

basically, i think we're better served going in order of our reads whilst deciding on some players that definitely need to go. if someone dies outside of that, it means scum decided to kill them with rankings, and it also means that the player would probably have been mislynched anyway.
if we go random after deciding on a few universal zeroes, it means scum could theoretically kill anyone they liked.
like me, for example. :> or any other more helpful player who's actually good at mafia.

[MariaR]

That actually gives us a situation where dissonance is actually good for us.

Because if everyone has a solid mix other than some universal reads given 0s. We end up with it very likely those two die. I am however still worried about a vote swapper or set one players average to five.

:/ need to think.

Whoa It's like I said this yet only now people understand

where did you say any of this?

this is exactly why I'm lying about my rankings as I said because of vote swappers etc
I doubt they can just swap vote totals cause that's outright op but I do think scum have stuff like Make player X's 10 a 0 or 0 a 10 to mess with numbers

[Chara]

i like the idea of lying about one's rankings so scum has more difficulty planning than just doing random rankings.

[MariaR]

i like the idea of lying about one's rankings so scum has more difficulty planning than just doing random rankings.

^^^ Chara gets me