NY214: Project Pinecone (Game over! Town wins!)

[Flubbernugget]

Witholding on some other things I have to answer because I'm in class and it will take some thought to get out clearly

[Inferno390]

First things first: Andrius, that’s one heckuva wall. Are you gonna use that to keep out the Mexicans?

That being said, I do have a few questions and thoughts.
A) What was the point of that spoiler? I feel like there is very little game-moving content in it, but maybe I missed something?
B) Why does it feel to me that you have stronger reads on the people with less posts and weaker reads an the people with more posts?
C) What exactly about my post count makes me hard to parse? Shouldn’t having more posts make it easier to read me? Or are there factors within the context of those posts that’s making it hard to read me within them?
D) How much fluffposting exactly do you estimate I have, since you brought it up?
E) Would you elaborate on your Profii read?
F) Why do I look worst on the SkyGazer wagon?

Some of your reads seem non-committal. Especially on Profii, Flubbernugget, and Magna, I feel like you’d have much stronger reads on them based on content/posting. And your read on davesaz seems wishy-washy. I would love to hear more thoughts on all of them.

Gonna take a look at Ausuka and Magna now and get some thoughts on them heading your way.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So I’m still slotting Flubber as potential scum. Still unsure that his explanation that he used a poor language choice in regards to the whole Rask “coasting” post or that it was potentially scummy enough to bring up as a possibility but not worth voting early on. I find generally that Town are less concerned with how their votes are perceived and scum generally work harder at justifying their votes (or lack thereof). Additionally 445 and 446 feel like a side-step … suddenly its not that Ausuka has no other reads but “she is the worst”. In a set of three people someone will always have the lowest amount of reads. The question is whether Ausuka was pursuing other reads at all. My impression – she was and is. And even the suggestion that “PT Slipping” is a thing to scumread someone for is suspect given I know Flubber has played in games and has to know that Mafia PTs are standard.

But time to vote my darkhorse read now that he’s finally answered the questions I had outstanding for him …

VOTE: Davesaz

I’ve been suspicious of him since 124 which is a bunch of words that are mostly empty fence sitting (I find this odd but from Player X it is normal) with a profii scum reads evidenced but no accompanying vote. In general his posting is vague and non-committal. 459 I think illustrates that. And his self-meta explanation is no excuse for not being willing to give opinions (even early ones … the game has to get going with something) while being quick to criticize others for a perceived lack of opinion. Overall his ISO is mostly waffling back and forth on most issues with a few small Town or scum reads. I don’t see someone looking to find scum. Thus my vote.

Note to self – if Sky ever flips Town review 479 to 489 for possible scum.

Elbirn can join my soft Town reads as of 507.

--

@HitAlt

– It would be totes cool if you would, you know, actually explain your Chickadee read because I’m finding it a bit odd.

@Anyone not theWorst

– If you have a Town read on Brass please clue me in on why. Because 519 pretty much says his read on Sky is for low content to post ratio and after looking at brass in ISO there is way too much fluff for me not to thinks that some cogdis at work.

@xyzzy

– I’m troubled by your catchup formula that does nothing to directly organize your reads. I should not have to take detailed notes to understand who you Town or Scum read. I feel like you are trying to hide behind the links as opposed to being transparent. Who are your current Town and scum reads?

@Inferno

– While you may not understand Andy and my history it would be very suspect if he wasn’t cagey about trusting me this early. We’ve played many games together and he’s firsthand seen my scum game from both sides of the fence enough to have a healthy paranoia Day1. He was one of the partners in the game that won me this banner. If you want an entertaining story ask him about Black Lanterns. In fact if he (who knows me better than I think the rest of the game combined) was solid on me as Town right now I’d think he was scum trying to buddy me. So feel free to prod on Flubber and Profii and others but don’t expect anything solid out of him on me until at least tomorrow.

[davesaz]

replace out

I'm too hot blooded and in this specific situation I'm unwilling to fuck up the atmosphere.
After my replacement flips town please examine your head.

[brassherald]

@Anyone not theWorst

– If you have a Town read on Brass please clue me in on why. Because 519 pretty much says his read on Sky is for low content to post ratio and after looking at brass in ISO there is way too much fluff for me not to thinks that some cogdis at work.

I may have misspoke, because what you have here is not what I meant.

I meant that I expected more actual content from him by this point, not that its a ratio issue. Also, he didn't do that many fluff posts, he's just posting like useless stuff that kind of seems designed to look like more than it actually is.

Like, if people want to do fluff posts, go for it, I love laughing and having fun, but Skygazer doesn't seem to be doing anything really, he's just there and it looks to me like he's trying to look like he's game solving without actually gamesolving.

Back to being quiet some more to follow the rule of chill.

[Elbirn]

@Elbirn: I never said you were scummy. I just said your ISO was off and I didn’t know why.

But then what does this even mean? If feeling like I'm "off" doesnt mean that you feel like I'm scummy then what even do you intend to convey mate?

There’s something tonally pinging about your posts but I can’t tell if it’s just your playstyle or something else.
You’re not necessarily scummy, just someone I need to take another look at so I can sort you.

Please do so asap and report your findings, wishywashy weaksauce does not sit well with me.

@Flubber - you asked why I am town reading Ausuka. I just pulled a few things.

I like that Ausuka was producingcontent early on and forming reads. And more importantly, I like the actual content they were producing.

VOTE: No Lynch

Well this is worse than giving us yourself as scum, Elbirn. Wanna wagon your scum buddy here?

Why is this scummy to you?

VOTE: Skygazer

I feel like the description of raskol's NL vote as "LAMIST" is probably the scummiest thing in the thread so far.

With this next quote, I just cant see any scum motivation in it. It's an effort on Ausuka's part to stop the toxic behaivor, and scum benefits more from sitting back.

As said previously {inferno, gustavo, profii} likely contains 0 scum and scum have probably been watching town implode so far. Let's try to put some focus on the real scum please instead of this. Is anyone willing to defend flubber?

Chick, mediating arguments is NAI because scum doesn't have to reason about alignment to be able to do it.

DING DING DING

Easiest way to grab towncred is to feign level headedness and act like you want a cohesive town, it requires zero analysis or effort towards game solving but makes you look good. Especially useful considering that going "hey guys stop arguing" does *absolutely nothing to stop an argument*

In other words your argument is weak sauce grrl

[Flubbernugget]

So do you actually have a read on Ausuka or nah

[Elbirn]

So do you actually have a read on Ausuka or nah

Oh heavens no I just like to talk shit. I'm at work right now and that post was the best contribution I could muster

[Elbirn]

I think if anything my post should be read as a critique of chick, who I have got rumblies about

[Inferno390]

@Elbirn:
I think it may be just your enterance. IMO it seems incredibly pushy to get votes handed in your direction, which I find odd. I’m not sure why you would push people to vote yourself.
The more you post though, the better I feel about you. There doesn’t seem to be any fakeness to your posting, and you’re making good points and spreading pressure around in the right spots.

If I had to place you, it would be a strong town lean.

[Inferno390]

@Andrius: On Ausuka, I’m not really impressed with her posting. Most of her contributions have actually been defending Profii and your slot. There’s not a lot of reads of her own in there or original thoughts in terms of hunting. She’s really just sheeping on her wagons rn. Probably a scumlean.

@Ausuka: Are you ever gonna actually give us a read on Sky or no?

[Skygazer]

sky- I didn’t like that unvote but I appreciate not everyone has loads of time - I certainly avoid games any bigger than this because I am not sharp enough to keep up properly so I’d like to say to sky please provide 3 scum reads and why

Three top scumreads for the moment, in order:
dave's slot, as I've already discussed
Ausuka for sheeping/hopping onto wagons, lack of reads, lack of reasonings, etc. I said earlier that I think there's at least one opportunistic scum on my wagon and I think this is the most likely option in regards to that.
Flubber, I don't like how he jumped on chickadee for "PT-slipping" when it's clearly stated in the rules, and there's the whole "coasting" post that Magna pointed out

I lost my grasp on the chickadee scumread after rereading her and seeing more content than I remembered and I like her most recent interaction/vote on flubber.

Skygazer, can you point to any specific Elbirn posts that have you town reading him?

22, 75, 77 and 79 feel like he's genuinely trying to create content early on. I don't really get how people are scumreading these for being pushy when the pushiness was useful in helping us get out of rvs. 125 doesn't have game content but I'm reading it as relaxed/carefree which is a towntell imo. I also like 507.

[Skygazer]

Strong townreads so far in order: brass, MoI, Andrius, and elbirn

brass has lots of good content which imo definitely outweighs the fluff, and I like the fact that he's genuinely trying to keep his fluff posting down now
MoI continues to post good content and I like their reads for the most part
I like Andrius's 570 and like I stated earlier I don't see gus's behavior coming from scum
I talked about elbirn in my last post

[Ausuka]

You're going to maintain the assertion that you've given thoughts on Sky?

VOTE: Skygazer

I feel like the description of raskol's NL vote as "LAMIST" is probably the scummiest thing in the thread so far.

Yes I will. The above still applies for me.

[Ausuka]

@Elbirn: I never said you were scummy. I just said your ISO was off and I didn’t know why.

But then what does this even mean? If feeling like I'm "off" doesnt mean that you feel like I'm scummy then what even do you intend to convey mate?

There’s something tonally pinging about your posts but I can’t tell if it’s just your playstyle or something else.
You’re not necessarily scummy, just someone I need to take another look at so I can sort you.

Nah.

What do you mean by “nah?”

I wasn't talking to you I think I accidentally just clicked Q+ on your post. I was responding to davesaz.

[Ausuka]

Ausuka, nice Lucca avatar. I remember playing that game when I was, like, 5 and loving Magus. One of the few games that manages time travel with multiple timelines and doesn't botch it all under its own weight.

Thanks ^.^ I like the game too ofc, except Lucca is my favourite character instead of Magus

VOTE: Flubbernugget

Wouldn't surprise me at all if {profii, inferno, gustavo} is all-town. Last two have tunnely playstyles but yeah that's NAI. Still suspect skygazer but this is good too.

Also brassherald is town.

Townreads good.
Scumreads also good. Anyone pinging your 'dar?

Scumreading skygazer and flubbernugget so far, unsure where the other two scum would be.

As said previously {inferno, gustavo, profii} likely contains 0 scum and scum have probably been watching town implode so far. Let's try to put some focus on the real scum please instead of this. Is anyone willing to defend flubber?

Yes but who *are* the scum?

sky and flubber.

I don't think it's true that my ISO is naked, I have definitely given content.

Don't think I stated this explicitly but my issue with Flubber was the thing MOI pointed out: the point on Rask being scum coasting made no sense that early.

VOTE: Skygazer is a good wagon.

You would prefer Skygazer to Flubber at this juncture? What changed your mind?

Skygazer got a wagon so a vote there was more useful. I honestly suspect them both roughly equally.

p.s. I just reread Ausuka's 286 and what bothers me is she's like 'let's pressure the real scum' and says 'does anyone want to defend flubber'. Willing to admit I might be nitpicky here but it just reads like 'let's pressure the real scum' with the unsaid 'but someone else gets to find them as im gonna focus flubber'.

That was definitely not what I was trying to say. I think that flubber and sky were the real scum and most of the posting was related to Inferno/gustavo/profii back then iirc.

[Ausuka]

Hey Ausuka.

What do you think of [HitAlt, Rask, The Worst]?

Unsure what to make of hitalt, maybe a townlean because some of their posting seems odd to come from scum? Like asking me how good my scumgame is is an odd thing to ask as scum and feels more likely to be town going down some sort of rabbit hole. Good scum could probs fake it but meh.

Rask is a townlean to me, feels genuine and I think scum jumped on him for his NL vote.

the worst I'd also categorize as a townlean, he's good at scum but is also apparently really apathetic towards playing it nowadays and he doesn't look like that this game. Nothing about him pings me especially.

Here's a Lucca pic for your time. <3

-Andy

Thanks

[Ausuka]

@Ausuka: Are you ever gonna actually give us a read on Sky or no?

I've voted sky twice and talked about scumreading her for a disingenuous Rask vote. Seriously I do not get this attitude.

[Ausuka]

I'm pretty sure I was the first to suspect Skygazer so it also makes no sense that she called me opportunistic scum on her.

Sorry for multiposting I should stop now.

[HitAlt]

Sorry, just remembered this. I would describe myself as a pretty bad scum player. I consistently fail to get myself widely townread and usually get vigged or lynched because I guess I'm just bad at genuinely faking a town thought process. However I think I'm more charismatic as scum than town maybe because I sometimes get mislynch bait lynched instead of myself even when I'm really scummy.

Good, honest answer. Very accurate, I'd say.
Not saying you would blatantly lie about it as scum either, but maybe the answer wouldn't be as clear cut about getting mislynches.
Townlean on Ausuka.

[HitAlt]

I tried to do a thing. Like a honey thing.
With a scumread who I also thought might be a lynchbait.
So I'd say we lynch there today, and if it flips town, we almost know there's scum in the wagon as of now.

[xyzzy]

476 - tbh Flubbernugget responding with a comment that he's not really engaging with the rest of the players by citing his engagement with a useless, probably meaningless argument that resulted in a force replace isn't a great look
478 - this is very true and this analysis makes me a little cautious of Inferno390.
479 - I don't like this HitAlt post very much. it's literally the only time they've referenced any of these users at all. I can't really comment on the quality of this group as a potential scum team, but I dislike posts that declare a bunch of players to be scum together with literally no supporting evidence given.
489 - this vote from Inferno390 feels opportunistic.
496 - this davesaz post is good.
503 - this interaction between dramonic and Inferno390 feels like it could be bussy.
508 - it's a subforum that you have to join a particular usergroup to gain access to. it's the Cool Hangout Spot where you get to know people on site.
514 - yeah I don't feel great about the Skygazer wagon b/c most of the people on it haven't really offered any actual justification for their votes
516 - Elbirn, you can be incorrect without being scummy, and it's worthwhile to point out when people are wrong.
530 - profii, what do you mean when you say that my posts like this one don't really go anywhere? do you mean that you're hoping I'll have some kind of thesis tying up the points I make? if so, that's not really the purpose of these posts, and I try to avoid making broad statements before I feel confident about them. as for my reasoning for joining the wagon, it basically amounted to 1)the no lynch vote was scummy and 2)I like joining early wagons.
546 - hmm idk sounds like something someone who wanted to argue with the mod would say
547 - I like this Flubbernugget post.
565 - post 180 isn't mine. can you clarify?
570 - Andrius feels very town with this post. all these reads feel very real and organic.
576 - a lot of these points feel like Inferno390 is willfully misinterpreting Andrius' post.
577 - that's not an unreasonable complaint regarding my posting style, but I often do these types of catch-ups; it's been well over a year since the last time I played in a regular, non-gimmick game that wasn't a micro where I didn't replace in, but if you go back to any of my games from around 2016-early 2017, you're likely to find me posting similarly irrespective of alignment. I'll make a reads post tomorrow once I've had more time to think things through. mostly my intent with posting this way is that it's easier for me to keep track of my own reads later on--my brain is too full of ADHD to remember things like who I was scumreading yesterday, so for anything longer than a marathon game, I have to structure things in such a way that I can remember how I feel. which, like, sounds like I'm being non-genuine with my reads, but like I said, you can find town games of mine where I played the exact same way. that being said I'm definitely scum reading Inferno390 at this point, hence the vote at the bottom of this post.
586 - I really, really like this response to my question, and am townreading Skygazer.

VOTE: Inferno390

[profii]

I guess I just haven't played with you before and I'm getting familiar with your playstyle.

you often see people think they have spotted something scummy and go 'look guys - look at this, this must be scum!' - the first list post was your first significant contribution after a bit of a gap/catchup and I didn't really see that push in any particular direction, so I was a bit like eh.

I kinda look for scum to be arranging certain things for long game town cred - so like my post about ausuka/flubber voting in a particular pattern but I guess I don't see that from you either, so I guess it make sense if this is your style and it kinda helps me ratify my position that flubber was more scummy than you in the Rask wagon.

I'll look at skygazer again now...

[profii]

Skygazer is one to watch for now, can kinda see why there is a big wagon there, but I fancy Flubber for it rn. Would d1-hammer either tbh.

[xyzzy]

oh btw this game has given me another chance to use this image I made a long time ago