NY214: Project Pinecone (Game over! Town wins!)

[brassherald]

Why would that be PT slipping?

[davesaz]

Davesaz - I totally get being more observant than talkative, but every time he posts, nothing really changes. There's lots of questions in his iso, but a lot of it boils down to minute clarifications that don't really read into motivations. A lot of his commentary is "I agree with this point or that point" but it's again looking through the forest ignorant of the trees.

Out of respect for Pine I'm gonna say this more quietly than I normally do.
When I say I haven't had time, that's a statement about RL, and I absolutely never lie about it.

[davesaz]

I wrote 545 and literally closed the lid on my laptop and went to a meeting right after hitting submit.

[davesaz]

I wasn't really satisfied to dave's answer in 459 and his response to t_w's question in 471 is also unsatisfying. He doesn't explain why he would be satisfied with that answer, it's just a straight matter-of-fact yes which kind of pings me. It reads like he doesn't even want to clarify his point. Also 85 seems like safe fence-sitting fluff but that's been pointed out and it was so long ago.

It's a straight up admission of self meta.
I don't vote.
I don't take stands until I actually have a stand to take.
That's how I am.

[Chickadee]

Why would that be PT slipping?

Because I alluded to knowing scum PT exists.

I think flubber is trying to shade me there.

[davesaz]

I don't think it's true that my ISO is naked, I have definitely given content.

Don't think I stated this explicitly but my issue with Flubber was the thing MOI pointed out: the point on Rask being scum coasting made no sense that early.

VOTE: Skygazer is a good wagon.

Why do you talk about one person but vote another here? And then no followup beyond that point?

[brassherald]

9. All Private Topics, including any Mafia factions, have daytalk enabled.

By the way, Daychat has to be public knowledge in normals.

[Ausuka]

That post was literally a few hours ago. I already gave thoughts on sky.

[brassherald]

I was quoting there for reference to the rules, in case someone didn't read it, not to address Pine.

[davesaz]

1) I'm counting this post as a strike against you on the grounds of PT slipping

It's usually a good plan to read the rules -- did you?

[davesaz]

That post was literally a few hours ago. I already gave thoughts on sky.

You may want to review your ISO and answer that question again.

[Ausuka]

@Elbirn: I never said you were scummy. I just said your ISO was off and I didn’t know why.

But then what does this even mean? If feeling like I'm "off" doesnt mean that you feel like I'm scummy then what even do you intend to convey mate?

There’s something tonally pinging about your posts but I can’t tell if it’s just your playstyle or something else.
You’re not necessarily scummy, just someone I need to take another look at so I can sort you.

Nah.

[Chickadee]

VOTE: flubbernugget

[Ausuka]

Idk why that was on q+

[davesaz]

You're going to maintain the assertion that you've given thoughts on Sky?

[profii]

Also, profii, of everyone that "wagoned" rask,why did you vote me?

missed this earlier sorry

I will be amazed if we aren't finding a scum in {The worst / flubber / xyzzy / sky } so i've been monitoring you lot more than any other group of players tbh.

i dont think it's tw so ive ruled him out.

Sky has pressure and in the spirit of being chill, I'm waiting for her to overcome the IRL things making her lurk. but idk, maybe I'm being mod manipulated into not death tunnelling there.

i dont like your posturing post that got mentioned, i know it was really early but it bugged me a lot. You then also got into Gus and Ausuka - i think gus doesn't like day 1 at all, so he's just nai for day1 tbh. I also think Ausuka will become easily sortable later in the game, idk how well you know her scum game? But seemed a weird read. My gut is just telling me you are using highly conflicting logic to me

i dont like xyzzys post in 180 either. It has random reads mixed with non-relevant content, almost sent to confuse or make it look like there is more content than there really is.


I guess the timing was wrong because that sky wagon sucked all the pressure off you so my vote alone isnt really going to pressure anything out of you. I could vote sky but I've asked what her scum reads are and I'm chilling so I'm being less forthright with my vote but i also wanted to move off RVS on to something more real

Notably, you agreed with my 309 post - who would you say is the scum involved in rask wagoning
'?

[Inferno390]

@Elbirn: I never said you were scummy. I just said your ISO was off and I didn’t know why.

But then what does this even mean? If feeling like I'm "off" doesnt mean that you feel like I'm scummy then what even do you intend to convey mate?

There’s something tonally pinging about your posts but I can’t tell if it’s just your playstyle or something else.
You’re not necessarily scummy, just someone I need to take another look at so I can sort you.

Nah.

What do you mean by “nah?”

[profii]

hang on hang on hang on.

Flubber posturers over that mini Rask wagon.
Ausuka then votes for Rask,
if you look at the Ausuka ISO, from my POV there is a bit of buddying, agreeing with my point about the Rask No lynch. Also, she states she has played my scum game 3x, we've also played scum together so she knows I know her scum game.
Then Ausuka gets on 5th place of the Sky wagon - a handy way to get off that town-cred bus flubber vote.

The only reason I went back to look at that is Dave pointed out the lack of opinion on sky, which dave is correct to highlight.

no way is that 2 scum in day 1 but lol if it is.

[profii]

ebwop = line 3
Ausuka then votes for

rask

flubber

[xyzzy]

here's some more thoughts from me through page 19. there's a big chunk of this where I didn't really comment a lot because it was just a bunch of posts either from or about Gustavo and I really don't think there's a lot of actual value in most of those posts. I'm headed out to go do some stuff this evening, but barring like 10 pages out of nowhere, I should very easily be able to catch up on page 20 to the present. as you can see, I don't really have a lot of strong scum reads right now -- mostly people I'm townreading. I also really don't have much of a read at all on Flubbernugget, who I will definitely ISO once I'm caught up, because he's a person about whom people have strong feelings, and I feel like I should develop an opinion there. I'm just unvoting for now, because like I said, I don't really have any strong scum reads, but I'll try forming those once I'm caught up by taking a closer look at the folks I'm not specifically townreading.

279 - this is a good, thoughtful post.
283 - so is this one. townreading HeWhoSwims.
286 - if Ausuka flips scum, there's a strong chance one of these three will as well, but I don't think it'll be more than one.
326 - this is a good post and makes me think Raskolnikov might be town.
356 - I tend to do better when I'm doing these kinds of posts where I respond to a bunch of stuff at once, but that also makes me a little less memorable.
383 - this is another good post from brassherald.
419 - a perot is when you just repeat the arguments someone else has made in order to look town. wait, shit, no, that's a different thing.
423 - only 6 pages since I made this post! wowie
434 - even though this post doesn't say anything substantive about this game, it makes me trust HitAlt a lot; this process feels genuine.
439 - these are extremely good reads from MagnaofIllusion and I'm just going to perot everything he says here
447 - Chickadee, I'm really interested in learning more about your reads on Inferno390, Raskolnikov, and brassherald.
453 - lmao nice
463 - this is a good post and I think davesaz is town.
464 - Skygazer, can you point to any specific Elbirn posts that have you town reading him?

UNVOTE:

[Andrius]

Spoiler: Not really sure whether stream-on-consciousness posting is a good idea or not but w/e its comfortable to me so I'll do that and can always bloc it out.

Ausuka, nice Lucca avatar. I remember playing that game when I was, like, 5 and loving Magus. One of the few games that manages time travel with multiple timelines and doesn't botch it all under its own weight.

Chickadee, its been awhile. At least this time you won't have to wonder which posts are mine. ^^

VOTE: profii

I'll get paranoid and tunnel profii eventually let's just get that over with

Why.
I know like, 5 people in this game so if you got history that might help me understand.

You want me to play risk

sober

???
That's harsh pine :<

vote:pine

Me too man.
Me too.

Just as I was concerned we weren't going anywhere Magna shows up.

VOTE: No Lynch

???

VOTE: No Lynch

Well this is worse than giving us yourself as scum, Elbirn. Wanna wagon your scum buddy here?

My opinion on you is reversing.

Inferno wins first notable goodpost award (87)

VOTE: davesz

I found that post of little help as its mostly NO LYNCH THEORY rather than actual game reads.
Kinda like IIOA.

imo Elbirn is town and just acting dumb

Raskolnikov is scum though

Yes.
Jury's still out on that one but my first thought was 'scum' so I am open to this conversation.

The actual LAMIST posts here are from Profii. Town should think a no-lynch RVS vote is NAI or a reaction test. I give Profii scum points for going out of his way to paint NL as bad -- that position is so routine it goes without saying, so saying it tends to come from scum trying to look town.

I'm not going to say it was NAI but there were an awful lot of words about something we all know to be true (No Lynching is bad for town).

I think inferno flails by now if they're scum

...so...
why aren't you voting him?

A very stock answer/quote thrown in an attempt to look townie.
Such a basic thing to ask "then why aren't you voting?"
But it reveals, in fact, that dramonic didn't really read what was said, and went for the appearances instead.
VOTE: Dramonic

Very nitpicky.
Very wrong.

Perhaps if you get scum read all the time, it is an issue with your play rather than with people being scared if your information instead of analysis play?

Wisdom.

then a wagon formed on Rask - I think we will find opportunistic scum in there, but I'm just popping by on my lunch break so I'll check the VC later.

hmm do you think Rask is town or being bussed?

Accusations of bussing this early without even ONE major wagon are premature to the max.
Very few scumteams are going to come out of the gate with the intent to bus their bud on Day 1.
Especially given its not 2011 and Fate isn't in this game.

If hate to be that guy, but can you please use post tags?

I'm definitely not going to be reading those posts either of you referenced.

Agreed.

Inferno... meet Gus.

I think Profii took the entire ordeal way too serious but I don't hold that as scummy, but NAI - and I doubt scum!profii would try to gain town cred by coming off as scum because as we see some people scumread him more often even when he's town.

TW is amazing and you can expect a lot of fluff and I have a feeling I might have a bad read on scumduck at times

Again, I think profii is all NAI at this point.
He could honestly be doing this 'im sorry for the way I am' as either alignment; as town honestly and as scum, because it looks town.

More NAI stuff.

Agreed. In my onion I think the first reaction test (elbirn) is fine but the second one (rask) a bit LAMIST especially considering he never really followed up on it other than his read on inferno.
VOTE: rask

I don't think rask has done anything shady but would still entertain him as scum coasting

Coasting this early seems to be immature as well.
But he has next to no presence which is cause for concern should this go unchecked.
Among other people.

Okay I'm going to just come clean this was to lead into a question of how many scum there are in the game? I have no clue

Pointless line of reasoning. Somewhere in 3-4, non-multiball unless the site meta has changed to NOT HATING MULTIBALL since I've been gone.
Back to stirring the game.

Enough time has passed that I can't be sure if it's a true memory, but I think I've incorrectly scumread Dramonic before for posting like this.

I don't blame the other guy for scumreading dram but yeah few people bother to consider him in detail.

I'm glad dayvigs are explicitly banned from normal games so that we can put the boring and utterly unhelpful gambit to rest.

S A M E

Though normally my criticism of it is surprisingly inapplicable here as this is a normal game, not themed.
Speaking of which, Magna, this is my second normal game and the only other normal I've played was where we met, long, long ago.

Why are all you peeps ignoring scumFlubber?

I mean voting Gus who has been a toxic jerk probably feels good but just because he is pompous and condescending doesn’t mean he is scum. Just that he’s a bad player in the wrong game.

Wisdom.

Also I can't recall a thing Flubber has done which is concerning.

VOTE: Flubbernugget

Wouldn't surprise me at all if {profii, inferno, gustavo} is all-town. Last two have tunnely playstyles but yeah that's NAI. Still suspect skygazer but this is good too.

Also brassherald is town.

Townreads good.
Scumreads also good. Anyone pinging your 'dar?

As said previously {inferno, gustavo, profii} likely contains 0 scum and scum have probably been watching town implode so far. Let's try to put some focus on the real scum please instead of this. Is anyone willing to defend flubber?

Yes but who *are* the scum?

ausuka town!

Honestly want her to be town but reserving the card atm.

Not sure what to think of Raskolnikov rn.

As a rule of thumb, voting someone over one tell is a bad idea

Not if they work.

Tight lipped
Aside from on inferno I don't know much of what you're thinking this game (okay it's early)
and there I kinda want to know more of what your read is now after his exchange (I have to try to guess at your meaning in 222, I mean the implication is you don't like it)

Dram is not tight-lipped.
More like responds to what interests him and finds little of interest(?).

Ok so now we have Rask content... easily town

"Easily"? No.
Content? Yes.

Nothing swayed me one way or the other and there was little new added to the overall discussion.

So, unless the duck has drastically improved his scum play since that open game, I want to say Stack the Deck, I'm pretty confident that this is town duck.

I'm also trying not to hyperpost since I'm told that is not chill

Why are you so confident?

I keep having to suppress the urge to respond to Gustavo.

Gustavo, is English your first language?

I'm not at all trying to be insulting, but I feel like the answer to this is important to my read right now.

Care to share with the class?
(I've never seen the ESL arugment go well.)

Ay Andrius

Do you know me?
Of me?

I will answer but excuse me if I wait a bit - I’m just waiting for a couple of things to happen. I have a plan

:stillwaiting:

Hello Andrius. I want to apologize to everyone for my actions before.

I am an adult, and should have been able to show more self control, and not get particularly angry with any player.

In terms of game related content, I am going to completely disregard posts from the slot before the replace out to give Andrius a fair chance since I know my emotional reads can and often will be wrong.

Mate, its fine. We just gotta not become kids to deal with the kids and remember that we are the adults and The Stalwarts and The Light must shine in the darkness. Exorcise the cancer.

Andrius is a very welcome edition.

Alisae? Is that you? >__________________>

Welcome Andrius!

Been awhile <3

out of sheer respect for Pine and excitement to be part of a fantastic list I am forcing my fluffposting down a LOT.

but if you feel like you need more from me lmk.

I don't care how often you post as long as its substantial.

I need to get to posting so that I'm above that 20 post mark.
I'd hate to be under any scrutiny.

This universally slow pace of posting also means that I might have meta-dived every single one of you by the end of the game.
That is what I tend to do when I'm bored.

Or, y'know, try to prod THIS GAME instead of meta-dive everyone when there's little rippling the waters.
Be the slayer-of-boredom you want to see in the mafia game.

You all have waaaaaay too much time on your hands if you can binge read games

Yep.

Ausuka deff looks the worst out of all players on my wagon.

I want to look at the other two wagons and still need to put all my town reads down on paper

I don't have GOOD feelings about her but, honestly, the fact she's helping a wagon is a step-up to people talking bout fluffposting/meta-diving that don't help the immediate gamestate.

At this stage I have a few soft Town reads – Inferno, Elbirn, Rask and Ausuka. Looking at the first three is should be pretty clear why … they each took risks with the way the opened the game and used those risks to generate discussion and movement out of luzl RVS territory. From there each has continued to be looking at players from an alignment standpoint enough for my tastes to say “you get an early Day 1 Town read”. Reason for Ausuka – look first at 250. Unless more than 1 of the group of profii / Inferno / Gust are scum I think her willingness to take a quasi controversial stance on those who drew early attention to themselves and got flack speaks to thinking beyond just the surface level of posts. In full disclosure she was willing to help build the mini wagon on Flubber so she gets Town points from me on that also.

Honestly helps me with my own Ausuka read rn.
Thanks mate.

Does anyone believe for a second that any player can be “coasting” less than 24 hours into the start of a game?

Absolutely not.

@Andy - Good to see you my friend. Last we talked you were retired from Mafia. More time in life now for it? Also … your predecessor looked very newb scum to me so if you are indeed Town with me here show me the obv Andy Towniness before you start bread loafing around.

Good to see you too, mate. I've been away but Pine approached me to play this game so I jumped in. Going to use this as a litmus test of sorts to see if I want to return and/or mod Spiffeh's Kingdom which gathers dust in a PT. Not really a 'time in life' thing more of a 'haven't been interested in mafia' thing. Picked up DND and that's been a blast (dramonic plays with us <3).

I don't do much baking anymore. More of The Paladin than The Baker nowadays.

Basically going to consider this my first game with Chickadee as the only other game we've been in was the couples game and I burned real hot that game.

And nobody has 100% only pursued me as a single read. Ausuka deff comes the closest though.

Yeaaaaaah.
Which is part of my concern, to be honest. Not saying I townread you, but I did notice this as well. It *could* be Ausuka's lack of presence or something but it is what it is.

what if I told you brass is town?

This.

The thing that bothers me most about flubbers posting is that their entire catch up is self focused.

Yeeeeep.

Ok brass can be town today. I think i was getting him confused with someone else when I did that list.

Glad we're on the same page.

Not sure if Gustavo would act so belligerent if he were scum, wouldn't scum want to avoid drawing that kind of attention?

Not necessarily.
Some scumplayers thrive under heavy pressure. Its the one place you wouldn't expect scum to want to hide and its there they thrive.

Skygazer is apparently a player in this game and I need to pay more attention to them now.

Omg omg omg omg omgAAAAAAAANDYYYYYYYYYY ??????????????????

:blueheart:

it means we can conftown the single most wonderful person ever ?

That's some high praise. o//o

So when you called out all players under 20 posts as needing to provide content you appeared to be using an arbitrary post count threshold instead of a content threshold. Which I found problematic.

Agreed.
Everyone has their own pace. If someone can only post once a day but does more than you (Inferno) do it forty posts I'd rather have them posting, ngl.
This is supposed to be chill.

Why SkyGazer as a first pick? I feel weird about the one slot I can't remember any of the posts from at this point but I'm not sure it is sufficient for me to support lynching that slot

This.

Okay, yeah, Skygazer, dramonic, flubber, and chick seems like a scumteam, after rereading the iso for Skygazer.

You keep drawing connections and we haven't even had a major wagon yet.
The keyword for this game is chill, mate.
Like, hold up. We got this. Let's swing one scum first and move on to the next *after* we've got one. You can't rub two poker chips together to make more if you don't got any to hold.

But someone else I’ve been stuck on is Elbirn. I keep rereading his ISO and thee is something really odd about his posting. I can’t figure out what though.VOTE: Skygazer

I'd love to actually hear some reasoning.
Because empty words are empty.

That is a weaksause response. A good read doesn’t go back and contradict itself when re-examined. You’re far too old of a player to be saying that this sort of discrepancy just “happens.”

That’s enough to garner my vote.
VOTE: dramonic

Go back to where it was before. Or elaborate on Elbirn because you're barking up the wrong tree.

Disclaimer I don't know Dram hardly at all but can confirm that my impression of him from speakeasy has been the opposite of chill and seeing all these xD smiles faces and such is like being winked at by Lucifer

A man is not defined by one facet of his personality. I am Baker and Paladin, for example. dram is serious when he needs to be and whimsy when he wishes. He's great to have around and the fact I haven't seen him in 5 years now is depressing.

I don't think it's true that my ISO is naked, I have definitely given content.

Don't think I stated this explicitly but my issue with Flubber was the thing MOI pointed out: the point on Rask being scum coasting made no sense that early.

VOTE: Skygazer is a good wagon.

You would prefer Skygazer to Flubber at this juncture? What changed your mind?

I feel like there's alot of people who don't have enough content yet for a solid read, as people like Skygazer and daveaz have just showed up to the game while people like Raskolnikov haven't been around for pages, but then I remember that we're still in the first 3 days so no pressure.

I like that Ausuka was producingcontent early on and forming reads. And more importantly, I like the actual content they were producing.

Maybe I was too hard on her.
Or maybe I was just trying to fight the bias.
Idk.

So here's the breaks. I keep feeling like I should have more but forget that 1) we're 3 days into Day One and 2) I haven't played mafia solo in over a year.
That being said.

Elbirn is leaning town to me. Bold, doesn't seem to react to any pressure. Consistent.
Magna is Magna and thus too early to commit.
Ausuka, might be leaning town and its just me sitting with more scrutiny since I was immediately like CHRONO TRIGGER and must strive to avoid bias. She gets points for helping spearhead the push on Flubber to become an actual wagon. Slightly put off by the one thing she said but.
brassherald. Town. Head in the game, perhaps too much with the toxicity deal with Ye Olde Gustavo but I get it. His head's in the game and that's more that can be said for others.
The Worst. Duck avatar. Might've started this one off on the wrong foot since, like Alisae, this reeks of 'how do you know me so well idk who you are' where I assumed it was instant buddying.
Dram is dram and, right now, you'll only lynch him over my dead body.
HitAlt. Honestly pretty low presence so far and his attitude rubbed me the wrong way earlier so he's leaning scum in my mind. Neither a high-volume poster not a high-content poster where I just wish they'd say more.
Skygazer. Will watch the wagon unfold and I sympathize with her voters but will see what happens since this might be the second real wagon we've seen thus far.
Inferno. I am having a very hard time parsing you especially given your postcount and fluff. Do you trust Magna? Do you trust Ausuka?
Chickadee. Not sure if this is just chill or I misremember LOVERS mafia but you seemed to have more presence there.
xyzzy is one of the few people embracing this CHILL vibe in the game and I wish more people would do as she did. I probably won't be a one-post-a-day player but I'll strive to be CHILL since I'm usually more RALLY THE FAITHFUL. No one's ever had to ask her for content which is something I love.
HWS, of all the people in this game you're the one person where my gut is just like TOWN. Solid posting and consistent. Care to entertain me with what you think of the [Inferno, brassherald, the worst] bloc?
Flubbernugget. I relish the fact that you're here now and am suspect that it took your wagon to get you to show up. Suspicious but, again, I'm happy to watch how this wagon parses. How do you feel about the Skygazer wagon? Composition/Skygazer herself?
Raskolnikov. Gut scumread. Admittedly I know little about you and will give your read more care since I get deja vu with how I respond to your stuff like how I dealt with Nosferatu/Zackstralkita and I'm bad at understanding people I don't get so I'm willing to be patient but you're one of the people I really need to have around more. Would really appreciate your feedback on the major wagons.
davesaz. Another person who needs to be around more. Had an early townread for something I don't really remember but that's not gonna incubate well in isolation. Anywho, like, what do you think of HitAlt? HeWhoSwims?
Profii. High volume, low content.

I'm not sure what I need right now. I know I need to just get in the game and talk to people so let's get this posted and get there so I can interact and stop wondering what to do.
VOTE: Raskolnikov While I consider the major wagons and hope this gets you to return so we can chat. Honestly, your early posting was bad and the NO LYNCH and subsequent stuff was scummy in my mind and now you're not here so come back and let's talk. And yes, I know you've only been gone a day but given I read the whole game without timestamps it seems like a lot longer in game-time.

p.s. I just reread Ausuka's 286 and what bothers me is she's like 'let's pressure the real scum' and says 'does anyone want to defend flubber'. Willing to admit I might be nitpicky here but it just reads like 'let's pressure the real scum' with the unsaid 'but someone else gets to find them as im gonna focus flubber'.

And, honestly, Inferno/Rask look the worst on the wagon so maybe I'm just being nitpicky re: Ausuka.

[Flubbernugget]

1) I'm counting this post as a strike against you on the grounds of PT slipping

It's usually a good plan to read the rules -- did you?

I skimmed them looking for this and missed it *shrug*

Don't recall the rules for how it's implemented in the normal queue. Maybe that whole shtick was restricted to opens

[Andrius]

Hey Ausuka.

What do you think of [HitAlt, Rask, The Worst]?

Here's a Lucca pic for your time. <3


-Andy

[davesaz]

davesaz. Another person who needs to be around more. Had an early townread for something I don't really remember but that's not gonna incubate well in isolation. Anywho, like, what do you think of HitAlt? HeWhoSwims?

Sample size for HitAlt is too small to make a decent read. The post where he calls a scumteam is sketchy and it's not just because I'm one of the team he called.
Vague memory that HWS was a weak townread but I'd need to re-read to be sure.

[Flubbernugget]

Davesaz - I totally get being more observant than talkative, but every time he posts, nothing really changes. There's lots of questions in his iso, but a lot of it boils down to minute clarifications that don't really read into motivations. A lot of his commentary is "I agree with this point or that point" but it's again looking through the forest ignorant of the trees.

Out of respect for Pine I'm gonna say this more quietly than I normally do.
When I say I haven't had time, that's a statement about RL, and I absolutely never lie about it.

I've noted that I am aware you are busy not once but twice

Not only that, but you truncated the second time I noted it out of the post you quoted :/