SUPP 2017 MAFIA: COMPLETE

[the worst]

I don't like the claim of a straight guilty when Fire Assassin should have known from the beginning that his role could come with a fake guilty.

This pinged me as well but I get the impression Fire genuinely thought he'd come out better than Espe.

[MariaR]

Connect eh?

[MariaR]

I think one of the big reasons Nat is scum is because of Actiondans post at 154 it doesn't seem like it comes from a town mindset he just said Screen is a 0 and not explaining why. I feel like they were trying to also shade Chara and Brawl 2 very towny people it doesn't come from a town mindset trying to solve the game more so scum trying to mislead
Then we got Nat here:

I think trying to find some way to optimize the ranking phase is folly. Like Chara said, if we have some universal scumread and they slip by that phase, we can always lynch them. IS there even anyone whom people are in total agreement should get all 0's though?

Can we talk about that? This conversation seems like a lot of futile fluff that's really easy for scum to blend in during. Scum thrive when mechanics is the focus of the game rather than scumhunting.

@Punreader when you say pun do you mean scum..?

This talk never happened. Lack of thought going in here

Alternatively, we just don't publish our lists before the ranking phase, we do so afterwards. Giving everyone a pass to lie about their reads is just shooting ourselves in the foot and randoming makes zero sense. Even if scum are able to save themselves in this phase, we'll still clean out some scummy town.

In other news, we should VOTE: End day sooner rather than later, though we can wait for some people to craft reads lists first if they really insist. I would advise against outright ranking them though and publishing who you're giving what score. I don't believe there's much to be gained from a prolonged day 1. From experience, spending a long time just chatting with no information doesn't necessarily lead to better reads. Watching the chaos that was Civilization Mafia certainly taught me that.

Realtalk, that's enough about mechanics. Let's get talking about reads. I think Pine's shit he got warned by the mod for was towny, so I'm eager to see Punreader's assessment to the contrary. Dunnstral's content is lame, particularly his response to my opener; extremely LAMIST and doesn't track considering he's barely playing the game himself. Chara looks like its townself (have I ever played against you as scum tho?) but its read on DV's opening doesn't track with me at all, and the thing it pointed out tends to be something I look for.

TBG really needs to stop talking shop and get back to scumhunting.

Funny nat should've been doing the same thing besides posting this. The reason for the Dunntral read is outright shallow and bad I don't see how mod warning is towny and a very blah reason.

I hereby declare anyone after this point who makes a post purely mechanical in nature will provoke my eternal ire and I will campaign for their death forevermore.

Holy crap are punreader's posts actually important or can I just like... do some skimming?

Posting for the sake of posting.

TBG fwiw i dont know EP's personal feelings on it but using stuff like google sheets that you cant embed into the forum tends to get you in trouble, since you can alter it irrevocably after posting it and during times you shouldnt be able to post.

PenguinPower - 8
Taly - 5
MariaR - 3

Nahdia why PP so high and Taly/Maria so low?

pretty sure i made my PenguinPower read clear yesterday.
Taly I just had mixed feelings on since i didnt see anything super towny despite a huge mass of posts but i still wanted them around because people who post a reasonable amount help the game, town or scum.
Maria I'm just fucking incapable of reading and she was low by process of elimination because i'm mostly just townhunting here because my scumreading abilities are absolute fucking shit, as she can attest to from our last game together.

Taly's posts today have been solid though and we seem pretty much on the same page on stuff for the moment.

I can conf that Nat has a hard time reading me but I find it hard that she'd just go "lol nope" and ignore me as town.

[MariaR]

If it was just nat she'd be null/lurk poe but with Action dans posting Nat is scum. Sorry not sorry Chara can I move our vote back now?

[Taly]

Alternatively, we just don't publish our lists before the ranking phase, we do so afterwards. Giving everyone a pass to lie about their reads is just shooting ourselves in the foot and randoming makes zero sense. Even if scum are able to save themselves in this phase, we'll still clean out some scummy town.

In other news, we should VOTE: End day sooner rather than later, though we can wait for some people to craft reads lists first if they really insist. I would advise against outright ranking them though and publishing who you're giving what score. I don't believe there's much to be gained from a prolonged day 1. From experience, spending a long time just chatting with no information doesn't necessarily lead to better reads. Watching the chaos that was Civilization Mafia certainly taught me that.

Realtalk, that's enough about mechanics. Let's get talking about reads. I think Pine's shit he got warned by the mod for was towny, so I'm eager to see Punreader's assessment to the contrary. Dunnstral's content is lame, particularly his response to my opener;

extremely LAMIST

and doesn't track considering he's barely playing the game himself. Chara looks like its townself (have I ever played against you as scum tho?) but its read on DV's opening doesn't track with me at all, and the thing it pointed out tends to be something I look for.

TBG really needs to stop talking shop and get back to scumhunting.

Realtalk, that's enough about mechanics. Let's get talking about reads. I think Pine's shit he got warned by the mod for was towny, so I'm eager to see Punreader's assessment to the contrary. Dunnstral's content is lame, particularly his response to my opener;

extremely LAMIST

and doesn't track considering he's barely playing the game himself. Chara looks like its townself (have I ever played against you as scum tho?) but its read on DV's opening doesn't track with me at all, and the thing it pointed out tends to be something I look for.

Dunnstral's content is lame, particularly his response to my opener;

extremely LAMIST

and doesn't track considering he's barely playing the game himself.

extremely LAMIST

Good catch.

((this is mostly non-serious post, I actually am reversing my townlean on Nahdia now, your points make sense alongside the context of the predecessor's posts, I can see the scumread here. plus with my PoE pool/record so far, there's a strong suggestion Nahdia is scum.))

[the worst]

I actually liked ActionDan's posting the first time around, and Nahdia struck me as towny!suspiciousness and kept the game moving along nicely.

having said that I like Maria's point above. I'll re-read AD/Nahdia at some point and see if that's the wagon I've been waiting for.

[Shoshin]

@Taly

It's not that a cop claim warrants doubt or questioning, it's that a cop claim shouldn't make any difference in a role madness game and that's the case twice over in a game where there's multiple cop claims.

I explained why I think Maria's scum on D1 and I've yet to see any indication otherwise. Contrary to what you're suggesting, I did something about it by ranking her a 0 and by voting her earlier today, but some of the players that I townread (e.g. you) townread Maria so I'm not ready yet to start trying to convince everyone just yet, especially when there's quite a bit of support for lynching PP and I'm happy to go in that direction (as I said earlier).

My reads haven't changed much. I still think PP/Maria are scummy, I still have no clue what to make of all the stuff involving Fire/Esp but both give me a bad vibe, enough to seriously consider lynching, and I still think you're probably town.

Screen's replacement feels pretty town, so that's cool. DV's reads mirror a lot of mine so he's probably town - there's a slight concern that he's buddying me but he's also suspecting me, so that mostly clears that concern up.

That's all the players that come to mind at the moment. Oh yeah, Pun felt like third-party yesterday based on his claim but I'm probably not lynching him unless we're at LYLO and all my other suspects are dead.

I still don't understand what the deal is with Esp. So what if Fire's result isn't legit? Esp felt scummy as fuck at the start of this day and I didn't really see much of anything to turn that around. But DV seems to have experience with Esp and probably sees something I'm missing so any insight on that would be helpful.

[Shoshin]

the worst is probably town.

[Shoshin]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=76221 - me as scum
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=76303 - me as town

Gustavo was in both games. He should know better than to vote me here. The way he's misrepresenting what I'm saying shows a pretty strong desire to characterize my play in the worst possible light. No way he's town here.

[Shoshin]

Fuck, posted in the wrong game. Sorry.

[Taly]

Nahdia - 10

Chara - 10
Punreader - 10

Fire Assassin - 9

PenguinPower - 8

the worst - 7

Espeonage - 6

Shoshin - 6

Taly - 5

DeasVail - 5

TehBrawlGuy - 4

Pine - 4
MariaR - 3

Dunnstral - 2

Lovebird - 1

Srceenplay - 0

Vaxkiller - 0
NicoRobin - 0

While this list possibly entails I'm townreading scum somewhere

This ranking is terrible in congruence to my pool and reads right now.

There's no cleared, or arguably-cleared town above 6.

There's no

???

below 5.

On second thought, I don't want another replacement to muddy the waters here.
VOTE: Nahdia

P-Edit

Shoshin

, is there any read you have where there's certainty? You keep using words like "probably", "still", "mostly" even when there's claims present.

I'm comfortable townreading

Maria

now, even outside the claim, so I recommend you state why she's scum.

I don't disagree with

PP

-scum, but I'm leaning with

TW's

mindset, I'm not very comfortable with his lynch/wagon right now, especially after my clarity on

Nahdia

.

[MariaR]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=76221 - me as scum
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=76303 - me as town

Gustavo was in both games. He should know better than to vote me here. The way he's misrepresenting what I'm saying shows a pretty strong desire to characterize my play in the worst possible light. No way he's town here.

The ironic part is the tone in this post is dif then every other post sho has said js.

[Shoshin]

Shoshin, is there any read you have where there's certainty? You keep using words like "probably", "still", "mostly" even when there's claims present.

Absolute certainty? No. I'm not going to fake certainty just to appease you guys. I'm fairly confident on PP/Maria, as well as fairly confident on the townreads I've just stated, but it also wouldn't surprise me if I'm wrong. If you or someone could actually explain what makes my reads wrong, I'd be very open to changing them. Pointing me at claims means nothing to me. As I've already said, claims, roles, investigative results, all of that shit is unreliable in a role madness game. Behaviors is the only thing that's going to convince me of alignments.

[Shoshin]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=76221 - me as scum
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=76303 - me as town

Gustavo was in both games. He should know better than to vote me here. The way he's misrepresenting what I'm saying shows a pretty strong desire to characterize my play in the worst possible light. No way he's town here.

The ironic part is the tone in this post is dif then every other post sho has said js.

I'm not sure what the rules are talking about other games but I'll just say this - how much certainty I have in THIS game is the result of what has happened in THIS game, not what has happened in any other game. Sometimes I'm more certain than others.

[Shoshin]

I agree that Nahdia's ranking is shit and there's a distinct possibility that she's scum. But why not lynch PP, Taly?

[PenguinPower]

Behaviors is the only thing that's going to convince me of alignments.

Absent that not working well for you, as town you have at least (from what I can see) pushed your reads pretty hard with lots of reasoning (good or bad) behind it. You aren't doing that here.

[Shoshin]

Behaviors is the only thing that's going to convince me of alignments.

Absent that not working well for you, as town you have at least (from what I can see) pushed your reads pretty hard with lots of reasoning (good or bad) behind it. You aren't doing that here.

That's a really simplistic way to look at my play. How much certainty I have depends on the game and the way it's going.

[Taly]

I agree that Nahdia's ranking is shit and there's a distinct possibility that she's scum. But why not lynch PP, Taly?

Because if

PP

is scum, I'm sure he's the designated bus by his hypothetical scumteam. His lynch is

too easy

, and I don't trust that.

But to be 100% honest? I think

Nahdia

is more likely to flip scum than

PP

.

And in the back of my mind, part of me wants to entertain the

PP

town possibility, even if it isn't logical, and by that alone, I cannot L-1 or hammer him in good conscience.

[PenguinPower]

That's a really simplistic way to look at my play. How much certainty I have depends on the game and the way it's going.

Simplistic - maybe. But, seems to be a strong correlation, and I'm happy with that. I don't see a reason why I need to focus more than that based on your play.

Sadly, you most likely won't be lynched today.

[Shoshin]

I dunno about Nahdia. Maybe. The way she defended PP on D1 strongly indicates that scum Nahdia = scum PP.

[Shoshin]

His lynch is too easy, and I don't trust that.

Is his lynch really that easy? Who suspects him enough to vote?

[PenguinPower]

I dunno about Nahdia. Maybe. The way she defended PP on D1 strongly indicates that scum Nahdia = scum PP.

Then why flip me first instead of Nahdia?

[PenguinPower]

Is his lynch really that easy? Who suspects him enough to vote?

You should probably catch up on the game...

[Shoshin]

I dunno about Nahdia. Maybe. The way she defended PP on D1 strongly indicates that scum Nahdia = scum PP.

Then why flip me first instead of Nahdia?

Because you're scummier than Nahdia, and your association to Nahdia has nothing to do with that.

[Shoshin]

Is his lynch really that easy? Who suspects him enough to vote?

You should probably catch up on the game...

I've caught up. There's plenty of discussion about other lynches, so I don't think you're an "easy" lynch by any means. There's been resistance to it, even if that resistance hasn't always been directly defensive of you.