Mini 2018 - American Presidents Mafia (Game Over)

[Shoshin]

initial ping was his treatment of Shoshin thru rvs/early game. also got the feeling he's avoiding town hunting and leaving avenues open for later. haven't really seen anything in there that screams town to me so far.

Talking about Key? I get why thinking about the game in terms of what's possible instead of what's probable feels scummy, but coupled with Key's genuinely inquisitive tone it actually feels pretty town to me. I also thought he was genuinely confused by my early play in a way that scum wouldn't openly admit, and I also get the sense that Key was genuinely excited about getting into the scumhunting part of the game so quickly.

[Shoshin]

I am very happy I am not being mass town read (so kinda liking Irrelephant11’s against-the-grind suspicion).

Also, this feels town. Yes, scum fake this sort of thing. But Key? Unlikely.

[the worst]

mmkay interesting. do you have experience with key?

[Shoshin]

No.

[stungun0404]

Stun, can you explain your transition from suspecting me to a townlean to hardtown?

your content seems hard for scum to duplicate; little-to-no scum incentive for scum to play like you have so far, especially on d1. your aggressive act making a splash early on, your willingness to reconsider perspectives, etc.

i mean the list goes on and on, and it makes me question why would you be scum in this game? to which, i can’t gather an answer to

who can possibly townread momrangal right now? totally nai imho, and way too quick to jump to a townread there. convince me

[stungun0404]

also looked over an iso of another game shoshin played as scum and town, and it reinforced my town view of her

[stungun0404]

@stungun I like Shoshin, you, Bernie, Mom, and Mathdino for town so far, in that order. None of them are particularly strong because few players have said a ton. I was voting you for pressure because it seemed to rattle you, but the rattling had a towniness as it went on.

I feel like conventional wisdom says Keyser is playing in a towny way, but none of the things he’s saying actually feel genuine? To put it another way, his play fits in a town box, but almost seems too perfectly shaped for it. I’m not saying he’s scummy yet, just that I haven’t seen enough to sort.

Pedit: math what are you saying about me there?

4 of those reads are fair, but what about momrangal’s 5 posts suggests town to you?

same with shoshin, what about momrangal rings you as town?

[stungun0404]

continuing with the questions to all. note that i will take note of anybody who dodges my questions but continues to lurk and produce little content, because that usually has more scum incentive than town incentive.

@momrangal: i see you answered shoshin’s question about having thoughts on players outside of invis, but you never addressed them, so can you address them now? particularly want to see townreads from you.
my answer: i have no answer, i think i have provided thoughts on just about everyone.

@shoshin: my question for you is above, why do you townread momrangal?
my answer: their content so far would be extremely easy for scum to hide behind and skate to a victory with if kept up, so i definitely can’t give them even a townlean yet.

[skitter30]

ok, what makes invis different, than, say, nauci?

I don't know if it's fair to classify him as active lurking hours into the game when he has more game-related content than many players.

You think he has game related content?

They are different because one has a far more serious tone than the other. One has a more tryhard feel than the other and one is clearly trying to seem more useful than the other.

The definition of active lurking is basically posting empty posts trying to look like you're making content when you aren't

Yes, I know what active lurking is. I don't know if the way he's been posting is inherently AI for him.

I don't think either of them has been 'serious' or 'tryhard' or 'trying to seem useful'.

Invisibility was talking about the me/shoshin thing and was talking about the previous game he had played with shoshin, while all of nauci's posts at this time were RVS and math's rapping, so I think nauci at this point fits the category of 'active lurkinig' better than invisibility did (although I object to that term being applied to anyone at that point of the game in general)

Actual I went back to reread all their posts up to this point and I'm just going to note that invisibility was incidentally voting you at the time you voted him.

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Maybe you had flashbacks..? Did you or didn’t you?

No, Skitter’s response to Shoshin was honestly fine

I don’t like Skitter’s *feel*, though. I’ll explain more later after my read stays the same or changes

You should sheep me though

I don't know what *feel* means

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I'm not quite ready to say why you should vote Stun but you should. Irrelephant has the idea.

why stun?

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what are your thoughts on me, shoshin? you never provided them.

catching up as is with the other questions, but do address your feeling on me before asking and even inciting others to do so. otherwise, it just looks like you are trying to take advantage of a wagon forming on a me, which i feel only a scumplayer would have incentive to do. looks like you are doing the utmost in an attempt to “look town” right now

What do you mean by 'trying to take advantage of a wagon forming on me'? She started the wagon so it makes sense to me that she'd try to get other people to try to join it; I don't think that's scum-motivated. I don't know how you can 'try to take advantage of a wagon forming' when you started the wagon and are trying to make it a thing. I don't think that's trying to 'look town' either.

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Feeling currently like Shoshin/Stungun/math has at most one mafiosa. Keyser/stungun/skitter could have as many as THREE but probably not more than like 1.5.

how did you determine these groups?

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I don’t like the transition here at all; shoshin goes from obsessing over skitter’s townread of mathdino to later asking what there isn’t to like about mathdino’s play; it seems like a very strange transition to make in a matter of hours with no explicit townread or townle on mathdino for the slot, so this makes its way onto my scumdar. These questions seem like their fishing for scummy responses to take advantage of

I'm not townreading math.

I think that asking what someone else doesn't like about math doesn't imply that she herself doesn't like math.

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he was defending him, so i take it that it was something of a townread or sth. i didn’t feel like looking back, so i went off my memory

a) she

b) I was pointing out that she was msireading math's RVS post. It didn't imply a townread.

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gemini feels like really bland boring scum

I read town!her like that in Newbie 1872 last week, and was very very very wrong, so idk if posting like that is a scumtell for her.

note to self: suspicious of Math if he doesn't comment on this.

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Hmm, I like that Stun came around on me. Not sure he'd do that as scum.

I mean, if he's scum and you're town he could be trying to appease you and get you off his case by trying to townread you.

ok this is getting long, so starting a new post here

[stungun0404]

apologies for the wrong pronoun, skitter. i think it’s natural to assume someone’s a ‘he’ until, you know, they’re not.

but i will say i’m not feeling that you, skitter, are townreadable right now either. not seeing a clear pro-town focus to your above analysis, but i’ll give you time to settle in and analyze more to see if i can extrapolate that sort of focus from your analyses.

and fwiw, you can absolutely try to take advantage of a wagon forming on someone by digging them a hole they may have trouble getting out of, which can make them mislynchbait. i have already addressed that i’ve been mislynched in a recent game on d1, so that without a doubt does explain why i feel scum might try to take advantage of forming a wagon on me d1. plus, when i was mislynched, 2 of the 5 votes were scum, so naturally when i’m a potential mislynch i’m going to doubt those on my wagon

[skitter30]

Math I dislike PRs because

they make it easier to obfuscate

and I was hoping that wouldn't be the case but I very much dislike that you even outright said it'll get in the way. Rhyme all you want but don't use it as some shield to dodge requests for real content.

Yes, I was thinking this too

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Yep, Gamma has to Hulk out (with only one game-solving related post so far).

LOL pls
I'm honestly kinda wanting to kick back this game ngl, maybe I'll get solvy later but for now I just wanna smell the roses. It's my first full game back ya know.
Keyser does kinda strike me as town though, based on what he's taking note of

I don't like the first half of this post, but I agree with the keyser bit

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VOTE: Northsidegal. she blew right past me and the rest of town as scum in lynchpin mafia by largely lurking/staying in the background. i don’t reckon i want to see a repeat of that. i’d like to see her give some early gamereads. her content hasn’t really had much substance so far :cool:

questions coming for all :P

I don't really know if people can be classified as 'lurkers' when the game hasn't even been a thing for a full day yet.

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I’m kinda feeling worse on stun/Nauci/Mom/invis for their “lynch the lurker” votes like 48 hours into a game on the weekend

+1

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i feel like her questions might have an intent of stirring the pot—so that would be my official reasoning.

I really didn't get that vibe from gemini at all; her questions felt super safe to me. I just don't know if that's AI though

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I'm checking with the replacement queue. I will likely be very late with my normal 8 PM EST vote count by the way, going to see Incredibles 2 tonight

I saw it last week, it was a very good movie :)

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@skitter: what’s your reason to believe shoshin is scum playing super aggressively?

I don't believe I gave a scumread on her or said she was scum playing super aggressively? I was trying to understand if she was being serious wrt her math push on like the first page because it was based on like a serious misunderstanding of math's RVS post and like ... didn't make sense to me to find math scummy for it. I will note that she didn't actually explain why she thought the RVS post was 'pro-scum' despite me asking a few times.

Like her push on math there just doesn't make sense to me because it means she majorly misread his post but she claims that she understood it wasn't serious so I don't get why she had a problem with it.

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Sidenote, lynching gemslot would be a fine vote
I cry tho, that replace out is quite a spy note
No joke I need more townreads than this mild boat
So far its stun, Sho, and I like what Keyse wrote

ok, elaborate on gemini please

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My problem is that the "obvtown as town" bloc is disappointing
skittz, Nauci, NSG and Ran are all avoiding
That stream of consciousness style they like exploiting
To get townreads elsewhere. Reading 'em here's a bit annoying

wait, are you complaining that I haven't posted much yet? You know that I'm v/la on weekends .... and like, I announced yesterday and brass is putting it in the votecounts?

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VOTE: skitter30
(Sorry babe, I’m confirm-bias’ng)

If Shoshin is town, this works well as skitter30 being the scum who couldn’t resist the bite.

Time to return to the thread and town clear yourself.
Time to resolve those page 1 associations.

Idk what 'couldn't resist the bite' means. She was misreading math's post and I pointed that out because what she was saying didn't make sense to me if she actually understood math's RVS post.

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quack quack

duckling :) :) :)

why koser soze?

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I was reading the game

because the rapping is :fire: :fire: :fire:

and soft mind melded with Gemini a couple of times so the slot was too good to pass up

where did you mindmeld with her?

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I have the faintest whisper of a townlean on skitter atm

why?

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someone else can probably tell you it ruins the fun if I self out

ooh! pick me! I have a guess :)

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ok 273 is the first post I liked from shoshin

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apologies for the wrong pronoun, skitter. i think it’s natural to assume someone’s a ‘he’ until, you know, they’re not. :P

but i will say i’m not feeling that you, skitter, are townreadable right now either. not seeing a clear pro-town focus to your above analysis, but i’ll give you time to settle in and analyze more to see if i can extrapolate that sort of focus from your analyses.

and fwiw, you can absolutely try to take advantage of a wagon forming on someone by digging them a hole they may have trouble getting out of, which can make them mislynchbait. i have already addressed that i’ve been mislynched in a recent game on d1, so that without a doubt does explain why i feel scum might try to take advantage of forming a wagon on me d1. plus, when i was mislynched, 2 of the 5 votes were scum, so naturally when i’m a potential mislynch i’m going to doubt those on my wagon

OK? I'm not asking you to townread me right now?

Idk, that's usually ohw I play, especially when I come back to the thread and have like ten pages to catch up.

My point is that she started the wagon so it's a weird thing for you to say that she was taking advantage of it; like that's not how I would use that term; it implies to me that there was a pre-existing wagon that she thought was useful so she's trying to use it to further her own agenda. Like the connotation to me was that she was being oppurtunistic. but she like started teh wagon so I don't really view it as she's oppurtunistically pushing a wagon that already existed. Maybe I read too much into your post and misread it a bit, idk.

The most townie thing I'm seeing from you is that you keep referencing your mindset from this other towngame and are like drawing parralels from your play there to your play here.

[skitter30]

yay i'm in real time again

[the worst]

welcome back! o/

[the worst]

Gemini asked people to elaborate when reading!me was like "yeah I'm not totally sure I see those reads" which was a solid start. her commentary on your comnon sense defence of rvs math was good too (this game pwned rvs)

considering how young this game is I think I've pretty much seen what I'd expect from town!you if that makes sense? like its not a strong read lol, what makes you ask?

[skitter30]

Idk, you tend to wait for real-time interaction and it felt kinda premature from you.

[the worst]

catchups are hard. I try and have as much of an opinion as I can but there isn't much to go by yet.

[skitter30]

Eh, fair enough

[the worst]

do you have any particularly strong reads yet?
and how do you feel about Keyser?

[skitter30]

I'm coming around to town on stungun

Math is sketchy.

Keyset is a slight townlean, but not as strongly as a lot of people are making him out to be.

I'm re-evaliating shoshin; still dont like her RVS but I like her more recent posts (esp 273 iirc)

I dont really like momrangel or gamma.

I dont think I have strong opinions on anyone else atm. Or at least, if I do, it's not coming to mind.

[skitter30]

You?

[skitter30]

I'm not sure if scum!you jumps into the thread confidently voting someone that is being largely townread.

[the worst]

Bernie Sanders struck me as very towny during catchup and I'm pretty attached to that read still. Irrelephant is good as well.

Stungun I've been struggling with in particular, do you see anything particularly town telling yet?

[the worst]

I like Gamma better than Mom ATM from that bottom reads list. Both are not easy reads.

[the worst]

Mom just hasn't really said anything AI. the only thing she's doing is voteparking Invisibility.

[the worst]

Invisibility actually feels more lucid than usual and I have no idea how to interpret that