Mini 2018 - American Presidents Mafia (Game Over)

[brassherald]

"Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead."

Votecount 1.9

the worst(2)

~ Invisibility(31), Bernie Sanders(93)

skitter30(2)

~ Keyser Söze(105), Momrangal(27)

Nauci(2)

~ Shoshin(98), Irrelephant11(57)

Momrangal(2)

~ northsidegal(5), the worst(81)

Irrelephant11(2)

~ Nauci(39), skitter30(76)

Gamma Emerald(1)

~ Mathdino(58)


Not Voting (2): stungun0404(34), Gamma Emerald(45)

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2018-07-02 17:10:00)

MOD REMINDERS

Still looking for a replacement for NSG.

[Irrelephant11]

No I felt like we’d reasonably narrowed the pool to five players that had a high chance of flipping red. I also felt confident that Shoshin is town and in our last game she was pretty good at discerning things

[Shoshin]

Skitter's town btw, willing to bank a lot on that. I need to reread because I think I'm going wrong somewhere and need to reevaluate some things with a new perspective of Skitter as town.

[stungun0404]

Granted all that said it is still possible I'm looking too much into this; I can see for ex: with my focus on TW and math an invisibility or maybe even momrangal scum (would be weird association though) skating by at this point
I don't really see the case for nauci and TBH it may be early to say but I'm feeling like best

husbando

lynch today is probably going to be between TW and invis barring more information coming up

why is invis one of the best lynches today? not saying it’s a bad one or anythig, but curious as to your reasoning

i just don’t see us getting much info atm regarding the gamestate from an invisibility flip myself, so i’ll pass on that for now, BUT I will be clear that invisibility does need to invest a little more effort in the game or they are a potential policy lynch, if nothing else.

[Shoshin]

I am kinda excited to play with invisibility fwiw

Why?

[stungun0404]

Nauci is probably town. 749 discouraging any sort of town player from even crumbing a power role seems like a town-motivated push, not a scum-motivated push. I still need to see more from here, however, to upgrade my read on her.

[Irrelephant11]

Nauci is probably town. 749 discouraging any sort of town player from even crumbing a power role seems like a town-motivated push, not a scum-motivated push. I still need to see more from here, however, to upgrade my read on her.

This is a good point
Hm
You’re perceptive

[Irrelephant11]

I am kinda excited to play with invisibility fwiw

Why?

I was gonna make this post
Forgot
Cool

[skitter30]

soooo, posts like that are why i think you may be trying to buddy shoshin

[stungun0404]

thanks irrelephant! i’m enjoying playing with you

i’m going to reread keyser’s iso to see if there’s a solid point i can make for him being town—so people will stop getting distracted by him— because i have a quite heavy townread on him.

[stungun0404]

Just trying to unpack Shoshin-skitter’s early reactions (or should I say OVERreaction): T/T, S/T, T/S
Probably too awkward for S/S.

Delighted to see us enter serious foreplay so soon though.

Let’s start here. Inherently a town train-of-thought. Why would scum ever start out by hypothesizing that a certain situation cannot be scum vs. scum? unless they are super adept at playing scum; that’s the only case i could see being made against that.

further, what motive does scum have for unpacking the alignments of BOTH players from the way they are overreacting in the thread?

[Nauci]

I continue to vibe with Skitter and Stun, and TR Keyser and BS when when we don't agree

I think it's better to make cases for scum instead of trying to clear who you think is town because I don't think it's a distraction to turn over every rock—so long as it's not preventing us from turning over the other rocks.

@The Worst: PRETTY SUPER DUPER PLEASE tell us what those couple of mind meld moments with Gemini you mentioned were? That was a pretty big dollop of potentially "yeah this sounds good" bull to drop and I'm not letting you go on that one. It doesn't take any time or bandwidth to think about and contribute to the game with because clearly you've either already thought about what they are or should just come clean about making it up.

TIA

[stungun0404]

You have a fair point, Nauci, to focus on scum-hunting rather than using evidence to further support my townreads. Since my townreading is better on D1 than my scumreading, maybe I shall focus on sorting the candidates I’m not quite sold on the town-iness of.

like you, nauci, for instance (you’re a townlean right now); i’ll look at your iso to see if i see another solid town indication, because that would be what i need to pretty much clear you from being scum

[stungun0404]

Nauci is probably town. 749 discouraging any sort of town player from even crumbing a power role seems like a town-motivated push, not a scum-motivated push. I still need to see more from here, however, to upgrade my read on her.

This is a good point
Hm
You’re perceptive

Wait.

A question that just occurred to me: if you do believe in the theoretical soundness of my point, then what is making you feel justified to keep your vote on nauci? especially when you already acknowledged in your 753 that naucy is sounding towny sometimes yourself. is this just a placeholder vote, then? because it’s bothering me right now how your vote is left there hanging.

VOTE: Irrelephant

[Irrelephant11]

I’m thinking, and waiting for Shoshin’s new Skitter thoughts and more of your Nauci thoughts. I also would probably move my vote to either the tw wagon (which is big enough already) or to Keyser, who I’m not ready to case while on mobile.

Getting votes is not my new fav part of playing mafia, guys

[Irrelephant11]

Stungun what do you think of Nauci’s case on me? I know why you’re scumreading me, but she has different reasons, and I’m curious if those come across as genuine to you

[Nauci]

re:

consistently focusing on refuting a certain person’s

points who looks town in an attempt to spread doubt/confusion.

oh, i do that to everyone if i think they're wrong; my read on him isn't really relevant.

I must admit being super empathetic with this style. I got to epic levels of pedantry in the Team Mafia Tiebreaker game because I was *so* unbelievably frustrated with Sky_Paladin constantly being *wrong* about stuff, despite reading him as town. I was constantly correcting him because I think it's very anti-town to post incorrect information and thought it was bizarre that he was doing so consistently, when he seemed definitely town to me. It was hugely distracting from actual scum hunting and we probably would have lost if GIF wasn't Jesus Christ himself.

As an aside, that's a game where Bellaphant and I were constantly on the same wavelength and agreed on so many points that we liked each other despite our best efforts to remain neutral, and everyone kept FOSing us for it. In fact, I kept declaring that I had the same reactions to things that Bella did *but wasn't town reading her for it because I was wary of pocketing.* What I learned from the experience is that sometimes town just agree on stuff and have similar thought processes, and that it's actually more indicative that they are town too if it is done organically enough. I think it's difficult to fake it well (but I'm sure that does happen).

Okay, responding to some stuff directly about me before jumping into some deep dives coming up tonight. It'll take me several hours at least.

[Nauci]

Nauci is probably town. 749 discouraging any sort of town player from even crumbing a power role seems like a town-motivated push, not a scum-motivated push. I still need to see more from here, however, to upgrade my read on her.

This is a good point
Hm
You’re perceptive

Wait.

A question that just occurred to me: if you do believe in the theoretical soundness of my point, then what is making you feel justified to keep your vote on nauci? especially when you already acknowledged in your 753 that naucy is sounding towny sometimes yourself. is this just a placeholder vote, then? because it’s bothering me right now how your vote is left there hanging.

VOTE: Irrelephant

Funny enough, I think that of everything Irrelephant has said, this determination to scum read me based on my case on him makes me less suspicious of him. It feels like an instinctive OMGUS instead of a mislynch push because he could just as easily not make these "oh that's a good point" posts when I'm trying to start a wagon.

[Nauci]

676 @Keyser:

I want to make it clear that I'm not defending Skitter here, but rather the specific behavior you are questioning. I firmly think that correcting misinformation is important and can be disconnected from alignment sussing.

I managed to get unbelievably mad that one game because Sky kept both making wrong statements AND accusing me of tunneling him as scum because I kept mopping up after him. Misinformation is anti-town. Period. (Side note: I am VERY careful about when I say scummy versus anti-town for reasons like this.)

695 No commentary of use here but vertically symmetrical fake Ben Frank is perturbing as hell

726 So I think that it's very difficult for anyone to answer questions about what I'm like when scum, because I've only had 1.5 scum games here and a baby one on a different (private WoW) forum like 3 years ago. The first one was in a newbie where I was fairly aggressive pushing a mislynch IIRC and succeeded but my partner accidentally hammered so they figured him out immediately and with the way things were in that game I basically conceded (I probably shouldn't have but it was amazing how much the game was basically POEd by the start of day 2).

The game w/ Irrelephant I was actually super ill in the first half and constantly on opioids for pain that made me loopy, give 0 fucks, and write in an ultra casual style (and have a very short temper), before I got better and too busy catching up on work to play.

If you read the scum pt though you'll find that I'm happy to pull emotionally manipulative things like asking to be bussed or whatever, but also that I struggled to make meaty scum hunting posts and kept delaying my catch up post and wasn't motivated to really actually do it. Sounding genuine when you're as wordy and overanalysis-prone as I am is hard af

I've made relatively aggressive pushes in the past on day 1 but only as town, and sadly I was usually wrong (which is why I'm going to ISO irrelephant + the worst and try to shake off my preconceived notions later).

OK be back in a few hours I have errands to run and thumbs to ice

My d1 lynch pool is still anyone shaded red in my listicle

[Momrangal]

I am rethinking my read on Bernie, and I think he's going after low hanging fruit duck.

Bernie made a huge ass case on duck, and his tone and I agree with the lack of direction but I entirely disagree with duck being given enough space. I have that slot as null, but I honestly don't find his pred scummy outside the supposed semi-trustish whatever tell you want to call it regarding him replacing out. Even if whatsherface and skits (I think it was) told each other that they were excited to play the same alignment, I don't think replacing out should ever be alignment indicative and no one really has given duck a chance to do more than get his feet wet.

He even said that the wagon would have zero effect because he lacks time and wouldn't have it later in the week but absolutely no one has payed attention to that little tidbit.

Further more, this case on duck came when after duck said he wouldn't have any time to defend himself, and after duck is at a vulnerable L-2 (1?) position making it completely viable that duck gets lynched before he even had more time to get himself busy.

He also pushes duck but still takes a wholly neural stance on the matter so that, when popular scum read duck flips town, he can take the blame off himself considerably easier than most others gunning for his lych

[Momrangal]

Also sorry if it seems all convoluted, but Its late and I was thinking about stuff and I kinda felt like I had to get this out there

[Momrangal]

Ugh Nauci you’re sounding towny sometimes but you keep calling for my lynch and it doesn’t feel like you actually think I’m scum you just want me lynched and I want us both to be town but we’re never gonna be able to work together if we are, are we

I highly doubt this is something scum would say to someone they are scum reading/trying to lynch.

I also disagree and alot of her posts have alot of words and doesn't seem to really do anything or take much of a stance even when she kinda does. Though it is very stream of consciousness so

[Shoshin]

Irrelephant, I'd like to hear your case on Key.

[Shoshin]

Stun, do you have any scum games?

[Momrangal]

VOTE: Nauci

Though I would prefer a Bernie wagon