Open 728: Sharing is Caring (GAME OVER)

[pinturicchio]

Ok hi hello I'm back!
1. Zoronos you were right reading me like I was a PR; I had an awful D1 and tried to turn it back hoping I would be the nightkill by asking who should the Cop check. I knew I was going to be mislynchable, so the best option was that. Scumteam didn't buy it, I'm still here and here we are, about to mislynch me.
2. One of the reasons I don't like hypoclaims is because you have to stick with your hypoclaim as long as you can, 'cause if you don't you give info to the scumteam. Problem is, it looked like I had no good reads when in reality I wanted to push Blackstar soooooo bad this day.
3. Mathdino knows about that, or at least I think he should know it, and that's why I said a couple of times that he used mechanics in his favour: he hypoclaimed an inno on Blackstar, and I'm pretty much convinced that both of them are the scumteam.
4. About "pintu is scum and he knew claiming VT was the best option" uuuuh if I was scum I would claim Cop, I've hinted it a lot, and I would've said that my hypoclaim was false, that I checked Something Smart but I had to play along with Dino; in the position I am, a VT wouldn't be enough to avoid the lynch, so better go with a PR claim for my partner to carry the game. Saying that it was OBVIOUS I would claim VT is pretty much WIFOM shit.
5. I assume that I was rolecopped last night, and that's why Mathdino has been so eager to push me, since he knew I would claim VT and that I was the most likely mislynch for today.

So in conclusion: I played in favour of the Cop all along, and thanks to me he/she would have survived a night or two. I knew I became expendable after my D1, so I tried to make the best for town. Mathdino, instead, tried to push Dave, realized he would get attention on himself if he did, and went to plan A: lynching me. I can only assume I was the designated D3 lynch, but things went wrong and Dino had to reduce the lynchpool. That's why I started townreading HitAlt, but unsorted both the duckling and Zoronos after a while, 'cause there was some evidence to believe they could be partners with Dino, but Blackstar alone makes much more sense and Dino being the "town leader" (said by himself) he could protect Blackstar until the end of times. He has the alibi: "he has a 100% killing PRs on night", so what? Strategy is strategy, and this was a good one. I assume Dino already knows who the other two PRs are, so asking for a Cop check on him is useless: Cop will die tonight for sure.

PS: me being partners with jjh makes sense for someone? Have you seen my interactions with him? Have you seen when and how I voted for him? I was pushing his wagon since the begining; no matter that I was reluctant with my vote, that was a general rule I applied on D1. The important thing to consider is that I agreed with NSG since the begining and pushed as much as I could. I'm not stupid, that would be an awful scum strategy. I mean, bussing is ok and I have no problem with that, but that's not bussing, that's plain stupidity.

VOTE: Mathdino I think I'm already voting him but whatever.

[Almost50]

I may have mentioned being blonde irl once

You mean once every other page, perhaps??

[Almost50]

Sharing is Caring D2 VC #11

pinturicchio (4): ofrhz, BlackStar, Zoronos, davesaz,
Mathdino (2): pinturicchio, HitAlt,
HitAlt (1): ruru,

Not Voting: HeWhoSwims, the worst, Mathdino,

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch

(expired on 2018-06-21 21:15:00)

In a way; France is the best chance Africa has at winning the World Cup.

[Zoronos]

Pintu:
If I were just going off JJH associations, I'd say HitAlt or Blackstar would be more likely partners than Dino.
If you look back at the discussion with JJH, I asked him to give a read on Dave and Math around post 825 ish, then asked Math to give a take on the results in 845
Re-reading that sequence is part of why I pushed Math back out of my neutral bucket during mid-day today (along with Ruru's take on him).

What is your opinion on HitAlt?

[Zoronos]

I guess the associated question here is: Do you feel 845 was legit, or distancing by Math?
Also, soon after 845 was when the discussion between TW and JJH occurred that led JJH to vote TW and which NSG flagged as possible theater.

[Zoronos]

And by JJH voting TW I mean TW voting JJH. Because I am dumb.

[ruru]

if I was scum I would claim Cop, I've hinted it a lot, and I would've said that my hypoclaim was false, that I checked Something Smart but I had to play along with Dino

?

You already outed yourself as very likely not cop so no I don't think you could just claim cop

When did you start scumreading blackstar

5. I assume that I was rolecopped last night, and that's why Mathdino has been so eager to push me, since he knew I would claim VT and that I was the most likely mislynch for today.

You aren't the only vt claim, we could've just lynched HA

I think pushing you here makes more sense for scum if you

aren't

already rolecopped

So in conclusion: I played in favour of the Cop all along, and thanks to me he/she would have survived a night or two. I knew I became expendable after my D1, so I tried to make the best for town. Mathdino, instead, tried to push Dave, realized he would get attention on himself if he did, and went to plan A: lynching me. I can only assume I was the designated D3 lynch, but things went wrong and Dino had to reduce the lynchpool. That's why I started townreading HitAlt, but unsorted both the duckling and Zoronos after a while, 'cause there was some evidence to believe they could be partners with Dino, but Blackstar alone makes much more sense and Dino being the "town leader" (said by himself) he could protect Blackstar until the end of times. He has the alibi: "he has a 100% killing PRs on night", so what? Strategy is strategy, and this was a good one. I assume Dino already knows who the other two PRs are, so asking for a Cop check on him is useless: Cop will die tonight for sure.

I hope you realize how likely the dinosaur is to get copped and how much it costs for him to not shoot a pr n1 (and then there's jjh's claim to explain)

And blackstar is town so this isn't really useful if you flip town

So, suppose blackstar is town and the dinosaur is probably town. Who do you think is scum then?

PS: me being partners with jjh makes sense for someone? Have you seen my interactions with him? Have you seen when and how I voted for him? I was pushing his wagon since the begining; no matter that I was reluctant with my vote, that was a general rule I applied on D1. The important thing to consider is that I agreed with NSG since the begining and pushed as much as I could. I'm not stupid, that would be an awful scum strategy. I mean, bussing is ok and I have no problem with that, but that's not bussing, that's plain stupidity.

The only thing that really makes me doubt the jjh bus theory is that he's framer

About it being bad strategy, could you really have stopped the jjh lynch?

Yeah I get it, but I've been saying that jjh seams scummy since the begining of the game, since NSG's read on him.

I mean maybe NSG was lucky and pushed the right guy

, but his reaction in the early game was bad. But yes, I've not pushed him that much 'cause my reads sucks ass in this game because of lack of motivation early in this day and along midday too.

This doesn't sound like pushing as much as you could

Also wow this really sounds like tmi now that I reread it

I thought you said nsg's case was good, so where did the bolded come from?

[pinturicchio]

Woof so many questions, let me see:
1. Zor: at that point 845 didn't ping me, but I believe what Dino has tried to do this whole game is like "being the reincarnation" of NSG. NSG died, revealed VT, Dino has been saying loud and clear that it was obvious that NSG was VT and that he has been following NSG' reads the whole game. It's a psichological way to make us believe he's town by making us complete the blank spaces between "NSG confirmed town --> Mathdino confirmed town". So yeah, Mathdino going on jjh when he was being focused by NSG means to me that Dino understood that jjh wasn't having a good game and it was time to get some credit. Timing is important: remember Dino's firsts impressions on jjh? It changed drastically after some time.
About HitAlt: I think that if we flip scum!Dino it basically confirms both me and HitAlt as town. I feel he's likely in the same situation I am, so yeah sure he could be partners with jjh, but so could ofrhz or ruru, but we're not pushing them 'cause they seem to be town. HitAlt doesn't have that much towncred because of his tunneling on D1; same as me, bad D1 ---> push them hard.

2. ruru: I made enough crumbing to make a believable claim as cop. Not that I was going to do it anyway since I'm VT, but as I said, I did a good job playing like a PR. That's why I think I was rolecopped: if they were paranoid about me being a PR or a VT playing like a PR, they would rolecop me, push me if I'm VT or leave me alone and kill me if I'm a PR. Mathdino is a good PR hunter, let's assume that after HWS revealing himself, he has 3 alternatives to be the remaining PRs: me and the other 2 PRs. Even if he's pretty sure that the other 2 guys are more likely to be PRs, he has to be sure and confirm that I'm VT. I mean, rolecop would not be necessary for him if he has a 100% rate of shooting PRs, but being insanely good doesn't mean being perfect.
About Blackstar: he's been scummy all the game, but I thought he was doing the same I was doing (at 1180 he replied me that he thought of replacing out for the same reasons like me and I felt that as genuine), but his votes has been atrocious and without any explanations whatsoever; he's been sheeping whatever is going on that doesn't concerns him. I get it, you're still playing your hypoclaim, and I'm not voting Blackstar because of this, so I'm going after Math first. And I think you're wrong about Math, so maybe you should reconsider instead of asking me about other possible scums?
About the last part of your post: that's out of context. Blackstar was saying my vote on jjh was because of momentum and not because I felt he was scum, and I said that I was following NSG read on jjh since the begining and because of the reaction she got from jjh. You're nitpicking to convince yourself that I'm still the better option to lynch today. Me saying "maybe NSG was lucky" is equal to "maybe the case was bad but she got an awful reaction from jjh and that was enough to believe jjh was being scummy", so no, not tmi, not even close. And my god ruru, in that same post I'm saying that I wasn't pushing hard anyone because of having bad IRL days, "as much as I could" is perfectly fine with "not pushing that much", it's still the best I could do at that time.

[BlackStar]

I'm sheeping people, but that doesn't make me scum. There's a couple of different reasons for that. The main one is that I'm not strongly scumreading anyone. I mentioned earlier that I think there are 4 people who could possibly be scum. I've been having trouble narrowing it down further than that and I keep on flip flopping because of that. Its hard for me to read these people and I could easily see any of them flipping scum. The other reason I've been sheeping people is that things tend to go horribly wrong when I try to take control so I thought I'd just listen to other people for once because they probably know what they're doing. You said I've been "scummy the whole game". How have I been scummy this whole game? I'd love to see some examples. It seems like your scum read on me is mostly based on the fact that you scum read Math and see him defending me. That logic doesn't make any sense to me though. Scum teams usually don't openly defend each other and vote together. It doesn't benefit them at all and just makes people think there's an association between them. I don't buy that you actually believe this

[Mathdino]

ITT: "I haven't seen or read Mathdino's scumgame but he's an evil mastermind and planned everything from the start"

I'm unconcerned with this case. pintu is in a position I think where he

has

to scumread me. But thinking the game is solved with a pretty bow on D2 (to the point of wanting to run up yet another claim) is just unrealistic.

If it's me and BlackStar, it'll be obvious if LyLo hits and we're both still alive. For now, banking the game on the one niche scenario is bad play.

@pintu:

I could've had TW L-1 you and hammer you to quit your casing, but I didn't. I'm keeping you around so I can work with you.

I'm not asking you to stop scumreading me. You can shout I'm scum to the rooftops with your dying breath if you want. But there's no way you're more than 50% sure that you've solved the game with that one scumteam.

So I need stuff from you for the other 50% chance:

1.

I'm a VT. Who's scum?

I assume BlackStar going from your reads.

2.

I'm a cop and I actually have an inno on BlackStar. Who's scum?

3.

I need reiteration on your read on ruru and I want your take on ofrhz.

I wasn't there for all of 1859.

[pinturicchio]

I'm sheeping people, but that doesn't make me scum. There's a couple of different reasons for that. The main one is that I'm not strongly scumreading anyone. I mentioned earlier that I think there are 4 people who could possibly be scum. I've been having trouble narrowing it down further than that and I keep on flip flopping because of that. Its hard for me to read these people and I could easily see any of them flipping scum. The other reason I've been sheeping people is that things tend to go horribly wrong when I try to take control so I thought I'd just listen to other people for once because they probably know what they're doing. You said I've been "scummy the whole game". How have I been scummy this whole game? I'd love to see some examples. It seems like your scum read on me is mostly based on the fact that you scum read Math and see him defending me. That logic doesn't make any sense to me though. Scum teams usually don't openly defend each other and vote together. It doesn't benefit them at all and just makes people think there's an association between them. I don't buy that you actually believe this

Well I don't care if you buy it or not lol I do believe you're both scum, and yes, you don't want to defend your scumpartners for associations, but if you become a town leader and you protect your partner is perfectly possible and you can pull it off. Mathdino could, I'm sure of that. So "usually don't openly defend each other" doesn't mean that scum will never do it in any game ever. Same with Dino "100% rate of shooting PRs"; this could be Dino's great scumgame to get more range for future games.
Sheeping people is not scum by itself, I think YOU sheeping people has come pretty convenient since you've been under the radar pretty much all the game; sheeping + active = good. sheeping + kinda lurky = oh boy. That's what I meant by "being scummy all game"; if you want an essay on you I can do it, but I'm making a general point, not a post by post case 'cause I'm not pushing you right now.

[BlackStar]

I'm sheeping people, but that doesn't make me scum. There's a couple of different reasons for that. The main one is that I'm not strongly scumreading anyone. I mentioned earlier that I think there are 4 people who could possibly be scum. I've been having trouble narrowing it down further than that and I keep on flip flopping because of that. Its hard for me to read these people and I could easily see any of them flipping scum. The other reason I've been sheeping people is that things tend to go horribly wrong when I try to take control so I thought I'd just listen to other people for once because they probably know what they're doing. You said I've been "scummy the whole game". How have I been scummy this whole game? I'd love to see some examples. It seems like your scum read on me is mostly based on the fact that you scum read Math and see him defending me. That logic doesn't make any sense to me though. Scum teams usually don't openly defend each other and vote together. It doesn't benefit them at all and just makes people think there's an association between them. I don't buy that you actually believe this

Well I don't care if you buy it or not lol I do believe you're both scum, and yes, you don't want to defend your scumpartners for associations, but if you become a town leader and you protect your partner is perfectly possible and you can pull it off. Mathdino could, I'm sure of that. So "usually don't openly defend each other" doesn't mean that scum will never do it in any game ever. Same with Dino "100% rate of shooting PRs"; this could be Dino's great scumgame to get more range for future games.
Sheeping people is not scum by itself, I think YOU sheeping people has come pretty convenient since you've been under the radar pretty much all the game; sheeping + active = good. sheeping + kinda lurky = oh boy. That's what I meant by "being scummy all game";

if you want an essay on you I can do it

, but I'm making a general point, not a post by post case 'cause I'm not pushing you right now.

Bring it on. I'd love a chance to point out some lies and misrepresentation.

[Mathdino]

Some responses to specific things:

I believe what Dino has tried to do this whole game is like "being the reincarnation" of NSG.

This is largely accurate.

NSG died, revealed VT, Dino has been saying loud and clear that it was obvious that NSG was VT and that he has been following NSG' reads the whole game.

NSG thinks she acts the same as VT and PR. In reality her PR game is more like her scumgame.

It's a psichological way to make us believe he's town by making us complete the blank spaces between "NSG confirmed town --> Mathdino confirmed town". So yeah, Mathdino going on jjh when he was being focused by NSG means to me that Dino understood that jjh wasn't having a good game and it was time to get some credit. Timing is important: remember Dino's firsts impressions on jjh? It changed drastically after some time.

That psychological play isn't how I think of playing scum. Check my scum PTs.
jjh wouldn't have gotten lynched without the meta information that I had, and especially wouldn't have gotten lynched had I hardpushed someone else. My impression of him was consistent through all of D1. Unless you mean like my page 1-3 impressions, which ofc are going to change drastically later on.

2. ruru: I made enough crumbing to make a believable claim as cop. Not that I was going to do it anyway since I'm VT, but as I said, I did a good job playing like a PR. That's why I think I was rolecopped: if they were paranoid about me being a PR or a VT playing like a PR, they would rolecop me, push me if I'm VT or leave me alone and kill me if I'm a PR. Mathdino is a good PR hunter, let's assume that after HWS revealing himself, he has 3 alternatives to be the remaining PRs: me and the other 2 PRs.

I saw no evidence of you crumbing cop on D1. Most of that has been D2.
In this playerlist, my first rolecop priority is always going to be the worst, who largely subscribes to the A50 school of VT/PR fakeout play.
None of this explains why I would let the cop get a check AND let the vig get a shot if I already had 3 candidates for PRs.

Or why I wouldn't tell all my scumpartners to claim cop when run up. Or vig. Again, check my scum PTs. Some of you seem to think I play scum like I play town -- super strategic, kind of puppetmastery. That isn't the case.

No comment on BlackStar.

[pinturicchio]

So I need stuff from you for the other 50% chance:

1.

I'm a VT. Who's scum?

I assume BlackStar going from your reads.

2.

I'm a cop and I actually have an inno on BlackStar. Who's scum?

3.

I need reiteration on your read on ruru and I want your take on ofrhz.

I wasn't there for all of 1859.

More like 65% sure of both being scum, 80% you're scum with someone else, but sure, I can play along with the other 20%.
1. This would be the 20%, but yes, Blackstar would be one, the other would be the worst. He's the other player I've been suspecting long ago, because of interactions that seems off and because NSG being the N1 kill.

2. That would make the worst the best candidate to push, and the other between dave and ofrhz by PoE.

3. ruru is town and you'll have to believe me on that. She's the same town!ruru that played on PYP that wasn't scared of you and my stand on her is exactly the same: the only way ruru is scum in this game is that she's your partner, but I got over that. If you want like an actualization of the read, I don't believe she would push me as scum, 'cause after having a long scumgame together, I would get her in no time.
My take on ofrhz is basically that she will get caught by PoE eventually, so there's no need to solve that slot. I think she's town, but if she's scum, it will be easy to find out after two or more flips.

Give me something in exchange: I'm VT. Who's scum? I assume HitAlt from your reads.

[Mathdino]

Same with Dino "100% rate of shooting PRs"; this could be Dino's great scumgame to get more range for future games.

I don't think you're understanding.

As scum, I put an incredible amount of effort into ensuring that I shoot a PR every night. This is to the point of metadiving players and their PR games during the 48 hour night to make absolute fucking sure I know who the PRs are. When I can't make up my mind, I shoot confirmed town (I've gotten mocked for thinking shooting Innocent Childs is good play).

Why do I do this?

Because now, when I'm town (and I'm town more than I'm scum), every time a VT dies, I can say "LOL WASN'T ME" and clear myself on D2. I've pulled this argument before in multiple places.
Also because I fundamentally believe shooting PRs is good play.

In other words, I put a shitton of effort into playing well as scum at night, in order to benefit my towngame.

If this is the one scumgame where I've chosen NOT to do this, I've ruined that benefit for all future towngames.
On top of that, I've probably also ruined this game by not shooting any of the 3 PRs. Think about that. We're in 10p and there are 4 clears.
I'm not going to put myself into a losing position in this game on the offchance I survive to 3p with this WIFOMy argument, ESPECIALLY when that fucks over my future towngames.

Doing that won't get me more range for future games. It just messes up one of my "confirm myself as town" tricks.

[pinturicchio]

Bring it on. I'd love a chance to point out some lies and misrepresentation.

Do you think I will get extra motivation to do some job on you if you start with this? You're basically burying my case before I even start doing it as I said, I'm not focusing on you, there's no need.

[ruru]

You're nitpicking to convince yourself that I'm still the better option to lynch today. Me saying "maybe NSG was lucky" is equal to "maybe the case was bad but she got an awful reaction from jjh and that was enough to believe jjh was being scummy", so no, not tmi, not even close.

But you originally said the case was good

That's why I'm wondering if you called it good at first (even though you're later saying it was bad/lucky) because you knew jjh is scum

Also like, I do already think you're scum based on your posting, so I don't really need to nitpick about that

The only thing I'm not convinced on is you shooting nsg. So if you want me to defend you here, you need to convince me that you would never shoot nsg basically

[Mathdino]

1. This would be the 20%, but yes, Blackstar would be one, the other would be the worst. He's the other player I've been suspecting long ago, because of interactions that seems off and because NSG being the N1 kill.

2. That would make the worst the best candidate to push, and the other between dave and ofrhz by PoE.

3. ruru is town and you'll have to believe me on that. She's the same town!ruru that played on PYP that wasn't scared of you and my stand on her is exactly the same: the only way ruru is scum in this game is that she's your partner, but I got over that. If you want like an actualization of the read, I don't believe she would push me as scum, 'cause after having a long scumgame together, I would get her in no time.
My take on ofrhz is basically that she will get caught by PoE eventually, so there's no need to solve that slot. I think she's town, but if she's scum, it will be easy to find out after two or more flips.

Give me something in exchange: I'm VT. Who's scum? I assume HitAlt from your reads.

1. I agree with this. I wouldn't have copped BlackStar if I was hard townreading him.

2. I disagree with this. I don't think TW/dave makes sense. TW/ofrhz, possibly.

3. I do believe you on ruru. I just want to make sure you still believe it.
Could you ISO ofrhz and get back to me?

If you're a VT:
- I can tell you that VT-me would definitely chisel into BlackStar here. Not sure on partner.

- But with my inno, gamestate looks like:

Town: Mathdino, BlackStar, HWS
Obvtown: ruru
Probtown: Zoronos, dave
???: TW, HitAlt, ofrhz

If not you, I'd be lynching HitAlt right now, yeah.
Remember that unless I'm the cop and BlackStar is the vig (:facepalm:), at least 1 of those people is a PR anyway. Game likely solved tomorrow once the dust settles.

[Mathdino]

ruru, unless you want to start a dialogue to sort me better, I still think the pintu/Dino 1v1 is a waste of time. I really don't see another lynch happening. And if it's outside of HitAlt/dave, it probably triggers a massclaim.

I'm more interested in sorting ofrhz while both of you are still around.

[pinturicchio]

Same with Dino "100% rate of shooting PRs"; this could be Dino's great scumgame to get more range for future games.

I don't think you're understanding.

As scum, I put an incredible amount of effort into ensuring that I shoot a PR every night. This is to the point of metadiving players and their PR games during the 48 hour night to make absolute fucking sure I know who the PRs are. When I can't make up my mind, I shoot confirmed town (I've gotten mocked for thinking shooting Innocent Childs is good play).

Why do I do this?

Because now, when I'm town (and I'm town more than I'm scum), every time a VT dies, I can say "LOL WASN'T ME" and clear myself on D2. I've pulled this argument before in multiple places.
Also because I fundamentally believe shooting PRs is good play.

In other words, I put a shitton of effort into playing well as scum at night, in order to benefit my towngame.

If this is the one scumgame where I've chosen NOT to do this, I've ruined that benefit for all future towngames.
On top of that, I've probably also ruined this game by not shooting any of the 3 PRs. Think about that. We're in 10p and there are 4 clears.
I'm not going to put myself into a losing position in this game on the offchance I survive to 3p with this WIFOMy argument, ESPECIALLY when that fucks over my future towngames.

Doing that won't get me more range for future games. It just messes up one of my "confirm myself as town" tricks.

I don't think your towngames rely on only that, you're one of the best townplayers I've seen on site, so saying that not shooting a PR in only ONE of your scumgames fucks up your future towngames. There would still be a 99% chance that you're not scum because a PR didn't die, what's a 1%? You have plenty of tools to make yourself townread when you're town that covers that 1% that can make much more better your scumgame. What I believe is that this was your best chance to get a better scumrange after loosing your last scumgame in that Newbie game where CJ got you on LyLo.

[Mathdino]

Spoiler: @pintu (honestly others don't really have to read this)

How does it benefit me in this or future games to expand my scumrange?

Having a larger scumrange hurts you as a player. People will always be paranoid of you. I in part owe my towngame to the fact that I roll scum so rarely (and got replaced out of 2 scumgames) that my scumgame just never got real practice.

If you're saying that I would use this as an opportunity to show my chops as a scumplayer, sure. That was how I treated that newbie game. Those few times that I do roll scum, it's fun to show off.

But in that case I'd be showing off in terms of my play.
Not in terms of shooting myself in the foot by killing a VT-NSG, leaving all 3 PRs alive (almost guaranteeing the vig gets a 2nd shot and brings us back to evens), initiating a hypoclaim to publicise the 4th conftown,

hypoing an inno on my only scumpartner

, and nagging people to keep their hypoclaims in order to protect the cop.

If I were scum, regardless of my scumpartner, I would consider this a failure. There is literally no player here that I could see myself as scum with, thinking "You know, we really set ourselves up well!"
The damn framer got lynched D1 partially because of me, and claimed the lowest priority PR possible.

So yeah scum-me is showing off my scum chops beautifully in terms of play (my dayplay this game is leagues beyond my scum meta), but every mechanical and high-level strategic decision has been utter shit so far and scum-me should be ashamed.

[ruru]

Is ofrhz non-mechanically sortable in this game

I'm leaning town now, but in the "d1

guesses

reads" sense except it's d2

[pinturicchio]

You're nitpicking to convince yourself that I'm still the better option to lynch today. Me saying "maybe NSG was lucky" is equal to "maybe the case was bad but she got an awful reaction from jjh and that was enough to believe jjh was being scummy", so no, not tmi, not even close.

But you originally said the case was good

That's why I'm wondering if you called it good at first (even though you're later saying it was bad/lucky) because you knew jjh is scum

Also like, I do already think you're scum based on your posting, so I don't really need to nitpick about that

The only thing I'm not convinced on is you shooting nsg. So if you want me to defend you here, you need to convince me that you would never shoot nsg basically

I do think her case was good, I still think it was, and that's why I followed it. That comment was a "even if the case wasn't good", not from my perspective, but from Blackstar's perspective, who was doubting my vote on jjh.

If the decision was on me, I would've shot HWS, no doubt on that, and I think you know that, and that's why your asking about me shooting NSG. Like, outing PRs and shooting them is the pinnacle of my scumgames, 'cause they terrify me. If you want to know why I wouldn't shoot NSG in specific, I wouldn't shoot her if I thought she was VT, but I didn't know that (I thought she was scum at some point). But I do think her scumtells and towntells on me are off, so maybe I would let her alive to have some backup maybe?

[Zoronos]

Is ofrhz non-mechanically sortable in this game

I'm leaning town now, but in the "d1 guessesreads" sense except it's d2

I believe so, yes.
I am of a strong belief that ofrhz is town.

Also, I have an inno on her. So clearly

[Zoronos]

Also, Pintu, you're never going to convince math that he is scum.
Nobody is so cool they convince someone "Yup, I'm the scum /selfvote".
Maybe you can post him into a corner, but you do that by talking to the rest of us, not arguing at Math.

Anyway:

1. Zor: at that point 845 didn't ping me, but I believe what Dino has tried to do this whole game is like "being the reincarnation" of NSG. NSG died, revealed VT, Dino has been saying loud and clear that it was obvious that NSG was VT and that he has been following NSG' reads the whole game. It's a psichological way to make us believe he's town by making us complete the blank spaces between "NSG confirmed town --> Mathdino confirmed town". So yeah, Mathdino going on jjh when he was being focused by NSG means to me that Dino understood that jjh wasn't having a good game and it was time to get some credit. Timing is important: remember Dino's firsts impressions on jjh? It changed drastically after some time.
About HitAlt: I think that if we flip scum!Dino it basically confirms both me and HitAlt as town. I feel he's likely in the same situation I am, so yeah sure he could be partners with jjh, but so could ofrhz or ruru, but we're not pushing them 'cause they seem to be town. HitAlt doesn't have that much towncred because of his tunneling on D1; same as me, bad D1 ---> push them hard.

You maybe missed my intent.
845 was a condemnation of JJH by Math. Was that distancing? In order for a math theory to be correct, 845 must be either distancing or busing. You didn't really answer me about that.

Double-anyway. so, you think HitAlt is town. Let's move into the land where Math is town, and Blackstar is ???.
Based on your answer to Math, you believe that Blackstar + TW is the scum team. That would put them both on the bus, NSG's arguments about TW+JJH's discussion after 845 being scum theater correct. How does Blackstar tie into this? He was the L-1 vote after being on the HWS wagon. That would mean both scum were busing, the worst early and blackstar late.
This narrative would require that TW early boarded the bus, and instead of also joining that Blackstar waited until it looked inevitable (dave declared he was willing to be the -1 and Blackstar headed him off at the pass). Do you find this world reasonable or unreasonable?