NY214: Project Pinecone (Game over! Town wins!)

[HeWhoSwims]

VOTE: HitAlt L-3 I think

[HitAlt]

Is your response literally "how dare you scumread me, a player you supposedly don't know the alignment of!"

Damn the spam - I missed your ninjapost..
My answer might come across like that, but you are not detecting as much as I am if that is how you feel..
If I survive to D3/D4 (remember, this is LAAAAAAAARGE), I feel certain that we either have the scumteam locked, or I'm nightkilled after laying everything on the table.
Not arrogant, just confident.
And I like hot chocolate pver coffee.

EBWOP - please take that vote off at least until I can do something other than phonepost.

[Skygazer]

I... What?

843: you've literally put no pressure on me, just stated over and over again that I'm scummy with no reasoning, and that's your "interrogation lamp?" And now I'm "flailing?" Like what even is this post?

847 reads super defensive and flaily and you're still literally saying nothing of importance in your defence, just talking about how there's "no reason for a scumagenda" and how you're not scum etc etc

[Skygazer]

It seems like you're under the impression that if you just say things over and over (sky is scummy because she's scummy, I'm not scum because I'm not) that it'll somehow rally people behind you.

[the worst]

HWS after our last game how are you voting HitAlt here? Like scum!me literally outlived town!Hit in a perfect scum loss because he deathtunneled me and full derped on gamestate.

He actually feels markedly less scummy here than in sharing is caring? and I was scum that game?

[the worst]

I don't even think I'm pocketed here. The issue w him is literally playstyle o.0

[HitAlt]

Duck is correct again.
But I'm fine with people not seeing past that - it seems to be rather common on this site.
Meaning that it's my own fault for posting in a way that people generally scumread.
All I hope for is that people would try to separate unconventional scumhunting from scum-agendas.
It's not that hard to do really.

I also have my reasons for not being too set on my reads until I feel certain.
I can be a pig-headed tunneler when I spot a scumtell, but until then this is how I generate and draw content. (would like to point out that this has already brought out an immense amount of discussion that should help sorting once flips come along)

[HeWhoSwims]

I townread himin that game tbh

I found him scummy here so I voted.

[the worst]

evidently, that's why I asked

can you elaborate a little on what you find the notable differences to be? The only difference I see is he's less tunnelled lol

[HeWhoSwims]

It's not that much about differences imo I'd need to dive back into that game

[the worst]

fair. I might be slightly more attuned to his tone since I was actively trying to get town to lynch him there.

[MagnaofIllusion]

HitAlt

- This will be my last attempt to directly interact with you if you ignore this like the other attempts.

If you are Town then the Show Don't Tell principle is going to be a hurdle you as an Alt probably can't overcome without busting your alt. You can say all you want how great a scum-hunter you are and how effective your methods are but given you have a single game on this Alt. So all the arrogance of your tone falls flat.

"Tricksy traps" only work when you have well established credibility to use them. You don't. Thus I agree with the assessment from a bunch of players here that your "honey pot" looks from the outside like you are backtracking. Intellectually I get that you think a Sky Town flip indicts the quick early wagon in some manner - I agree but still include you as one of the indicted. But the manner in which you "generate content" by pure posturing means a reasonable Town player can come to the conclusion that you are scummy because you acknowledge you are drawing negative attention by playing like you do ... you are the only one with the power to change that and like NotMafia you apparently stubbornly refuse to do so.

And 847 actually looks like the closest thing to flailing I've seen this thread. That combined to the Appeal the Authority "Mathdino said I did well" (who the f*ck cares what Mathdino said about your game) is pushing me to move my vote.

I would have in this post if I didn't think Flubber was scum trying to lurk out a counter-wagon and letting you dig your own grave. So in my head I keep my vote on Flubber who I think is scum.

But you are testing my willpower.

[Taly]

Mmm.

I feel like some of my reads aren't very justified at the moment.

I read some of my games back in 2015 - I think I'm going to start tweaking my meta - having the best parts of my game 2015 and 2018 merged into a more cohesive gameplay.

Go check the situation and posting around my accused backpedaling.
My honeypot got very mild scrutiny and critique towards it in the start, and I actually got three votes on SkyG before I revealed why I had done what I did.
Now tell me this: why would I "backpedal" on those "faked scumreads" as scum?

Was your original honeypot stated as a reaction test in a way? Is that what led you to question

TW/Ausuka/Brass'

votes on

Sky

?

With some thought, I agree with 855 - I'm rethinking my scumread here, your playstyle is foreign but upon reading some of your posts, I'm not quite sure why people are pushing you to L-3.

In any case, I don't know what the benefit

Hit

-scum would have if he listed a group of people as suspect, that's a lot of heat he's pulling his way.

Is your response literally "how dare you scumread me, a player you supposedly don't know the alignment of!"

VOTE: HitAlt L-3 I think

I'm reading your ISO and I see little justification for this vote at all.

848 is also a poor response to 847 is extremely flippant.

I feel like scum would be on

Hit's

wagon at this point because the likelihood of who is in his pool

is

scum, or a townie who scum would want to survive longer.

Would vote Flubber, Talyslot, Alt, Dram, Chick, Sky. Probably would leave Taly alive above all. Maaaaybe dram.

You put 5 other people up for a potential vote but you go with the currently most-voted wagon and then don't try to figure out your reads...

Taly if you have time, can you summarize the select few reads this game what you feel the most strongly about in one post with an under 200 word count and no quotes. It would help me a lot, I have ADHD or something.

My strong read at the moment would be

MoI

for town.

Flubbernugget

for scum, but he's someone I want to recheck.

I'm liking

Ausuka

and

xyzzy

, but I'm planning to ISO them before I place them as strong town.

Brass

is a scumread I'm going to reevaluate.

which wagon is "that wagon"?

@Rask: I'd rather lynch Hit or Taly.

1)

Why is

Hit

scum to you? I don't see a lot of reasoning connected to your vote.

2)

Who is 790 directed to?

3)

Why do you reserve any opinion of my posts so far in this game?

4)

Thoughts on

Flubb

and his wagon?

I'm also planning to swoop in and take the hammer on flubber if at all possible. Because I don't get to hammer often

If you guys can get HitAlt to a hammer range, I would also hammer there.

@Inferno, who is the scum engineering this flubber wagon?

Why are you OK with hammering both? What's your thoughts on both of them and how would a lynch improve your clarity of the game?

Also, I'd appreciate you do

intent to hammer

like any other person.

~~~

Inferno

, what makes you think

Flub

is a counterwagon or scum-engingeered? Can you link posts and votes?

[Taly]

[HeWhoSwims]

How is 848 bad exactly Taly

The little justification is mostly because some off the stuff I dislike happened recently and partially because others pointed stuff out.

[Flubbernugget]

IM BACK MOTHERFUCKERS

[Flubbernugget]

Okay taly

Short answer to your challenge to me is that it's pretty obvious you voted me as the counterwagon that could save your ass

-----

Rask is town

Dramonic is probably town

Elbrin is still scum, and shame on you all for letting the "I'm blatantly acting like scum but explicitly pointing that out so it's all okay" schtick fly under the radar.

HitAlt. Awe man. In a bubble, they need to be lynched. But then I look at the context around their wagon and get super conflicted. The wagon was fast and unexplained, but that's pretty much par for the course in this game. 100% willing to compromise here towards deadline because even if they're town, lynching them devours scum of a nice slot to divert attention to them.

I'm kind of entertaining hewhoswims as scum because he's less town looking then the last time I played with him and he was actually scum that time. I'm not willing to put too much stock in that though because it's bad meta with a sample size of 1, but I'm pretty paranoid since they stumped me before.

[Flubbernugget]

Okay I'm going to do a quick skim for questions that were addressed to me and answer those. I will probabaly miss a lot so if they're still relevant to the current game state pls address them to me

[Flubbernugget]

What is your theWorst read BTW?

Okay, so this read is even worse "ew meta" than the hewhoswims read.

Basically I remember scum reading him super hard in a newbie game for coasting. But I don't remember what his alignment actually was to make whatever weak conclusions I'd be able to from that.

So the deal here is that I don't remember a damn thing he's done this game and don't really know how to sort that. That's why I'm so interested in any information you can give town on discerning his alignment. It sounds like he's got a pretty night/day Town/scum game so I'm not as concerned as the tells being out on the table causing Heisenberg issues as I normally would be.

[Flubbernugget]

Okay taly let's dance.

Your first reach out to me is in 640. You're asking about me investigating into Rask/Profii being lamist and if that flows into my scum read on Dave somehow. Right out of the gate you're spewing nonsense at me that's hiding within your seas of text.

Next in 689 you take issue with me not having solid reads when I'm far from the only one with this issue. Why is this only problematic with me? How were other players of my activity level memorable enough for you to consider them town?

You also take issue with me being suspicious of Gustavo even though he was obviously a controversial player and I came to the conclusion they were town anyway.

I'm also going to ask you a question. What posts of Elbrin's do you believe are advancing the game?

Also, despite you being able to post with lots of detail, you can't dive any deeper into my read on Dave other than "flub is wrong." This is extra bad considering a decent number of townies saw what I saw.

Oh, and rmember when you said I was Scum for having "very fluid" reads? When you give a full blown reads list in 691 you had to in several different ways excuse it as volatile. So you have to know to some extent that scum doesn't fall out of malleable reads.

The tl;dr is that you threw shit at the wall to deflect attention from your forming wagon and it's not sticking at all.

[dramonic]

1) Why is Hit scum to you? I don't see a lot of reasoning connected to your vote.
2) Who is 790 directed to?
3) Why do you reserve any opinion of my posts so far in this game?
4) Thoughts on Flubb and his wagon?

1) His entire ISO is posturing and arrogance. There's zero scumhunting, zero case, zero hard stance, zero nothing besides "Im the best, just give me til DX to prove it huehuehue". It's all white noise.
2) Broken post tag, please clarify
3) I haven't reserved any opinion? I still think you're scum (who seems to have forgotten he's voting his buddy)
4) Recent post makes me think Flubbs is town and probably just lynchbait. He's been the counterwagon to every major wagon today.

[dramonic]

oh nvm, you're on the counterwagon.
Yeah, not movin.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok, now that I have some time a grab-bag of responses since 785.

@Magna: You say that you will be able to read scum!TW solely on the idea of whether you die at night, based on a single previous experience in a game.

I cut the rest of this off because the whole premise here is so completely wrong there is no point in addressing the rest. I don’t know if you specifically have misread this in an attempt to undermine me or just have taken a left turn at Albuquerque in parsing what I said. Honestly given I have a light Town read on you given your early posting I’m not going to fret too much on which but be as clear as possible.

I never said I would read theworst based on whether I died a Night. I have said two distinct things.

1. I think duckling is a pretty easy scum read after some flips and thus feel I will be able to get a good handle on his being Town / Scum by early Day 2. This is based on a game of direct interplay where I easily sniffed him out on a quick skim upon replacement and reading other games on site that I did not play in.
2. That if I die credence should be given that theworst feels I might be able to soul read him and thus has more motivation than most of this thread (I think Andy is the only other player who would be more generally motivated to kill me based on past experience even if my reads this game are off). Me not dying N1 does not mean he’s Town and I don’t see why you somehow got to that conclusion from what I said.

Maybe this is more of the kind of thought process you showed early on with Elbirn’s scum claim.

--

profii's not a strong townread, partially because my read on him is meta.

I’ll keep this in mind. I did a quick review of his ISO in the game you mentioned and while nothing stood out to me immediately I will need to really commit to reading in depth both here and there if I choose to go the meta route.

--

I kinda just want to sheep MoI this game

I want to ask … why? You don’t strike me as someone who likes logical / wallpost players like me.

--

@profii

– You keep mentioning how the Flubber and HitAlt wagons don’t share commonality of voters. What I do want to know is what this means to you and who you are scum-reading. Your posts of late don’t really say much on that accord.

@Andy

– Glad to be of help with my profii thoughts. Were you referencing EP’s Laundry game in regards to trouble spots? If so I’m going to go re-read because I help review that set-up and did follow along as it ran.

[Inferno390]

@MoI: Ohhhh okay. Yeah, that’s just bad parsing on my part. Thanks for clearing that up. Townpoints headed your direction.

@Taly: I swear I will get to dissecting the Flubbernugget wagon before the day is over. I really need to sit down a computer to do it tho, and I have not had the chance to since The post you are referring to.

[Raskolnikov]

@Flubber 2 things

547 can you explain how exactly that expectation on dave wrt your interaction makes sense?
Dave is an analytical guy -> dave agrees with my concern about naked votes -> if he was town he would and/or should start a discussion to try to change everyones voting habits here
Going from the first two to the latter is a huge leap for me, most people would agree it's protown but unless someone does it all the time idk how you can say the lack of it is really indicative
also when in context he essentially said he'd do it if he had time so doesn't seem realistic

548 I don't like because it's more like shading chickadee than giving a stance on her. What does 1 strike against her like actually even mean