NY 213 - Game Over!

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Vaxkiller, where's your vig shot?

like, why is this assuming the a50 kill was the scum kill and not vax's shot? a50 wasn't really a townread and seems a weird nk choice to me. this moves dunn down quite a bit in my reads tbh.

[JarJarDrinks]

read all that. read still looks contrived. And it still all likes a scumread based on tone.

as for it not being fair cuz ur mobile, I dont think it's fair to ask to give u a break based on something that we only have your word for

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Are you saying that the wagon on Android was town driven?

This is the only thing that's a weird assumption for me because I don't even understand the motivation to lynch android over performer yesterday BUT Pine makes an excellent point in that the performer and android wagons existed already and only when it started to look like android might trump performer for the lynch did the performer wagon gain a lot of momentum suddenly. that's a thing that happened.

now as far as making the conclusion that it makes android scum... i dont know. it's a tough call there because then you would absolutely have to assume that it WAS town driven, which generally doesn't happen with lurker lynches. so... maybe they were both town?

also if we assume the nk was scum shot and not vig shot, then i'd be more convinced that maybe android actually is scum because i'd be thinking that's where he'd shoot. he needs to come in and tell us what happened.

i think it's more likely a50 is the vig shot and the nk was probably on the a protected townie... like, oh i dunno, the IC.

[JarJarDrinks]

if you're going to scumread me for pushing a scumread on DAY ONE and being wrong, at least show what makes you think it had scum motivation. (hint: there isn't any because I'm town)

How come now it's all "hurr durr, day one read don't mean nuttin"

BUt yesterday, on DAY ONE it was all: "perf is confscum, i'm 100% sure."

You see that's what makes your read so contrived. It was day one and you acted like performer was mod-confirmed scum.

[JarJarDrinks]

I do like ur points against Dunn though.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

read all that. read still looks contrived. And it still all likes a scumread based on tone.

as for it not being fair cuz ur mobile, I dont think it's fair to ask to give u a break based on something that we only have your word for

i'm not asking you to give me a break, i'm asking you to think a little more deeply about things and consider all aspects of the situation. i'm not going to argue with you about facts - i know why i was scumreading him and why i pushed for his lynch so strongly yesterday - he was my strongest scumread by far. whether you believe it or not is up to you. i think your depiction of my case is disingenuous. and persecuting me for scumreading people based on tone isn't a reason to scumread anyone - that is literally how i play. i'm a gut-reader. you need to separate playstyle from motivation.

i'll be confirmed town in time anyway so *shrug* you should just assume i'm town for today and help me fix my reads.

p-edit: well yeah, i was sure i was right. i wasn't. i'm a dummy. what more do you want from me? i'm doing my best.

[Ircher]

Day 2 VC #4

EspeciallyTheLies (1) - JarJarDrinks (2041)
Andriod18 (1) - Pine (1936)
Texcat (1) - Wavemode (2044)
ArcAngel9 (1) - Texcat (1987)
PenguinPower (2) - Ausuka (1960), EspeciallyTheLies (1996)
Myloninja13 (3) - Creature (1941), Dunnstral (1942), PenguinPower (1947)
Flavor Leaf (1) - Kublai Khan (1944)
Not Voting (12) - Golden Robster, Vaxkiller, Lalendra, ArcAngel9, Andriod18, Frozen Angel, Hopkirk, Gamma Emerald, Scioness Sajj, Flavor Leaf, Myloninja13, WhemeStar

Lynch Threshold

During day 2, it takes 12 votes to lynch a player.

Deadline

Day 2 ends on July 14, 2018 8:00 PM EDT (GMT-4:00) or in (expired on 2018-07-14 20:00:00).

Moderator Notes

Moderator is V/LA July 4.

EspeciallyTheLies is V/LA for an indefinite time.

If you notice any mistakes, please point them out. (That includes looking at the voting history.)

Spoiler: Current Voting History

Day 2

Dunnstral: Myloninja13 (1942)
Pine: Andriod18 (1936)
Creature: Myloninja13 (1941)
Kublai Khan: Flavor Leaf (1944)

Ausuka

: PenguinPower (1960)
EspeciallyTheLies: PenguinPower (1996)
JarJarDrinks: Andriod18 (1945) --> EspeciallyTheLies (2041)
Texcat: ArcAngel9 (1987)
Wavemode: Texcat (2044)
PenguinPower: Myloninja13 (1947)

Spoiler: Previous Voting History

Day 1

Note: * = Hammer Vote

Note: ^ = Vote after hammer vote.

Dunnstral (5):

Osuka

(77) --> Texcat (1388) --> Lalendra (1623) -->

Osuka

(1758) -->

Performer

(1782)

Srceenplay

(0): (Null)

Performer

(5):

Osuka

(623) --> TheRampage (909) --> Wavemode (1051) --> Andriod18 (1765) -->

Performer

(1849)*

Joral

(0): (Null)

Almost50

(8): Hopkirk (97) --> Edosurist (226) -->

Osuka

(390) -->

Ausuka

(1205) --> (Null) (1304) --> Vaxkiller (1352) --> (Null) (1380) --> Andriod18 (1460)
Fumuki (0): (Null)
Golden Robster (13):

Almost50

(177) --> Wavemode (183) -->

Osuka

(236) -->

Ausuka (317)

--> JarJarDrinks (319) --> (Null) (546) --> Vaxkiller (602) --> (Null) (1504) --> Wavemode (1588) --> (Null) (1589) --> ArcAngel9 (1770) --> Andriod18 (1784) --> [[ost=1798](Null) (1798)[/post]
Pine (2):

Osuka

(176) --> Andriod18 (1835)
Creature (6):

Performer

(385) --> Myloninja13 (720) --> TheRampage (813) -->

Performer

(898) --> Andriod18 (1449) -->

Performer

(1846)
Kublai Khan (6):

Osuka

(76) -->

Almost50

(122) --> Scioness Sajj (388) --> JarJarDrinks (536) -->

Osuka

(725) -->

Performer

(957)
WhemeStar (3): Lalendra (234) --> JarJarDrinks (797) --> Flavor Leaf (955)
Hopkirk (9):

Osuka

(90) --> Lalendra (279) -->

Osuka

(696) --> (Null) (993) --> Wavemode (999) -->

Performer

(1273) --> (Null) (1315) -->

Performer

(1458) --> Andriod18 (1679)
Edosurist (2): Texcat (84) -->

Almost50

(222)
Gamma Emerald (3): Vaxkiller (710) --> Wavemode (1107) --> Andriod18 (1711) --> _{(Null) (1889)^}

Ausuka

(9): JarJarDrinks (89) --> Creature (104) --> Myloninja13 (429) --> (Null) (742) --> TheRampage (743) --> Wavemode (998) -->

Performer

(1604) --> Lalendra (1624) --> Andriod18 (1680)
Lalendra (3):

Almost50

(209) --> (Null) (559) -->

Performer

(1229)
EspeciallyTheLies (2):

Almost50

(83) -->

Performer

(515)
Lovebird (1): Edosurist (259)
Davesaz (1): Wavemode (1014)
Frozen Angel (3):

Performer

(1579) --> (Null) (1606) -->

Performer

(1814)
JarJarDrinks (8):

Osuka

(85) -->

Almost50

(114) --> Charles510 (186) --> Edosurist (231) -->

Osuka

(535) -->

Ausuka

(842) --> Wavemode (1112) --> Andriod18 (1410)

Osuka

(10): Wavemode (80) --> JarJarDrinks (124) --> ArcAngel9 (229) --> Pine (332) --> JarJarDrinks (353) -->

Performer

(769) --> TheRampage (771) -->

Performer

(1047) --> Vaxkiller (1359) -->

Performer

(1384)
Texcat (4):

Osuka

(79) --> Wavemode (1080) -->

Osuka

(1703) --> Andriod18 (1777)
Andriod18 (4): Kublai Khan (190) --> Lovebird (290) --> JarJarDrinks (855) -->

Performer

(1796)
ArcAngel9 (4): Texcat (81) --> TheRampage (223) --> Texcat (604) -->

Performer

(1397)
Charles510 (2): JarJarDrinks (87) --> (Null) (310)
Vaxkiller (8): JarJarDrinks (363) --> Scioness Sajj (389) --> Andriod18 (437) --> JarJarDrinks (532) --> Golden Robster (678) --> Wavemode (1078) --> TheRampage (1085) -->

Performer

(1116)
Wavemode (5): Texcat (82) --> Charles510 (131) --> (Null) (838) -->

Osuka

(867) -->

Performer

(1108)
TheRampage (3): Creature (100) --> (Null) (509) -->

Osuka

(681)
PenguinPower (1):

Performer

(1774)
Myloninja13 (4): Edosurist (233) --> JarJarDrinks (326) -->

Performer

(1554) --> Andriod18 (1787)
Scioness Sajj (4):

Ausuka

(406) --> (Null) (1325) -->

Performer

(1552) --> Andriod18 (1760)
Flavor Leaf (1): Andriod18 (1772)

Pre-Game

Dunnstral (2): Texcat (9) --> Pine (43)

Srceenplay

(1): Andriod18 (62)
Pine (1):

Osuka

(16)
Kublai Khan (1): Pine (34)
Hopkirk (1):

Osuka

(66)
Edosurist (1): Pine (42)

Osuka

(2): Pine (28) --> Wavemode (33)
Texcat (1): Pine (44)
Wavemode (1):

Osuka

(31)

[Frozen Angel]

Vaxkiller, where's your vig shot?

like, why is this assuming the a50 kill was the scum kill and not vax's shot? a50 wasn't really a townread and seems a weird nk choice to me. this moves dunn down quite a bit in my reads tbh.

I wanna hear from vax but lol if he claims he killed A50

[Frozen Angel]

Are you saying that the wagon on Android was town driven?

This is the only thing that's a weird assumption for me because I don't even understand the motivation to lynch android over performer yesterday BUT Pine makes an excellent point in that the performer and android wagons existed already and only when it started to look like android might trump performer for the lynch did the performer wagon gain a lot of momentum suddenly. that's a thing that happened.

now as far as making the conclusion that it makes android scum... i dont know. it's a tough call there because then you would absolutely have to assume that it WAS town driven, which generally doesn't happen with lurker lynches. so... maybe they were both town?

also if we assume the nk was scum shot and not vig shot, then i'd be more convinced that maybe android actually is scum because i'd be thinking that's where he'd shoot. he needs to come in and tell us what happened.

i think it's more likely a50 is the vig shot and the nk was probably on the a protected townie... like, oh i dunno, the IC.

no android wagon was non existing. it had 2 reason-less votes. It just became something out of nowhere there - by towny people. But then people just jumped on it with no reason.

I don't get the logic behind night kill and that wagon relation

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Are you saying that the wagon on Android was town driven?

This is the only thing that's a weird assumption for me because I don't even understand the motivation to lynch android over performer yesterday BUT Pine makes an excellent point in that the performer and android wagons existed already and only when it started to look like android might trump performer for the lynch did the performer wagon gain a lot of momentum suddenly. that's a thing that happened.

now as far as making the conclusion that it makes android scum... i dont know. it's a tough call there because then you would absolutely have to assume that it WAS town driven, which generally doesn't happen with lurker lynches. so... maybe they were both town?

also if we assume the nk was scum shot and not vig shot, then i'd be more convinced that maybe android actually is scum because i'd be thinking that's where he'd shoot. he needs to come in and tell us what happened.

i think it's more likely a50 is the vig shot and the nk was probably on the a protected townie... like, oh i dunno, the IC.

no android wagon was non existing. it had 2 reason-less votes. It just became something out of nowhere there - by towny people. But then people just jumped on it with no reason.

I don't get the logic behind night kill and that wagon relation

my thinking was just that if a50 is actually the scum kill, then that means, assuming vax is telling the truth, that he was blocked by scum. well why would they do that unless they feared where he would shoot? if android was town, then why wouldn't they just let him shoot a townie and get two kills in one night? (i'm assuming here that vax would have shot the counterwagon.) but if android is scum, then there is reason to block him.

[Frozen Angel]

did vax claim he is shooting android?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

of course there's the possibility that both vax and scum shot the same target but i really dont see scum shooting a50 here. he was far from a universal townread. there's two things here where shooting a50 makes sense - 1) they thought he was a PR or 2) one of the universal townreads is actually scum, even besides the IC who was probably protected.

p-edit: no he didn't, i'm just thinking out loud to try to understand why or why not android could be scum. at the moment i'm conflicted on it.

[JarJarDrinks]

i thought vax implied he'd shoot wave.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

like, if i were scum facing a vig claim, i'd be trying to predict where he would shoot and i'd be thinking he would shoot the counterwagon. if that counterwagon was town, i'd let him go and/or shoot him. if the counterwagon was on a buddy, i'd block the shit out of him. that's where this assumption is coming from - trying to guess the scum motivations here, not necessarily vax's.

at this point there's no reason to continue speculating until vax tells us what he did.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

i thought vax implied he'd shoot wave.

i think he did say that. which is why i'm conflicted on the android wagon. if a50 was actually the scum shot, why? does it make sense to you? that scum would shoot a50 over the IC or gamma or anyone who was more widely townread?

[JarJarDrinks]

like, if i were scum facing a vig claim, i'd be trying to predict where he would shoot and i'd be thinking he would shoot the counterwagon. if that counterwagon was town, i'd let him go and/or shoot him.

not necessarily. If the counterwagon is still alive then he's still a viable lynch the next day.

[JarJarDrinks]

UNVOTE:

sign of good faith as ETL seems to be trying to sort people w/ me.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

like, if i were scum facing a vig claim, i'd be trying to predict where he would shoot and i'd be thinking he would shoot the counterwagon. if that counterwagon was town, i'd let him go and/or shoot him.

not necessarily. If the counterwagon is still alive then he's still a viable lynch the next day.

you're saying as far as what vax might be thinking? or are you saying that scum would be thinking to reserve him for today if he was town?

[JarJarDrinks]

i thought vax implied he'd shoot wave.

i think he did say that. which is why i'm conflicted on the android wagon. if a50 was actually the scum shot, why? does it make sense to you? that scum would shoot a50 over the IC or gamma or anyone who was more widely townread?

Yeah we really need to hear from vax.

[JarJarDrinks]

like, if i were scum facing a vig claim, i'd be trying to predict where he would shoot and i'd be thinking he would shoot the counterwagon. if that counterwagon was town, i'd let him go and/or shoot him.

not necessarily. If the counterwagon is still alive then he's still a viable lynch the next day.

you're saying as far as what vax might be thinking? or are you saying that scum would be thinking to reserve him for today if he was town?

yes I'm saying that scum might block a vig shooting at town if that town was a viable lynch for the next day.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

yeah. i hope he shows up soon.

what do you think of penguin?

p-edit: ah yeah ok that makes sense too.

[Frozen Angel]

a50 might have been softing something that got him killed

or that scums are the wild town read people you're talking about or that they are inactive and didn't have a good grasp of game state

[ArcAngel9]

We should get Texcat today.. they read on me make no sense.


VOTE: Textcate

[Hopkirk]

Wow there's actually no overlap on Ousuka/Performer wagons except KK who looks town.

Arc where were you before deadline?

[Golden Robster]

If both competing wagons from yesterday were on town then it doesn't matter from scum perspective except minute pedantics; both lynches were guaranteed mislynches. If one of the wagons from yesterday was on scum, wavemode or android, then it makes more sense to NK the player whose hard-pushing them.