NY214: Project Pinecone (Game over! Town wins!)

[Inferno390]

@TW: Why are you defending Hit? He’s become more and more flaily the longer pressure has been applied. Doesn’t that at least trike you as somewhat scum?

[profii]

@MoI - I believe I was mistaken with that assertion - apparently Dramonic moved so I would say perhaps he is bussing Flubber and using the HitAlt wagon to get off the bus.

So I’d be ok with a dram lynch today - probably helps us deal with flubber and those wagoneers

[Raskolnikov]

100% willing to compromise here towards deadline because even if they're town, lynching them devours scum of a nice slot to divert attention to them.

Also not a fan of this. It's not even saying lynching him is fine because even if town he's playing anti-town (a reasonable stance) it's saying lynching him is fine even if town because other people would keep getting their attention diverted (thought process doesnt read town)

[Raskolnikov]

I kinda just want to sheep MoI this game

I want to ask … why? You don’t strike me as someone who likes logical / wallpost players like me.

I won't but I would as a fallback
From what I've read you're more or less the main player driving the game forward I think

[Raskolnikov]

There have been a few slots (namely Sky and dramonic), who have started more as gutreads/hunches/whatever but once you turn that interrogation-style lamp towards their faces, they start to make more and more mistakes with their trajectory..

You still haven't answered me though
Okay so they have tons of mistakes in their trajectory and you scumread them based on a mountain of evidence

How is it so hard to go into detail

and make a convincing argument then?

[Raskolnikov]

@MoI his play actually was really impressive in sharing is caring though, his reads were amazing, just he didn't work well with others.
he correctly scumread TW scum d1 and backed up really well but couldn't get him lynched, but even then compromise lynched other scum but then of course it looks like you tried to defend scum even if you were pushing another scum the whole time

What I don't get is there he still explained himself fairly well but here is more like a black box.

[dramonic]

TW steadily gainin scumpoints

[Raskolnikov]

otoh COUGH how dare you scumread me i will policy you you should just assume assume im always town COUGH

[Raskolnikov]

but probably not actually

[Flubbernugget]

547 can you explain how exactly that expectation on dave wrt your interaction makes sense?
Dave is an analytical guy -> dave agrees with my concern about naked votes -> if he was town he would and/or should start a discussion to try to change everyones voting habits here
Going from the first two to the latter is a huge leap for me, most people would agree it's protown but unless someone does it all the time idk how you can say the lack of it is really indicative
also when in context he essentially said he'd do it if he had time so doesn't seem realistic

You don't need a lot of time to say "people need to explain their votes better." Or to at least bring it up as a reason why reads are coming slow (something akin to "I'm already slow to form reads and this isn't going to help"). Or "to eveyone on X wagon, can you explain why x is scum?"

Like I'm really heavy in my case I'm the fact that I have zero expectations for Dave to change the world because yeah, he's busy.

[Flubbernugget]

100% willing to compromise here towards deadline because even if they're town, lynching them devours scum of a nice slot to divert attention to them.

Also not a fan of this. It's not even saying lynching him is fine because even if town he's playing anti-town (a reasonable stance) it's saying lynching him is fine even if town because other people would keep getting their attention diverted (thought process doesnt read town)

Can you detail the difference between the two? Diverting attention to yourself as town is anti town

[Flubbernugget]

Rask, I made a big post about a lot of taly's points against me are hogwash for the sake of sitting on a convenient cw and I'm kind of curious what you think about that

[Raskolnikov]

Can you detail the difference between the two? Diverting attention to yourself as town is anti town

Because it's less about him then and more about everyone else. It's less saying he'd be an okay lynch if town because he's playing antitown, not working with people or pushing scum agenda, and more like saying he'd be an okay lynch if town because so many OTHER people are paying him attention and scum are taking advantage of it. That's
a) more a concern you can do something about
b) seems justified as done for the sake of others and not so much to help you
and I feel like lynching someone because they're distracting people can be used to justify like any lazy lynch ever or lynching always the easiest consensus scumread.

Basically anyone who'd lynch partially on policy is still doing it primarily on scumread but then mostly because it would help themselves to have it cleared up and not deal with the play, the angle that it'd be like for the common good and protown as it'd help clear up other peoples reads feels more of a scum way of looking at the game.

[Flubbernugget]

I don't see how getting everyone to pay attention to you as town isn't pushing a scum agenda unless you're adamant about a particular lynch (which deff isn't the case here)

[Flubbernugget]

The whole distinction still ultimately feels like splitting hairs

[dramonic]

Generally scum WANTS to keep the lynchbaits around rask <_<

[Raskolnikov]

I do want taly to summarise his scumread (ideally in one post without quotes for readability)
He does sound like in 640 he was almost prepared to scumread you ahead of time for the dave vote which is kind of weird
though he's right in that your read on him is inconsistent with dave meta given you expect dave to be proactive given his lurk tendencies

if I have a concern with taly its actually how extremely self conscious he feels here rather than progression though

[Flubbernugget]

expect dave to be proactive given his lurk tendencies

Why would you ask me questions about this like they're mutually exclusive, have me explain why I think they're not, and then just continue to talk over that like they're still mutually exclusive

[Raskolnikov]

His priority seemed to be questioning you there though, but even then he asked if you could be more specific and partially acknowledged your point
idk how agreeing there is some truth to it necessitates him @ing everyone to explain votes better as a public service announcement when he didn't seem to care half as much about it as you

[Raskolnikov]

Mmm I thought taly was mostly wagoned as taly though seems it was already there from dave apart from elbirn

[Raskolnikov]

probably have to meta flubber as due diligence here

@Skygazer want readlist from you, also response to flubber answers you said you were waiting for

[Raskolnikov]

@Mod

can we get an updated VC

[Flubbernugget]

he didn't seem to care

You're so close to getting it

[Raskolnikov]

I kinda like flubber pursuing taly with some fire though there is a specific scumtype that enjoys arguing and 1v1 exchanges as scum I'd want to doublecheck. I really want taly to just make a post without any quotes in it and going in depth on his gamestate for a few sentences because tracking reads through his posts is actually pretty difficult
Flubber VS Taly and Hitalt as other leading but sort of a separate thing altogether is a really interesting and somewhat bizarro gamestate FTR given there's usually more connection between the two different things (hitalt and sky are almost isolated from most other game events)

[Raskolnikov]

Mmm deadline's sooner than I thought

@Hitalt

do you have like any thoughts at all on like flub wagon today?
Also I really don't get it, how you see your scumreads being lynched if you don't even case them.
You're defending yourself but not really actually pushing or pressuring much, I'm not sure what you're reasonably expecting is going to happen as things are going or repeating you think x should be lynched will do anything