Labyrinth Mafia (Endgame)

[the worst]

sigh

worst can you comment on why investigating this slot is a bad idea

it's an awful idea

[Shoshin]

Creature is OK but I don't think that flip gives much of any info without another scum flip.

The thing about lynches like that is they're traps if the gamestate is one where most of town is pretty deep and only a couple are being competent

It's not necessarily what's going on here but it begs the question of now necessary it is to eliminate that quickly when there's a similar scum equity lynch with far more information attached.

It's bad that you're defending Creature based on really scummy logic ("let's lynch the player that gives us more information instead of the player most likely to flip scum who we're going to lynch anyway at some point").

We could argue theory all you want but in actual practice scum push this type of logic much more often than town because at bottom it benefits scum much more often than town.

[the worst]

so Anka is good at town but (based on second hand meta) doesn't have a strong scum game. our interactions in the Underground have me reasonably comfortable townreading her and her posts here are making me more comfortable. if she is scum we will catch her later.

mastina is eh at town with currently sub par reads, and good at scum. if anka stops posting and Mastina starts posting and it's clear she's pushing an agenda we just lynch RC lol.

If she's scum we'll catch her.
if she's town she'll prolly be night killed before endgame.

it's better to throw investigations towards slots which are LESS likely to be NK'd, and slots which are more difficult to read. Taly's main strength is being able to force others to produce content, his reads are hit and miss but his scumplay is very difficult to tell from his town play. he's unlikely to eat a night kill, which means if he's scum we've caught a deepwolf and if he's town then we've probably locked in a lategame confirmed townie.

similar with Renais, and I wouldn't cop TPFKAP. if we hit like say 5p LyLo with conftown Renais, that removes the lynchbait from LyLo. and Renais is never getting NK'd hahaha

[Shoshin]

the worst, I've been asking you about Sajj since D1 and even voted you because of that, so stop playing dumb. If you're town, you're needlessly making this game harder by inciting my paranoia that you're scum and that's really harmful to the town at this point in the game when we really need to start working together. So, stop dodging my questions about Sajj, explain why you townread Sajj earlier in the game, and tell us your current thoughts on Sajj.

[the worst]

so Anka is good at town but (based on second hand meta) doesn't have a strong scum game. our interactions in the Underground have me reasonably comfortable townreading her and her posts here are making me more comfortable. if she is scum we will catch her later.

mastina is eh at town with currently sub par reads, and good at scum. if anka stops posting and Mastina starts posting and it's clear she's pushing an agenda we just lynch RC lol.

If she's scum we'll catch her.
if she's town she'll prolly be night killed before endgame.

it's better to throw investigations towards slots which are LESS likely to be NK'd, and slots which are more difficult to read. Taly's main strength is being able to force others to produce content, his reads are hit and miss but his scumplay is very difficult to tell from his town play. he's unlikely to eat a night kill, which means if he's scum we've caught a deepwolf and if he's town then we've probably locked in a lategame confirmed townie.

similar with Renais, and I wouldn't cop TPFKAP. if we hit like say 5p LyLo with conftown Renais, that removes the lynchbait from LyLo. and Renais is never getting NK'd hahaha

Nico if you wouldn't mind giving me your thoughts on this I'd really appreciate it

[Shoshin]

Nico, what're your thoughts on the worst?

[Reality Check]

Creature is OK but I don't think that flip gives much of any info without another scum flip.

The thing about lynches like that is they're traps if the gamestate is one where most of town is pretty deep and only a couple are being competent

It's not necessarily what's going on here but it begs the question of now necessary it is to eliminate that quickly when there's a similar scum equity lynch with far more information attached.

It's bad that you're defending Creature based on really scummy logic ("let's lynch the player that gives us more information instead of the player most likely to flip scum who we're going to lynch anyway at some point").

We could argue theory all you want but in actual practice scum push this type of logic much more often than town because at bottom it benefits scum much more often than town.

lol

VOTE: Shoshin

[the worst]

the worst, I've been asking you about Sajj since D1 and even voted you because of that, so stop playing dumb. If you're town, you're needlessly making this game harder by inciting my paranoia that you're scum and that's really harmful to the town at this point in the game when we really need to start working together. So, stop dodging my questions about Sajj, explain why you townread Sajj earlier in the game, and tell us your current thoughts on Sajj.

I've made it clear I'm not elaborating on Sajj for now so settle down? I couldn't d1 anyway bc Underground and I'm focusing on other things right now

If you wanna start a conversation on her throw some thoughts at me but I'm not in the mood to answer questions I don't wanna answer

[Reality Check]

that's not a rebuttal

that's a discredit

[the worst]

Creature is OK but I don't think that flip gives much of any info without another scum flip.

The thing about lynches like that is they're traps if the gamestate is one where most of town is pretty deep and only a couple are being competent

It's not necessarily what's going on here but it begs the question of now necessary it is to eliminate that quickly when there's a similar scum equity lynch with far more information attached.

It's bad that you're defending Creature based on really scummy logic ("let's lynch the player that gives us more information instead of the player most likely to flip scum who we're going to lynch anyway at some point").

We could argue theory all you want but in actual practice scum push this type of logic much more often than town because at bottom it benefits scum much more often than town.

lol

VOTE: Shoshin

good vote

[NicoRobin]

There is a problem with that plan, and the problem is that mastina is a good scum manipulator, so how exactly do you plan to 'catch her later'? She'll dance circles around us.

[Reality Check]

I'm pretty certain my vote was already there

but if anyone needed any more convincing that Shoshin is scum

that post is it

[Shoshin]

Reality, what're your thoughts on Random? Please respond to my analysis there.

[Scioness Sajj]

How many scum should we expect in a 15 player game?

you tell me

i think it's usually 1/3 or 1/4

p.edit please stop

[the worst]

There is a problem with that plan, and the problem is that mastina is a good scum manipulator, so how exactly do you plan to 'catch her later'? She'll dance circles around us.

Anka can be caught
Mastina probably can't

so if Anka stops posting and only Mastina is posting I propose we policy lynch her for playing to scum wincon.

[the worst]

Actually only 50% policy but that's a mechanically correct lynch if that's how it goes down

[Scioness Sajj]

There is a problem with that plan, and the problem is that mastina is a good scum manipulator, so how exactly do you plan to 'catch her later'? She'll dance circles around us.

Nico, how about we just lynch Reality Check if they live for too long?

[Randomnamechange]

i started complaining on day 1

This arguably makes Random even scummier... Scum often struggle to revise reads in light of new information because they're focused on keeping reads/behaviors consistent... and that would explain Random's unnatural hostility... Thoughts?

this is just bad

shoshin has clearly decided on stances and is struggling to justify them bc he hasnt actually bothered to read the game

[Randomnamechange]

also i am willing to take on the responsibility of scumreading mastina lategame

[Shoshin]

Creature is OK but I don't think that flip gives much of any info without another scum flip.

The thing about lynches like that is they're traps if the gamestate is one where most of town is pretty deep and only a couple are being competent

It's not necessarily what's going on here but it begs the question of now necessary it is to eliminate that quickly when there's a similar scum equity lynch with far more information attached.

It's bad that you're defending Creature based on really scummy logic ("let's lynch the player that gives us more information instead of the player most likely to flip scum who we're going to lynch anyway at some point").

We could argue theory all you want but in actual practice scum push this type of logic much more often than town because at bottom it benefits scum much more often than town.

lol

VOTE: Shoshin

good vote

It's a terrible vote. Hilariously bad. Like, here I am trying to figure things out, trying to get us all to start discussing our reads, offering some pretty thoughtful analysis on Random, arguing against the idiotic idea of lynching for information instead of lynching scum, and somehow I'm scum here? And it's a good vote? What the fuck, the worst?

[NicoRobin]

There is a problem with that plan, and the problem is that mastina is a good scum manipulator, so how exactly do you plan to 'catch her later'? She'll dance circles around us.

Nico, how about we just lynch Reality Check if they live for too long?

Good luck with that, lol. It'll never happen through conventional means.

[Randomnamechange]

Creature is OK but I don't think that flip gives much of any info without another scum flip.

The thing about lynches like that is they're traps if the gamestate is one where most of town is pretty deep and only a couple are being competent

It's not necessarily what's going on here but it begs the question of now necessary it is to eliminate that quickly when there's a similar scum equity lynch with far more information attached.

It's bad that you're defending Creature based on really scummy logic ("let's lynch the player that gives us more information instead of the player most likely to flip scum who we're going to lynch anyway at some point").

We could argue theory all you want but in actual practice scum push this type of logic much more often than town because at bottom it benefits scum much more often than town.

lol

VOTE: Shoshin

good vote

offering some pretty thoughtful analysis on Random

no you arent

[Scioness Sajj]

Also, I think it would be best to agree on a pool of players that Nico can choose from if she wants.

[Reality Check]

It's a terrible vote. Hilariously bad. Like, here I am trying to figure things out, trying to get us all to start discussing our reads, offering some pretty thoughtful analysis on Random, arguing against the idiotic idea of lynching for information instead of lynching scum, and somehow I'm scum here? And it's a good vote? What the fuck, the worst?

did you read the rest of my analysis relating to that or...?

[NicoRobin]

Nico, what're your thoughts on the worst?

He's a bud.