Mini 2018 - American Presidents Mafia (Game Over)

[Gustavo]

Idk why I keep switching genders in my posts. Just a bad habit.

[Nauci]

I don't remember this town coming even close to having a leader

Wat

I'd say I've been one of the leaders in this game even if you haven't felt that way. Leadership isn't exclusive to one player and this town has a number of players who play as leaders - and just so you know, part of leading is knowing when to let others lead so if you're just looking for someone that others are sheeping that's not really what Mom was talking about.

You can try a leadership style all you want and keep asking people to sheep you

But besides Irrelephant I don't think anyone has followed your leads so I don't consider you a leader at all. If your argument is that there have been several, then that's absurd because in a 13 player game where only half are posting if 3+ people are leader then no one is...

Leaders are like when Math hammered on the worst so much and for so long that half the town fell in line and strung up scum

[Irrelephant11]

Well Shoshin and Gustavo aren't town together

I wouldn't mind lynching Gustavo today, honestly, but I doubt it's our best play, given the numbers of lurky slots

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, what're your reads?

probably something like this
Mathdino kinda towny
Nauci tbd
Irrelephant11 towny I guess
skitter30 feels towny but idk why
Momrangal haven't gotten anything solid yet
Shoshin kinda towny
Bernie Sanders kinda feels town
Not_Mafia a bit scummish
the worst could be scum
Gustavo could be irrational town or scum
northsidegal blech
Keyser Soze probably town but still feel a bit paranoid
Like I feel like I have a decent amount of townreads but my scumreads lack definition
fyi nauci is tbd not because I don't have anything to work with but I want to see how something shakes out
PEdit: why can't shoshin and gustavio be town together?

[Irrelephant11]

oops I meant "scum together"

he keeps getting her gender wrong

[Shoshin]

Nauci, there's different ways of leading a town. I can tell that your understanding of the word "leader" is different from mine or Mom's.

[Bernie Sanders]

Zzzz

I've been super busy getting my things together and am going to be no access tonight/tomorrow though should be fine by saturday or sunday.
still so math catch super sucks, super wall isos to change up everything, math if town judgment is invaluable and math if still dodgy leads to other considerations but idk about now

Gustavo I'd just solely read on the basis of stungun who I highly doubt could've had anything near that level of thought in his scumrange as a newbie

Overall gamma's been playing to his scum meta so far (not really that interested in the gamestate or making conclusions from his questioning)

what I would do ideally if I had more time here is hard engage and really press him, and depending either lynch him or invisiblity's slot but I'd appreciate more votes those slots over e.g nauci shoshin
I admit I can't read N_M for shit (ironically math supposedly may) but invis is just kinda noobscum

still don't like TW here but I'd prefer to take a ton of time to re-evaluate and go deeper if I get the chance and I think enough people probably hold him accountable otherwise

replacement order does kind of screw us here given NSG is top priority to get something in as a slot to sort and nothing

to some extent I maybe do have too many townreads here if the game isn't so simple but otoh I do think it's possible scum here just are the players mostly not that good at it and generally in the fringes (maybe too easy, but some games that is just the case)

[Nauci]

like half of your case was based on meta and whether or not she gives reasons for votes

No my case has absolutely nothing to do with meta. The point of the meta dive was to prove she lied. The lying, not cooperating, refusing to provide a reason for her vote, and misrepping other players while accusing me of it are basically why I’m scum reading.

If town can you please try better at reading comprehension? It makes the game so much easier if you actually know what you’re talking about before speaking.

Thank you

Says the dude who keeps posting without having read most of the game?

[Bernie Sanders]

though ironically as I wrote that people have already started doing it (engaging gamma)

[Gamma Emerald]

oops I meant "scum together"

he keeps getting her gender wrong

oh lol that's much more sensible
also Rask I've only just started seriously questioning things so it's kinda hard to draw conclusions from it yet
Pedit: lol so you noticed

[Shoshin]

Gamma, can you link some representative games of you as town/scum?

[Gustavo]

I don’t really wish dragging the shoshin conversation on any longer. Either you side with me or side with her. Telling me I’m wrong isn’t going to change my mind because clearly I don’t agree with that. If you want to say it isn’t AI, that’s great you don’t think so but from what I’ve seen of her play, all of her play, it’s AI for me. You are entitled to your opinion, I’m entitled to mine. Nobody is really pointing to anything protown from her which also supports my read. Now don’t go run off and do that either because I’ve made my mind up.

If you want this game to turn into a shit show, I assure you that it will turn into one if you continue trying to change my mind. My mind isn’t open to be changed on this topic. Not day 1 anyway.

[Bernie Sanders]

@Mod

can we get extensions given the number of replacements and unconventional replacement order (replace of a slot with almost nothing far more important than another)

Ideally I'd want to get another second pass at this game when I have more time but right now as is I won't return until deadline is really close

[Gustavo]

Says the dude who keeps posting without having read most of the game?

A lot of replacements don’t read the entire game. I don’t need to waste time reading everything when I can iso people. That’s more valuable anyway. I can cut through the fluff

[Not_Mafia]

Where's the lie? I'm not reading all this malarkey

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, can you link some representative games of you as town/scum?

Honestly I have so many games of varying quality that it's kinda hard to do that without also omitting some element of my play
would you like one good and one bad of each?
also VOTE: Gustavo because at this point he rings more of scum who just doesn't give a shit if he's wrong rather than town who's tunneled.

[Shoshin]

Where's the lie? I'm not reading all this malarkey

There's no lie. Gustavo's just delusional. He thinks I lied about what I said I did in another game even though he's been proven wrong already.

Are you going to read the game?

[Not_Mafia]

How much would I have to read?

[Gamma Emerald]

How much would I have to read?

You are aware there's a visible page count right?

[Not_Mafia]

How much would I have to read?

You are aware there's a visible page count right?

Context

[Shoshin]

How much would I have to read?

Just skim enough to get some reads.

[Nauci]

Okay so

I don't know how I feel about Gus but he did ruffle enough feathers that I now have better reads on people.

Shoshin goes from null-town to town-lean (now that I realize she was casing me more than defending Irrelephant, I'm feeling really good about her)
Irrelephant11 goes from scummy to null
Momrangal goes from null to scummy

And all of the lurkers are on the naughty list, including math

Skitter the wk is an interesting theory; do you believe the premise for it, that tw is town?

Strangely enough the duckster has somehow earned a null from me for now

There are way too many places I want to vote right now but I'll start with VOTE: momrangal

Couple of questions:
Why are you categorizing Math as a lurker? For the most part he's been active even though he missed his specified day of contribution.
Can you describe how exactly Gustavo helped your reads?
Why pick momrangal out of those you wanted to vote?

I had planned to elaborate on this when I got home but that's not happening until like 11 pm so I'll do some messy mobile zuihitsu

-the only reason I could see for scumrelephant to defend the towniness of both Shoshin and Gustavo is to keep Gus as a mislynch for later while pocketing Shosh, but that seemed way too far fetched. There are a half dozen good potential mislynch targets for down the road when half the game isn't close to town read. Scumrelephant would have benefited from letting one set the other up as scum to remove one of the most townread slots either way, but made cases for why neither of them might be scummy. The post digging up Shosh votes and refuting Gus without necessarily scum casing him was a point for townrelephant and I don't think there's a huge chance it was a hyper elaborate ploy, and even if it was, I don't mind scumrelephant bring tryhard pro-town. But the responses about Keyser still have me too wary to move to anything close to a town read.

-I think the reactions from Shoshin have been pretty genuine minus maybe the first few. She wouldn't stage this many fights or pick this many fights as scum, would she?

-I hadn't seen a math post in like a day and he hadn't post enough to reach even 15% if the potential we all know Math has. I think I can read active math but I sure as hell can't read inactive math

-I voted momrangal over you/others because out of everyone who has made posts that pinged me or gives me bad vibes, it seemed good to focus one who's actually participating in the thread and who I can easily see associations for; you're my other top pick for that

[Shoshin]

I think Mom's town, Nauci.

[Shoshin]

I'm starting to get paranoid about Math. He was pretty town earlier in the game but his absence is making it harder to hold onto that read.

[skitter30]

yeah let's not fall into that trap. it's a sitewide thing and literally not ai in any sense