NY 213 - Game Over!

[Almost50]

But I wont fight a wave lynch since he's not much better and it's infinitely better than performer.

Are we aiming to lynch

scum

, or are we punishing people for their bad play?

I mean, sure.. wave didn't do much (except he has reads, and if he hasn't mentioned someone as a TR then I assume they're in his lynch pool), but the question is: Is he scum? Do you think scum will go "lynch me.. I'm just a VT in a neighborhood, but I'm not telling you who else is in that hood" and then continue to play the same way that got him SR'd in the first place?

[Ircher]

Day 1 VC #32

Performer (8) - EspeciallyTheLies (515), Kublai Khan (957), Wavemode (1108), Vaxkiller (1116), Lalendra (1229), Osuka (1384), ArcAngel9 (1397), Hopkirk (1458)

Almost50 (0) -
Golden Robster (0) -
Pine (0) -
Creature (0) -
Kublai Khan (0) -
Hopkirk (0) -
Gamma Emerald (0) -
Ausuka (0) -
Lalendra (0) -
Davesaz (0) -
JarJarDrinks (2) - Myloninja13 (326), Andriod18 (855)
Osuka (2) - Pine (176),

TheRampage

PenguinPower (681)
Andriod18 (3) - JarJarDrinks (1410), Creature (1449), Almost50 (1460)
Texcat (1) - Dunnstral (1388)
ArcAngel9 (0) -
Vaxkiller (1) - Golden Robster (602)

Wavemode (5) - Ausuka (998), Davesaz (1014), Performer (1051), Texcat (1080), Gamma Emerald (1107)

PenguinPower (0) -
Myloninja13 (0) -
Scioness Sajj (0) -
Flavor Leaf (1) - WhemeStar (955)
Not Voting (2) - Flavor Leaf, Scioness Sajj (1325)

Lynch Threshold

During day 1, it takes 13 votes to lynch a player.

Deadline

Day 1 ends on June 30, 2018 8:00 PM EDT (GMT-4:00) or in (expired on 2018-06-30 20:15:00).

Moderator Notes

Moderator is V/LA July 1 and July 4.
EspeciallyTheLies is V/LA for an indefinite time.

Scioness Sajj V/LA until July 2.
Andriod18 V/LA until Saturday, June 30.
As a general reminder, if you are regularly V/LA on the weekends, you must either set V/LA tags each weekend or post in-thread that you'll be V/LA over the weekend

each weekend

so that both I and other players can keep track of it easily.
If you notice any mistakes, please point them out. (That includes looking at the voting history.)

Spoiler: Current Voting History

Day 1

Dunnstral: Osuka (77) --> Texcat (1388)
Srceenplay (0): (Null)
Peformer: Osuka (623) --> TheRampage (909) --> Wavemode (1051)
Joral (0): (Null)
Almost50: Hopkirk (97) --> Edosurist (226) --> Osuka (390) -->

Ausuka

(1205) --> (Null) (1304) --> Vaxkiller (1352) --> (Null) (1380) --> Andriod18 (1460)
Fumuki (0): (Null)
Golden Robster: Almost50 (177) --> Wavemode (183) --> Osuka (236) -->

Ausuka (317)

--> JarJarDrinks (319) --> (Null) (546) --> Vaxkiller (602)
Pine: Osuka (176)
Creature: Performer (385) --> Myloninja13 (720) --> TheRampage (813) --> Performer (898) --> Andriod18 (1449)
Kublai Khan: Osuka (76) --> Almost50 (122) --> Scioness Sajj (388) --> JarJarDrinks (536) --> Osuka (725) --> Performer (957)
WhemeStar: Lalendra (234) --> JarJarDrinks (797) --> Flavor Leaf (955)
Hopkirk: Osuka (90) --> Lalendra (279) --> Osuka (696) --> (Null) (993) --> Wavemode (999) --> Performer (1273) --> (Null) (1315) --> Performer (1458)
Edosurist: Texcat (84) --> Almost50 (222)
Gamma Emerald: Vaxkiller (710) --> Wavemode (1107)

Ausuka

: JarJarDrinks (89) --> Creature (104) --> Myloninja13 (429) --> (Null) (742) --> TheRampage (743) --> Wavemode (998)
Lalendra: Almost50 (209) --> (Null) (559) --> Performer (1229)
EspeciallyTheLies: Almost50 (83) --> Performer (515)
Lovebird (1): Edosurist (259)
Davesaz: Wavemode (1014)
JarJarDrinks: Osuka (85) --> Almost50 (114) --> Charles510 (186) --> Edosurist (231) --> Osuka (535) -->

Ausuka

(842) --> Wavemode (1112) --> Andriod18 (1410)
Osuka: Wavemode (80) --> JarJarDrinks (124) --> ArcAngel9 (229) --> Pine (332) --> JarJarDrinks (353) --> Performer (769) --> TheRampage (771) --> Performer (1047) --> Vaxkiller (1359) --> Performer (1384)
Texcat: Osuka (79) --> Wavemode (1080)
Andriod18: Kublai Khan (190) --> Lovebird (290) --> JarJarDrinks (855)
ArcAngel9: Texcat (81) --> TheRampage (223) --> Texcat (604) --> Performer (1397)
Charles510 (2): JarJarDrinks (87) --> (Null) (310)
Vaxkiller: JarJarDrinks (363) --> Scioness Sajj (389) --> Andriod18 (437) --> JarJarDrinks (532) --> Golden Robster (678) --> Wavemode (1078) --> TheRampage (1085) --> Performer (1116)
Wavemode: Texcat (82) --> Charles510 (131) --> (Null) (838) --> Osuka (867) --> Performer (1108)
TheRampage (3): Creature (100) --> (Null) (509) --> Osuka (681)
Myloninja13: Edosurist (233) --> JarJarDrinks (326)
Scioness Sajj:

Ausuka

(406) --> (Null) (1325)

Spoiler: Previous Voting History

Pre-Game

Dunnstral (2): Texcat (9) --> Pine (43)
Srceenplay (1): Andriod18 (62)
Pine (1): Osuka (16)
Kublai Khan (1): Pine (34)
Hopkirk (1): Osuka (66)
Edosurist (1): Pine (42)
Osuka (2): Pine (28) --> Wavemode (33)
Texcat (1): Pine (44)
Wavemode (1): Osuka (31)

[JarJarDrinks]

Are we aiming to lynch

scum

, or are we punishing people for their bad play?

Yes

[Kublai Khan]

I'm kinda wavering on Performance. Wavemode is challenging the top levels of the scummy charts.

I don't know if this game is active or coordinated enough to change course though.

What do you mean on Wave there, that could read one of two ways.

Well, scum who claim on Day 1 are in a bad position where they can't do much for their team because they don't know tracker/watcher/etc situation of the town. So I kinda mentally put them on a backburner. But Wavemode's unprompted naming 3 people on his wagon as town feels manipulative and self-serving.

[wavemode]

so scum want the people on their wagon to be seen as town lmao. okay NOW I've heard the funniest theory for scum!wave

anywho, i'm off work so i'll write up what GE asked for

[JarJarDrinks]

so scum want the people on their wagon to be seen as town lmao.

That's not what he said. He said it was manipulative and self-serving. As in you're trying to buddy up to those people so they back off you.

[wavemode]

yeah and i'm saying that's literally never self-serving in real life lmao. i don't know what shit kind of newbie games you play in where people back off you because you call them town but that's super awful strategy

in fact im curious, can someone link me an example of that EVER working on ANYONE? even in a newbie game? like, i've literally never heard of that

[JarJarDrinks]

U've heard of OMGUS right ? Is it impossible to believe the opposite might have a reverse effect?

Like why does scum buddy?

[wavemode]

im not talking about playing devil's advocate for a lynch target. im talking about someone scumreading you and you call them town and then they go "well gee this guy is actually pretty swell". it's a fairy tale

not sure why i even got roped into this debate. ausuka is already conftown and i didn't call dave town, i just said i was maybe leaning that way. so the whole basis of this argument is flawed in two respects, A. that your argument would hold true whether i called these people town OR scum, because it's either omgus or im trying to buddy them, and B. that i literally only called one person on my wagon town, and it's someone i've played a lot of games with Gamma Emerald

[Kublai Khan]

yeah and i'm saying that's literally never self-serving in real life lmao. i don't know what shit kind of newbie games you play in where people back off you because you call them town but that's super awful strategy

in fact im curious, can someone link me an example of that EVER working on ANYONE? even in a newbie game? like, i've literally never heard of that

You've never heard of subtle emotional manipulations in a mafia game? How long have you been playing mafia?

People don't respond with "well gee this guy is actually pretty swell", but it can be the little nudge that pushes a wavering player to compromise. So, no. I can't link you to an example.

[wavemode]

response to the fact that the basis of your argument was false in the first place?

[Performer]

off topic: someone scumreading you, then you reevaluate them and they're actually townie rather than scum, isn't farfetched. In my game observations and my personal experience , it seems that less-experienced players are more easily paranoid about situations like that, but I don't believe that alone is AI for the wagon victim.

It matters if we look at the context, how they arrived at that conclusion. So, if someone is wagoned, they say "oh, wagoner A is actually town after I reevaluated so and so" - that could be town providing more information for fellow town.
On the other hand, it could be a complex scum strategy. Depends on the situation and how day & the following days unfold, in terms of interactions & flips.

[Dunnstral]

Would anyone mind if golden was gone Day 2?

Uh, I'd mind

[Dunnstral]

So because once upon a time a traitor outed their neighborhood in a completely different setup, Ausuka is a traitor in this game for outing her neighborhood

This was the logic A50 was operating on

I'm just one extra slot

We both need to readjust and reenter the game ASAP.

Weird interaction here btw

why the sudden focus on A50?

Not really focusing on him, just said what came to mind and they happened to both be about him

[Dunnstral]

@mod V/la for 3 days

Did the mini wagon forming here see this?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

It's a tactical mistake to try to change wagons to a completely new one with such an inactive game, so late in the day.
If everyone was posting every 2-3 hours or faster it would be different. At this rate it will be hard enough to consolidate on a big wagon.

Someone's going to make the value proposition point on a Performer lynch. It is true that we get more information there, but I think the probability of it being scum is lower. For the record, I do see the things that Performer is being scumread for and would be willing to compromise there as needed. I can't tell if the town-motivated things I'm seeing from Performer are really coming from town or just scum making a decent effort at trying to save things.

I don't know vaxkiller well enough to know if the vig claim is likely to be a gambit. It would be pretty dangerous to fakeclaim as scum if there is a vig in the game, and equally dangerous to fakeclaim if there isn't one unless lack of a 2nd kill can be easily explained.

you should invest in a good pair of shears for that massive hedge.

[Hopkirk]

How do people feel about Dave?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

How do people feel about Dave?

scummy, but not for today - there's not enough time.

perf scum flip implicates texcat and dave strongly.

i have a quiet evening tonight for the first time in ages, so i plan to post my consolidated performer case.

there is absolutely zero reason to not lynch him today. all this talk about "information lynch" or "lurker lynch" is all complete and utter bullshit and none of that matters in the face of

lynching actual scum

.

i am so fucking confident performer is scum here, and i wish people would be more attentive and actually look rather than just skimming the surface and chasing idiotic vanity wagons at the 11th hour.

[davesaz]

WTF are you talking about, hedge?
My position is as clear as day.
I want Wavemode lynched.
If you <insert favorite term for diminished mental capacity folk here> won't lynch Wave then I'm willing to vote for Performer.
I'm absolutely not voting anyone else under any circumstances.

[Vaxkiller]

At this point ppl need to move to perfomer.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

TO THE VIG

Proper play in this case is if the lynch flips green, you shoot the competing wagon. If the lynch flips red, you shoot on association or hold your shot if you can.

A good place to look is the voting composition of the competing wagon, especially when it's a strong one with nearly equal votes at their peak. Partners are guaranteed to be there. Look at how the particular votes happened and when - what else was going on in the thread at the time - not just the voter's play as that is obviously going to be deceiving in most cases.

The one thing you DO NOT ever do is announce your target - this gives scum too much information.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

WTF are you talking about, hedge?
My position is as clear as day.
I want Wavemode lynched.

Your position on your partner, Performer.

[davesaz]

Laughable.

[JarJarDrinks]

TO THE VIG

Proper play in this case is if the lynch flips green, you shoot the competing wagon. If the lynch flips red, you shoot on association or hold your shot if you can.

FUCK THAT

You shoot a lurker.

[davesaz]

Replace out

Done with mafia.
See my sig.
Adios.
Fuck you very much.