Labyrinth Mafia (Endgame)

[Shoshin]

You think I'm a scum bodyguard? That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard, Nancy.

[Shoshin]

The scum strongman along with macho cop along with scum redirector strongly suggests that there's two town protective roles - me and you - and if you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you.

[Nancy Drew 39]

My comments about CS are scummy? What comments? He wanted to policy lynch me instead of scumhunting and his read on Angel sucked. I don't want that guy alive at LYLO.

I don’t think it at all unreasonable for him to be suspicious of your role if you survived to Lylo. His read on Angel didn’t suck. Her play and having that as a TOWN role is what did.

Logic would dictate that if you are town bodyguard, you will eventually successfully target a least one player, so it’s not at all unreasonable for him to think this.

[Nancy Drew 39]

You think I'm a scum bodyguard? That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard, Nancy.

How many Mafia games have you played? There’s nothing absurd about having a Mafia bodyguard in a game at all. Especially now, after weird Angel flip.

[Shoshin]

Nancy, help me understand what you're saying. You think Random's town because he said he was a neighbor with Chick? And you think he's town because he redirected the D1 lynch from Creature onto TPF? I don't understand you're thinking. You think all the points I brought up in my case don't make Random scum, not even when taken together? If I misunderstood you, please clarify.

[Shoshin]

I've played 100s of games mafia. I've seen a lot of crazy shit. I've seen crazier roles than Angel's, more scummy roles than Angel's, and all sorts of shit that you probably can't imagine. As I said before, mods usually help scum with some mislynch bait in role madness games like this. I once played with a town compulsive lawyer, for example (i.e. had to lawyer someone every night). So, yes, anything is possible, a mafia bodyguard is possible, but it's also unlikely. The mislynch roles go to town. Mafia get useful roles, roles that are designed to help them win the night phase of any game. And in this setup, it's very unlikely that mafia have a bodyguard (what purpose would it serve? you give mafia protection when there's a town vig, a third-party SK, and other killing threats to mafia, not when there's a vig plus townie protective/blocking roles).

Again, the mafia had a redirector. That's already a type of bodyguard if you think about it properly, a much more powerful form. It makes no sense for mafia to have a bodyguard here.

[Shoshin]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Bodyguard

Educate yourself.

[Nancy Drew 39]

The scum strongman along with macho cop along with scum redirector strongly suggests that there's two town protective roles - me and you - and if you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you.

TBG and GIF were also town protective roles and not everyone has claimed yet. If no one else claims a TPR, it would definitely help your case but if there are others? Then not so much. So everyone needs to claim role, flavour and who they targeted to get a clear perspective ok that.

We’re still waiting on Wheme, Reality and of course Taly sub but who knows how long that will take?

I think there probably aren’t anymore based on CS NK. I also don’t get your extreme survivalist mentality, considering your role. I will say this much, if we don’t lynch you today and you don’t perform any NA because you don’t feel anyone deserves it, it won’t look good.

I personally would love to be town bodyguard. It gives you a great out, if you ever want to leave the game. Your fate is pretty much in your destiny. I’m not ever going to be mislynched and now that I’m no longer a PR, very slim chance of being NKed.

[Shoshin]

TBG wasn't protective, nor was GiF. GiF actually made your role weaker than it otherwise would have been.

A mafia who can redirect vig to kill townies is pretty fucking strong. On top of that, they had a strongman? And town had a weak macho cop? There's a reason we had protective roles in the game.

[Shoshin]

Bodyguard is basically a weak redirector of night kills.

Redirector is the role that mafia had, not bodyguard. Like, I don't know why this is so difficult for you to comprehend.

[Shoshin]

If scum are smart, they'll counterclaim me. If I were scum in this game, that's what I'd do. Easy mislynch.

[Nancy Drew 39]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Bodyguard

Educate yourself.

Fair enough but then how do you account for an insane anti-town role like False Alarm? This is not a traditional game.

Also, we don’t know for sure it isn’t a fakeclaim but CS is still not wrong in his suspicions but I’m opposed to policy lynches on principle.

I would not automatically lynch you or anyone else, solely based on that. I don’t regret Angel mislynch, I regret that town wasted the entirey of D3.

Your D3 posts were as villagery as your initial D4 posts have been scummy. \_0_/

[Nancy Drew 39]

TBG wasn't protective, nor was GiF. GiF actually made your role weaker than it otherwise would have been.

A mafia who can redirect vig to kill townies is pretty fucking strong. On top of that, they had a strongman? And town had a weak macho cop? There's a reason we had protective roles in the game.

How can you possibly say TBG role wasn’t protective? He had the power to resurrect a condemned villa from the NK.

GIF is still a protective role in this game.

Nico’s role was weak? How so? The scum redirector was also the strongman but yeah scum redirecting the vig could have definitely been lethal.

Okay so if my NA on you was redirected to Sajj, what is your take on that? Why would scum want to jailkeep Sajj?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Bodyguard is basically a weak redirector of night kills.

Redirector is the role that mafia had, not bodyguard. Like, I don't know why this is so difficult for you to comprehend.

How is bodyguard a weak redirector? Creature had town redirector as his fakeclaim.

[Shoshin]

Nancy, lots of games have negative utility roles. How do I account for it? Mods put those roles in games to give scum mislynch options. Angel's role was basically a vanillla that tempts bad players to act scummy. It's nothing special.

I'm glad you oppose policy lynching on principle. I do too.

I regret Angel mislynch and I didn't even think she was scum. I could have done more to save her if I was more invested in the game, but I haven't been and that's my bad. I especially regret mislynching when I lead the lynch, so it's crazy to me that you blame Angel instead of taking this as a learning opportunity.

None of my posts are scummy. I've been wanting to lynch Random since D2. I've made my case. It's on the rest of townies to do their due diligence. I can't force you to read my case or to think deeply about why it's right, so that's on you.

My D4 posts are the same as all my posts - I came in wanting to lynch Random, I claimed my role, and I was honest about how I used it (I misjudged your ability to read honesty as towny - lesson for me this game is that I should lie about how I use my role depending on who the players are).

The question you need to ask is, Why would scum need a bodyguard if they could redirect town protective to themselves? Square a mafia redirector with a mafia bodyguard in this game.

[Shoshin]

Bodyguard is basically a weak redirector of night kills.

Redirector is the role that mafia had, not bodyguard. Like, I don't know why this is so difficult for you to comprehend.

How is bodyguard a weak redirector? Creature had town redirector as his fakeclaim.

Bodyguard theoretically redirects the night kill to itself.

[Shoshin]

TBG wasn't protective, nor was GiF. GiF actually made your role weaker than it otherwise would have been.

A mafia who can redirect vig to kill townies is pretty fucking strong. On top of that, they had a strongman? And town had a weak macho cop? There's a reason we had protective roles in the game.

How can you possibly say TBG role wasn’t protective? He had the power to resurrect a condemned villa from the NK.

GIF is still a protective role in this game.

Nico’s role was weak? How so? The scum redirector was also the strongman but yeah scum redirecting the vig could have definitely been lethal.

Okay so if my NA on you was redirected to Sajj, what is your take on that? Why would scum want to jailkeep Sajj?

I don't consider reviver a protective but I get your point. He had a 1-shot chance to make someone who was dead alive again.

GiF combined with you equals one protective, and a weak one because if either of you dies, the role is lost.

Nico's role was a macho cop, which means no protective roles work on it. Yes, that's weaker than a normal cop who we could have protected.

Scum probably had no idea you were jailkeep on N1. My guess is that they were trying to redirect cop to a townie or vig to a townie. They must have thought you were one of those roles.

[Nancy Drew 39]

If scum are smart, they'll counterclaim me. If I were scum in this game, that's what I'd do. Easy mislynch.

I don’t think your role would be the optimal couterclaim. They would also have to account for TBG, GIF and CS’ deaths. There are much easier roles to counterclaim.

[Shoshin]

If scum are smart, they'll counterclaim me. If I were scum in this game, that's what I'd do. Easy mislynch.

I don’t think your role would be the optimal couterclaim. They would also have to account for TBG, GIF and CS’ deaths. There are much easier roles to counterclaim.

I'm saying now, at this exact moment. Like, if Taly is scum, he shoud counterclaim me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Let me put this another way - I have a lot more faith in myself over CS to make the right call at LYLO.

I am also really good at lylo. I have correctly nailed scum in every game, I’ve ever survived to the end.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy, lots of games have negative utility roles. How do I account for it? Mods put those roles in games to give scum mislynch options. Angel's role was basically a vanillla that tempts bad players to act scummy. It's nothing special.

I'm glad you oppose policy lynching on principle. I do too.

I regret Angel mislynch and I didn't even think she was scum. I could have done more to save her if I was more invested in the game, but I haven't been and that's my bad. I especially regret mislynching when I lead the lynch, so it's crazy to me that you blame Angel instead of taking this as a learning opportunity.

None of my posts are scummy. I've been wanting to lynch Random since D2. I've made my case. It's on the rest of townies to do their due diligence. I can't force you to read my case or to think deeply about why it's right, so that's on you.

My D4 posts are the same as all my posts - I came in wanting to lynch Random, I claimed my role, and I was honest about how I used it (I misjudged your ability to read honesty as towny - lesson for me this game is that I should lie about how I use my role depending on who the players are).

The question you need to ask is, Why would scum need a bodyguard if they could redirect town protective to themselves? Square a mafia redirector with a mafia bodyguard in this game.

I think you are being very unfair to me here and honestly, since I thought you were the vig, I wasn’t sure you’d have vigged her and Sajj, even less so. I just wish we would have mislynched her on D2 and lynched Creature on D1. Angel was toxic to town, she aggressively pushed Nico mislynch D2 then tried to mislynch me D3.

You should never discount meta. If you flip town this game, you can claim alien pizza mortician and you’d likely get believed.

[Shoshin]

Nancy, lots of games have negative utility roles. How do I account for it? Mods put those roles in games to give scum mislynch options. Angel's role was basically a vanillla that tempts bad players to act scummy. It's nothing special.

I'm glad you oppose policy lynching on principle. I do too.

I regret Angel mislynch and I didn't even think she was scum. I could have done more to save her if I was more invested in the game, but I haven't been and that's my bad. I especially regret mislynching when I lead the lynch, so it's crazy to me that you blame Angel instead of taking this as a learning opportunity.

None of my posts are scummy. I've been wanting to lynch Random since D2. I've made my case. It's on the rest of townies to do their due diligence. I can't force you to read my case or to think deeply about why it's right, so that's on you.

My D4 posts are the same as all my posts - I came in wanting to lynch Random, I claimed my role, and I was honest about how I used it (I misjudged your ability to read honesty as towny - lesson for me this game is that I should lie about how I use my role depending on who the players are).

The question you need to ask is, Why would scum need a bodyguard if they could redirect town protective to themselves? Square a mafia redirector with a mafia bodyguard in this game.

I think you are being very unfair to me here and honestly, since I thought you were the vig, I wasn’t sure you’d have vigged her and Sajj, even less so. I just wish we would have mislynched her on D2 and lynched Creature on D1. Angel was toxic to town, she aggressively pushed Nico mislynch D2 then tried to mislynch me D3.

You should never discount meta. If you flip town this game, you can claim alien pizza mortician and you’d likely get believed.

How am I being unfair to you? You led a mislynch on Angel, you think I'm scum, and you think Random is town. You say you consistently lynch scum at LYLO but don't question why you keep ending up at LYLO (hint: you mislynch enough townies and scum don't think you're a threat). Sorry if I'm being mean but I'm just getting really frustrated with the way you're playing and I'm at the point where if I want to win this game I need you to start reevaluating what you're doing. I don't want you to hate me after this but I do want you rethinking what you're saying.

Yes, it would have been great to lynch Creature on D1. Why didn't that happen? Random manipulated you into voting TPF. Go read through that sequence of events again because that's where you're going to find scum.

Angel wasn't as toxic as you make her out to be. She was a non-entity who we could have left alive with no harm to us. Or she could have been vigged in a worst-case scenario.

As for meta, you're missing the broader point here, which is that I'm town regardless of meta because what I'm saying is towny.

[Nancy Drew 39]

If scum are smart, they'll counterclaim me. If I were scum in this game, that's what I'd do. Easy mislynch.

I don’t think your role would be the optimal couterclaim. They would also have to account for TBG, GIF and CS’ deaths. There are much easier roles to counterclaim.

I'm saying now, at this exact moment. Like, if Taly is scum, he shoud counterclaim me.

Well it would be great if Taly sub joined and posted ANYTHING of value.

As long as you bring him up, what is your read on him? He was right about Angel, Creature but obviously very wrong about Nico, Rennais/GIF. The jury’s still out about his other reads.

Cuz even if you’re right about random and I still don’t see him as the optimal lynch today, we know that he still has at least one partner left in the game. Who, other than random do you think is most likely to be scum and it also has to make sense that they be w/w together, so Wheme’s insistence on Chick/random is highy unlikely.

Also, why are you so certain Wheme is town and not pocketing you?

Why does Reality need to claim for him?

I think if Chick flips red, it points possibly to one of the underground peops (based on her calling any of the underground peops scummy, is “scum WIFOM”) but if she flips green, it likely clears all of them.

The only player on my never lynching list is the worst rn.

[Shoshin]

I have no read on Taly because he's been gone.

I don't know if Wheme is town and never said he was.

[Shoshin]

I don't know who's partnered with Random. I haven't given this game much thought beyond the point where I caught Random, and if I'm going to be mislynched, I'm not going to waste my time on this.