Labyrinth Mafia (Endgame)

[Commander Shepard]

Does anyone know of any games Shoshin has completed recently or something I can get a feel from them on?

I have two recently completed games: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=76215 and https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=76303

Cool. That should let me know if my gut rings true.

[Commander Shepard]

Taly, do you agree or disagree with me that Random played a major role in causing a no lynch by softly defending Creature throughout D1?

nice leading question

also that taly summary is dire its mostly correct but does not include any of the most important points

What points do you feel are “missing”?

[Commander Shepard]

Also, look

TW

! I'm towning!

Yes you are.

It’s a shame I am on an away mission or I would town up with my kickass animations.

[Randomnamechange]

i'm not going to respond to someone completely lacking in reading comprehension skills

[Commander Shepard]

and you are ignoring teh fact that i didnt choose to wagon renais. because. i. wasnt. on. them. at. day. end.
bc creature's scum play was abysmal. and i wasn't defending him, i was saying that he *might* be town.
of course there is scum motivation there. in what way is trying to bully someone out of investigating you lacking scum motivation? Idc if you think there is town motivation in it, to claim there is no scum motivation is flat-out wrong.
the issue with the summary is it puts focus on the wrong area. it makes it seem like wheme is a townleader. it makes it seem like nico's alignment is up for debate.
bearing in mind i was directly involved with 3 of them and i directly suggested a theory as to why people went underground the last question is a bit farcical

???

If Creature’s scumplay WAS abysmal that makes him scum this game.

If you think his scumplay WAS abysmal why would you say that Creature might be town?

[Commander Shepard]

Taly, do you agree or disagree with me that Random played a major role in causing a no lynch by softly defending Creature throughout D1?

nice leading question

also that taly summary is dire its mostly correct but does not include any of the most important points

What points do you feel are “missing”?

@random Do you feel my reading comprehension skills are bad?

[Randomnamechange]

Taly, do you agree or disagree with me that Random played a major role in causing a no lynch by softly defending Creature throughout D1?

nice leading question

also that taly summary is dire its mostly correct but does not include any of the most important points

What points do you feel are “missing”?

@random Do you feel my reading comprehension skills are bad?

wasn't directed at you sry

[Randomnamechange]

Taly, do you agree or disagree with me that Random played a major role in causing a no lynch by softly defending Creature throughout D1?

nice leading question

also that taly summary is dire its mostly correct but does not include any of the most important points

What points do you feel are “missing”?

I don't think

Random

solely caused a no lynch

But after skimming, I definitely want to hear why

Renais

was a much better wagon and push than

Creature

. There were multiple D1 posts from him where he debated the possibility of

Creatue

scum but never did anything to generate a conclusion.

So if

Creature's

scum,

Random

and

Angel

are looking a lot less towny in my eyes. If

Creature's

town, I still want to see why

Angel

went for

Nico

and why

Random

seems blatantly inconsistent.

1593 and 1594 resolve a good bit of my uncertainty on Reality. I don't think scum would necessarily state the reasons for why an investigation on them would be unnecessary, and their post rings to me as genuine.

I don't follow... If Reality's scum, wouldn't they want to avoid an investigation?

I think it's more likely scum would not oppose an investigation on themselves, if it meant they wouldn't be suspected or other people would become a better option.

Why would town want to be investigated if they can defend themselves and state why they're town? Hence their confidence because they're correct?

I just find town-motivation in that post of

Reality

more as,

"don't waste an investigation on me, and here's better alternatives"

- she wasn't avoiding the idea of investigating her, nor was she deflecting from the conversation by not adding a reason.

So I think that's more towny.

Taly, do you agree or disagree with me that Random played a major role in causing a no lynch by softly defending Creature throughout D1?

nice leading question

also that taly summary is dire its mostly correct but does not include any of the most important points

Instead of saying things "are dire" without any concrete reason, how about you INCLUDE the most important points yourself and actually expand on the conversation?

My POV of this game is very blurry and I'm actively resolving that.

a) i didnt finish the day with my vote on renais
b) why would scum defend creature
c) this point is not something that should ever be used to argue someone is town. Scum as a rule want to avoid being investigated. sure, argue town want to as well but it is ridiculous to claim town want to avoid being investigated more than scum
d)nico/nancy, me vs shoshin from the perspective of the 1v1 not an irrelevant player's read, underground yesterday, RC vs shoshin, cases/wagon on tpfkap

see D

[Taly]

i'm not going to respond to someone completely lacking in reading comprehension skills

I'm a bit tired of being written off as dumb or "lacking in comprehension skills" in literally most of my games.

I actually think I'm doing better in this game than other games in terms of not "doing nothing but surface-level" shit

But w/e, if you want to ignore all the points I brought up, and what

Shoshin

brought up herself, by all means go ahead.

Scumread created.

[Commander Shepard]

Taly, do you agree or disagree with me that Random played a major role in causing a no lynch by softly defending Creature throughout D1?

nice leading question

also that taly summary is dire its mostly correct but does not include any of the most important points

What points do you feel are “missing”?

@random Do you feel my reading comprehension skills are bad?

wasn't directed at you sry

Then I would love an answer to the question. And the one above.

[Commander Shepard]

Sorry my AI didn’t keep up with posts @random

[Randomnamechange]

OK lets play spot the bullshit!

[Commander Shepard]

OK lets play spot the bullshit!

You go first and show me some bullshit. My away mission will take some time.

Show me where you think bullshit is.

[Randomnamechange]

and you are ignoring teh fact that i didnt choose to wagon renais. because. i. wasnt. on. them. at. day. end.

oh right, you were bussing

tgkfap

guess that completely eliminates all relevance from these posts?

aight yo wassup g's im here now talk to me
creature could be scum but seems kinda lynchabity nowatimsayin

sounds gucci to me
VOTE: princess of renais

Acutally, agreed. I have doubts on creature, but they can be solved later on.

VOTE: renais

VOTE: Creature

one of these two votes is probably scum depending on the renais flip imo.

Like, you make the least conclusive read possible on

Creature

by shading him with

"this could be scum, but

renais

looks like a less mislychbaity lynch"

- even though I'd argue the exact opposite, because people have consistently stated

Renais

is scummy and now

GIF

, but nobody wants to tie the noose on

Creature

Seriously, I'm all asking is why

Renais

was more likely scum than

Creature

, and you keep tip-toeing around the fact that you made no actual conclusion on

Creature

D1.

bc creature's scum play was abysmal. and i wasn't defending him, i was saying that he *might* be town.

Again, you don't actually state a solid read there but you're actively not going for his lynch or engaging with the wagon on him...

And what do you mean

"

creature's

scumplay is abysmal"

? Um? His play here is abysmal by his standards?

And why do yuo keep saying he "might" be town? Are you waiting for him to make this holy grail post that absolves all suspicion on him? Because that hasn't happened and we're close to this game being a month old.

of course there is scum motivation there. in what way is trying to bully someone out of investigating you lacking scum motivation? Idc if you think there is town motivation in it, to claim there is no scum motivation is flat-out wrong.

Seeing motivation in someone's post IS SUBJECTIVE.

So go on, tell me why my perception is wrong and tell me why

Reality

is more likely to be scum for her recent posts.

And also, wtf? "Bullying"? Are you reading the thread? There is absolutely nothing that suggests this.

the issue with the summary is it puts focus on the wrong area. it makes it seem like wheme is a townleader. it makes it seem like nico's alignment is up for debate
bearing in mind i was directly involved with 3 of them and i directly suggested a theory as to why people went underground the last question is a bit farcical

I'm asking for your damn opinion and you're ignoring that.

Have you read my catchup post? I haven't been engaged with the game because I lost a lot of motivation.

So yeah, please enlighten me on the importance of what you listed, and try to indirectly undermine my posts less. -_- I never said anything else was unnecessary, I gave MY perception of the game and your comments sound like you're actively looking to diminish that.

but real talk

Chickadee

, what's your thoughts on

Renais, Tgkfap, Nico

they were people ive scumread D1 ((thinking

Nico

is more town based on interactions with who I think is scum, still scumreading

tgkfap

, and I'm iffy on

GIF/Renais

)) and im worried that im getting tunnel vision on these people

Well, I'll refrain from commenting on tpfkap, because Porkens is my predecessor, and I honestly have no clue wtf he was doing. He always has a weird play style that people scum read, and I've never quite been able to get inside his head.

Gonna be honest, here's what I've done so far since getting my role pm: I took a shower, ate some lunch, ISO'd my slot, ISO'd the mod to get highlights, checked in with my neighborhood, Saw that Creature was being scum read and ISO'd him.

So that's where I'm at. I can't really give any well formed or even ill formed thoughts on the Nico and Renais slots at the moment, but I'll hit you up later.

wait wtf

did yuo repalce

tgkfap

? Just saw that they haven't posted in 6 days.

And alright, I'm going to ISO dive

GIF

Tuesday as well

point 1: sass aint gonna work on me
point 2: TBG's case on renais was better in my opinion than the cases on creature. ever heard of a nullread? and in what world are people not wanting to hang creature? if people have consistently been calling Renais scum then renais is the one that your point applies to not creature
point 3: i've been saying he was scum for the entire dayphase basically. i was referring to my position yesterday.
point 4: its like you aren't even reading my fucking posts. you claimed that town are more likely to try to push investigations off of themselves than scum. i pointed out that that was transparently bullshit. i at no point implied that RC was scum. i was simply pointing out that that was an abysmal reason to townread them. and motivation that you read into a post is subjective, but your original post was theorycrafting and OBJECTIVELY judging the motivation that their post

could

have had.
point 5: either read the thread or ISO me because my answers to those things are pretty transparent. your perception of the game was flat out wrong in multiple cases due to disengagement.
point 6: aaaand you aren't even checking people's slots before engaging them which is p scummy behaviour

[GuyInFreezer]

AA9 I don't think I've ever gone into

AA9 is playing like exactly how AA9-town would play when encountered a trolling/weird role.

[GuyInFreezer]

point 2: TBG's case on renais

By case you mean "this needs to die even if it's town" right

[GuyInFreezer]

Scioness Sajj is very close to obvtown

I actually disagree with this.

If that ability in Day 1 was scum ability and the targets were picked by the user, SS is very close to be scum.

[Randomnamechange]

Taly, here's my problem. My vote on creature is basically a gut thing. Something "feels" off, but I can't say "in Post x, line y, Creature said z" which points to it. I'm not heavily committed for that reason.

Renais is the result of hooking a dice roller up to a dictionary, and I would vote her just to get it to stop, except for the fear of flipping town.

I'd have said Nico for active lurking, since Nico's posts still have not included value.

And yeah. The pointless antagonism from Wheme is having a negative effect on me and my interest in this game, I will admit.

Unless you want her alive to lategame/endgame, you gotta bite the bullet and do it. There's no guarantee we have a killing role to deal with her, and if we do lynch her, it's way better to do it early, both if she's Town and if she's Scum. If you don't think she's going to post AI content, then you gain nothing on your ability to read her by waiting.

If she's Town: Better to burn the mislynch D1 when we have the least info to go off of anyway, rather than on a day like D4 when we presumably all have good scumtargets. Killing her early also removes the distraction and debate of PLing her vs. lynching the scummiest players.

If she's Scum: We'd have to lynch her to win anyway, and we get a flipped Scum player to draw reads off of D1.

Like, I can get on board with Creature being Scum, but my ability to read him is only going to get better as the game goes on, and it's not for the players like Renais that are posting osusnly fluff. Plus, the fact that I'm the only person on her despite a lot of lukewarm suspicion absolutely reads to me like the scumteam is protecting her.

yeah thats a fair interpretation ig

[GuyInFreezer]

btw I would call Renais town even if I didn't replace her slot.

[WhemeStar]

Wheme can tyou explain Random/Shoshin scum-scum?

Idk maybe randoms town

[WhemeStar]

I’m just lost

Dogs > cats

[WhemeStar]

This game lost me with all of the posts that were the size of Everest

[Scioness Sajj]

wheme, how do you feel about replacements?

[Commander Shepard]

Wheme can tyou explain Random/Shoshin scum-scum?

Idk maybe randoms town

Maybe Radiant Cowbells is town.

[Scioness Sajj]

Re: Nancy - go back and look at how I came to townread Nancy - it was back when she wasn't obt town to anyone.

your point? do you expect to be townread because you have townread somebody? you have started interacting with her because she was considering you to be scum.

Re: convincing Nancy you're scum - I'd never try convincing anyone of something unless I had a pretty high degree of certainty about it - in particular because I like people to form their own views without my influence because that makes it more likely for them to catch things I'm missing plus it makes it more easy for me to read them - towns already struggle enough to avoid confirmation biasing and I hate adding to that unless I'm really sure about what I'm saying (e.g. with Random).

You have put your vote on me, you were surprised that Taly didn't get your vote, was that all for lols? Meh, what you wrote there is true if you didn't really scumread me at that time but in your next replay you said you did so I'm lost.
If you don't want to influence people you shouldn't post itt. I'm pretty sure people are more likely to get influenced indirectly than directly. I get why you wouldn't want to do that if you were already townreading Nancy but it happened before.

Re: interactions and hostility - I'm new to this site but I can tell you the town meta here is very weak compared with others in large part because towns don't work together - if people stopped trying to be the lone hero and instead put some faith in the collective intelligence of town, we'd get a lot more done.

Problems don't solve itself, if you are not trying to solve the problem then you are a part of it.

It's good to know you're new - that would explain why you're paranoid about me - the experienced players (particularly Reality) should know better.

Never said I'm new?