Mini 2018 - American Presidents Mafia (Game Over)

[Irrelephant11]

Townreading Errant, Shoshin, Momrangal
Townleaning Nauci, Skitter, Gustavo
Null-reading Mathdino, Bernie Sanders, Gamma Emerald
Scumleaning the worst, Keyser Soze, Not_Mafia

I’m don’t hard object to the idea of a Gamma lynch but I’m not sure enough for L-1
I’d love if math and tw would come back to the thread

[Gustavo]

I don’t know what I should read now.

[Irrelephant11]

Like you’re bored and looking for something to read? Just... start at the beginning? There’s AI stuff as early as page 2

[Gustavo]

I need to find the 3rd scum. I’m not reading the entire game though. I guess I can just iso random people

[the worst]

TW: you've played with Gus, right? What's your opinion of this stubbornness?

I haven't played with Gus before I've just read some of his games! He's not a popular boi and he's always stubborn

[the worst]

I'm bored os anuone around?

[Shoshin]

Irrelephant, I don't townread Errant at all from his opening posts. Why are you?

[Irrelephant11]

hi duck

@shoshin partially for the meme, partially because I thought nsg's vote was a town vote and errant didn't ruin that yet

also "this is the towniest post in the game" isn't how scum would enter I don't think? Let alone twice?

How are you reading him?

[Irrelephant11]

I always dive in this soon, and often catch scum in the first couple pages and everything. No reason to delay hunting.

Ever done the same as scum? I.e scum reading hard a fellow scum team mate?

Adding this to things I don't like from Keyser.
Also, this is on page 2, so @Nauci...

@replacements: this game has had a lot of meaty posting starting as early as page 5 and I honestly recommend skimming everything. There are wall posts from people like irrelephant, skitter, myself, etc. where we respond to lots of little details which can be skipped, but read over any of the read list posts and votes that have happened thus far.

why recommend page 5 when this game was out of RVS in page 1?

[the worst]

[Shoshin]

Irrelephant, I didn't think that post was that townie, it felt like the sort of thing scum who knows you're town would read it. I didn't like EP's post, felt scummy to me.

[Gustavo]

Adding this to things I don't like from Keyser.

What was wrong with that post? Where are the other things you don’t like?

My predecessor felt strong he was town. Idk why yet but I want to see why you don’t agree

[Gamma Emerald]

@Nauci I never asked about scum!irrelephant?
And how am I your other top pick based on that logic?

You asked me how the Gustavo interactions helped my reads, so I explained the two reads that I now have more data points for because of his interactions

You are the other poster who is currently active and needs a lot more engagement to swing my scum vibe, versus nsg/tw/etc.

I have no idea how to even get nm to converse so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

A lot more engagement how? If I need to be more engaged, what the fuck do you want from me? If others need to be more engaged with me that's placing the burden of removing the scumread on other people which isn't fair to me because regardless of what I do if no one else does what you want "oh no one is engaging with him, SCUM!!!!"

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: gamma

The fact he’s not voted all game and his first vote is on me and his reason basically implies he knows I’m town is a red flag for me

I can’t be scum who doesn’t give a shit if I’m wrong. I’m fairly obviously town. He’s not scum hunting imo.

How can't you be that? Despite half or more of the game telling you you're wrong you're still bullrushing the "shoshin is scum for lying" idea. As I see it you will never consider a counterargument because it doesn't fit your scum agenda.

[Irrelephant11]

Adding this to things I don't like from Keyser.

What was wrong with that post?

Where are the other things you don’t like?

My predecessor felt strong he was town. Idk why yet but I want to see why you don’t agree

1. Shoshin was like "I like to trip up scum asap in every game" and Keyser was like "Okay but if that works this time couldn't you still be scum though" (obviously this is just one interpretation of his words but it's the one I'm reading rn)
2.

A lot of shoshin's reason-less votes have been toward the end of creating wagons imo
That's what's pro-town about her play and her voting

Have you read my 879?
Look at math (who hasn't delivered on his Wednesday reads he promised),

keyser (who I scumcased in 897)

, and gamma emerald if you want to see scummy voting (or lack therof)

@gamma did you sort Nauci yet

[Gamma Emerald]

I should be able to sort Nauci after they respond the my last post to them

[Shoshin]

Hey the worst, any thoughts on Errant?

[Irrelephant11]

Irrelephant, I didn't think that post was that townie, it felt like the sort of thing scum who knows you're town would read it. I didn't like EP's post, felt scummy to me.

why?

[Gustavo]

VOTE: gamma

The fact he’s not voted all game and his first vote is on me and his reason basically implies he knows I’m town is a red flag for me

I can’t be scum who doesn’t give a shit if I’m wrong. I’m fairly obviously town. He’s not scum hunting imo.

How can't you be that? Despite half or more of the game telling you you're wrong you're still bullrushing the "shoshin is scum for lying" idea. As I see it you will never consider a counterargument because it doesn't fit your scum agenda.

Being wrong implies I don’t know sho’s alignment. So I can’t be wrong and scum.

I can be scum pushing a mislynch but you didn’t say that. I could easily call that a scum slip on your part.

Me as scum would be stupid to push somebody everyone is town reading because of the negative attention I’d receive, and look. I’m receiving negative attention.

[Gustavo]

Shoshin was like "I like to trip up scum asap in every game" and Keyser was like "Okay but if that works this time couldn't you still be scum though" (obviously this is just one interpretation of his words but it's the one I'm reading rn)

Ok but I still don’t understand what’s wrong with it. Sho as scum could easily replicate his town play. But sho has a terrible track record at finding scum so nobody should listen to him when he brags.

[Irrelephant11]

Shoshin is still a woman, btw

It's just a weird question coming from Keyser. He doesn't ask "Do you replicate this way of getting out of RVS as scum?" he specifically asks "Do you replicate this strategy as scum and actually lynch your own partners?"

I can't think of myself ever asking that as town at that point

Whereas scum afraid of being caught having "taken the bait" (something he gets weirdly focused on for long after everyone else has stopped talking about it) might lampshade the idea that if Shoshin had successfully caught scum that could somehow be scum-indicative for her, which doesn't make sense?

[Keyser Söze]

It's just a weird question coming from Keyser. He doesn't ask "Do you replicate this way of getting out of RVS as scum?" he specifically asks "Do you replicate this strategy as scum and actually lynch your own partners?"

I can't think of myself ever asking that as town at that point

Whereas scum afraid of being caught having "taken the bait" (something he gets weirdly focused on for long after everyone else has stopped talking about it) might lampshade the idea that if Shoshin had successfully caught scum that could somehow be scum-indicative for her, which doesn't make sense?

I'll let Nauci attempt to explain my play again, and how you've miss-read it.

You are short-sighted in viewing my behaviour mate. [

I don't see it as scum-Irrelephant miss-repping me though, just town-Irrelephant being very shortsighted

]

@Nauci - over to you.

[Irrelephant11]

I'm completely open to you explaining yourself? And confused why you won't

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: gamma

The fact he’s not voted all game and his first vote is on me and his reason basically implies he knows I’m town is a red flag for me

I can’t be scum who doesn’t give a shit if I’m wrong. I’m fairly obviously town. He’s not scum hunting imo.

How can't you be that? Despite half or more of the game telling you you're wrong you're still bullrushing the "shoshin is scum for lying" idea. As I see it you will never consider a counterargument because it doesn't fit your scum agenda.

Being wrong implies I don’t know sho’s alignment. So I can’t be wrong and scum.

I can be scum pushing a mislynch but you didn’t say that. I could easily call that a scum slip on your part.

Me as scum would be stupid to push somebody everyone is town reading because of the negative attention I’d receive, and look. I’m receiving negative attention.

I'm not saying you're wrong about your read. I'm saying your logic is wrong. Multiple people have objected to your reasoning and you haven't taken any of it in. Whether it's a mislynch is irrelevant tbh but more than likely, it is. And I don't recall everyone townreading Shoshin?

[Keyser Söze]

Gamma Emerald ISO re-read:

Entitled 'A Tale of WIFOM'.
Took over 5 posts to get Gamma to share a simple observation/opinion/read, despite a page one break from RVS.
Told me he wants to "kick back" this game, so indirectly acknowledges his distant/laboured start. I wanted The Incredible Hulk, he was giving me comatose Bruce Banner.
Early game, seemed to be more interested in finding out who Bernie Sanders was an alt of instead of finding out who was scum
Gamma then challenges both Shoshin and Invisibility. Would class it as pro-active surface level scum hunting. He's looking for meaning, but it's easy work so far, so not gonna applaud.
Gamma talks a bit game theory with Soshin. Playing the nice/helpful guy so far... but later says skitter's "logic kinda seems weak". I prefer this more pointed play. Still not enough aggressive scum hunting for me though.
I called his early play "distant and nice", Gamma comes back and says: "I want to enjoy this as much as possible, getting into a big stink kinda defeats that goal". Gamma is fully aware (or says he is fully aware) of the non-aggressive tone he is demonstrating. Thus, he acknowledges he'll likely stick out among the loud/abrasive/tenacious characters in the playerlist.

Keyser if you put your sus on me aside for the moment who do you think is scum?

I kinda question the motive of this type of post: it reads like trying to subtly make someone drop the read they're being told to set aside

This suspicion involves me as the victim, so it resonated with me for a while, and added another shade to my suspicion of Bernie Sanders. I hope Gamma follows up this with more questions to BS.

What have I done to deserve being higher? You haven't seemed to have that high of an opinion of me so far so this is off-color imo.

Yes, feels like Gamma questioning the sincerity of my frustration/suspicion of his slot. He notices a CONTRADICTION. But it does demonstrate he is actually

very aware

of players who are not town reading him (I never called him outright 'scum', but I have been keeping him in my sight all game, nudging and poking him).

Decides NSG's rep out wasn't AI: "Yeah nsg flaking out is ehhh but given the ubiquitous drop-out I think it's passable". Wouldn't scum want to keep all replace out slots in the lynchable zone?

[INSERT FROM LATER]

one thing I can say is relevant is the idea that the replace outs were all scum.

Oh... Gamma has changed his tune.. please confirm Gamma



Still too much fixation over who he thinks BS is. Needs to be more serious.

Defends Momrangel over Bernie's accusation that her stances were not actually stances/sitting on hard-read people. Is Gamma developing a scum read on Bernie...?

I have multiple townreads but no scumreads

Not even a s/lean on Bernie?
[LATER]

Bernie Sanders kinda feels town

OK, I was way off. Definitely thought he cast some doubt in your head surely though...?

I haven't voted once

Gamma's "no scumreads" comment is backed up by the point that he hasn't voted anyone. However, if he's finding it hard to sort players why not use your vote? He surely isn't hard town reading everyone. Why not step on people's toes, provoke reactions, follow up your suspicions. You can't play this sit-on-fence periphery figure without expecting the wrath of other players questioning your behaviour (quite a WIFOM element in favour of him, as it would be so easy to lynch him for his backseat persona). The way he said "I haven't voted once" sounded like he was open and proud of that fact too

Gustavo is the ONE player I feel Gamma has interacted with directly (with emotion?). Gamma does look torn on Gustavo.

These are Gamma's null/scum leans:

Nauci tbd
Momrangal haven't gotten anything solid yet
Not_Mafia a bit scummish
the worst could be scum
Gustavo could be irrational town or scum
northsidegal blech

I wish I'd seen more direct interactions with these players. A town player should be showing more signs of frustration with so many unresolved players.

A lot more engagement how? If I need to be more engaged, what the fuck do you want from me? If others need to be more engaged with me that's placing the burden of removing the scumread on other people which isn't fair to me because regardless of what I do if no one else does what you want "oh no one is engaging with him, SCUM!!!!"

Oh dear lord.

*FEELS INTENSFIES*

has Gamma finally cracked?




Some conclusions soon.

@Gamma - what do you think my read of you should be right now, based on my above opinions of your play so far?